THE GREAT CONTRADICTION

[Rens]

THE GREAT CONTRADICTION ,the evidence of the great falling away .

the great contradiction =goes ...

"Im only a sinner saved " this is actually just an excuse to keep doing one's favorite sin . self excusing rebellion against God .

you're either saved .. or.. you are a sinner . no one in heaven will be both .

make up your mind

the great falling away ... = "oh well you're only human " ...

you might be , but those who are born again of water and of the spirit of god ... are new creations in christ .

of the redeemed it says ..let the redeemed SAY SO .. those who are redeemed say .." i am redeemed ."
those who are only human .. are only human.
the mouth speaks from the abundance of the heart .

there is no forgiveness for sin without repentance
there is no repentance in rebellious continuance of willful sin .

willful sin is doing an action you already know is a sin .. and then doing it again any way .

if you dont stop doing that unrighteous work .. you display you are not of God .

its what the scriptures state .
VERY PRECISELY.

 

[Alithis]

Alithis, I have several questions for you:

1. When Paul and Peter write commands in their letters, which you have quoted at length, do you believe they are writing commands to believers or unbelievers?
2. Are you perfect? That is, are you sinless right now?
3. If your answer to #2 above is that you are not perfect, that you are not sinless, then let me ask this question: when you die and are face-to-face with God, and God asks you, "Why should I let you into heaven?", what will be your response?

first let me clarify the motive of your asking . do you presently return on a regular basis to committing a sin you know to be a sin.., an outward chosen action based on an inward fleshly desire ?

 

[Lamb]

Maybe if you answered his questions first he'll respond to you?

 

[Cassia]

Alithis how did you get that cool 'send a message' button

 

[Ackbach]

first let me clarify the motive of your asking . do you presently return on a regular basis to committing a sin you know to be a sin..,

Yes, I'm not perfect. I sometimes even sin when I know it's a sin.

an outward chosen action based on an inward fleshly desire ?

Most sin is inward, actually. The Ten Commandments often are only listing the most extreme negative (sometimes the extreme positive). For example, "Do not murder" is the extreme, outward negative of that commandment. But there are lots of other, less extreme sins forbidden in the same commandment, such as "Do not hate your brother." The vast majority of the sins I commit (and I suspect most people are the same) are all in the mind.

Now, have I answered your questions, and maybe you could answer mine?

 

[Alithis]

Alithis how did you get that cool 'send a message' button

umm i cant recall it was when i first joined and clicked the old icq button in profile and iv not figured how to click it ..i haven't had an icq account since back in 92 lol

 

[Alithis]

Reply in BLUE

QUOTE=Ackbach;54424]Yes, I'm not perfect. I sometimes even sin when I know it's a sin.

why? do you not love him ? you do know he has commanded us to repent and change our thinking dont you ?.. IFyour spouse were to come home one day and say ,im really sorry but i went and slept with another man but im sorry please forgive me i repent i love you ../ So you forgive her and then she comes home next weekend and say i did it again but im sorry i repent please forgive me ans then does it next weekend and the next .. are you going to consider her repentance to be genuine ? of course not

Ackbach: Most sin is inward, actually. The Ten Commandments often are only listing the most extreme negative (sometimes the extreme positive). For example, "Do not murder" is the extreme, outward negative of that commandment. But there are lots of other, less extreme sins forbidden in the same commandment, such as "Do not hate your brother." The vast majority of the sins I commit (and I suspect most people are the same) are all in the mind. And here in lays the greatest problem with most peoples concept . you think a thought is a sin , but a thought is that which can lead to a sin only if it is thought with intent to do a sin and then acted upon. because every willful action we do begins with a thought . but if we repent (the word means change our mind / rethink .and turn our thoughts to god instead then the action we take will reflect what it is we think about . this is why the Scriptures tell us to be RENEWED in our minds ..it means we change our thinking .we live after the spirit and we control what we choose to think and we cast down what we do not choose to think .

this is going to edify and aid you into freedom .

if you go around under the impression every thought is a willful sin then it is no wonder so many are under condemnation.
allow me to explain because many seek to interject before they ever hear it all .

lets say i look over at the kitchen sink and there is a pile of dirty dishes and i think to myself i better go wash those dishes.
so, i go and i begin washing up the dishes and while i'm doing that ... WHAM!!! a thought of vile nature has come flooding into my thoughts .. NOW
..understand this because it is the case with so many people that love the lord . lets back up the bus and re watch the scenario and see what we did and did not do .

when we looked at the dishes and decided to go and wash them . did we think to ourselves like this ..." OK, i'm going to go and do the dishes and think some vile thoughts "...Did we do that ?(if we did then we certainly are not born again because we are purposely planning to sin ) =no we did not do that ,
we just decided to go wash up the dishes ,nothing more . god is our witness .

now while we wash .. WHAM comes a thought or pattern of thought which is VILE into ouir mind .. it is a thought and an imagination which exalts itself above the knowledge of god,it is a thought and imagination of the soulish mind and flesh and devil that is at enmity with god .
We had no intention to suddenly think that thought .
So what do we DO with that thought .
the scriptures tell us

-"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.
- So there we have it .. -we do not sin because a thought we did not intend to have pops into our head without our intent to think it . that's like saying you sinned because you heard the guy next to you take the lords name in vain . Rather , we take that thought captive and demolish it .for this is the POWER we are given in the holy Spirit to do .
BUT.. if we receive that thought and entertain that thought it will grow into an action and according to the scriptures we will only do that because we want to do that action we desire to do it in the heart and if that's what our heart is filed with ,then we are not saved . (note i said heart ,not flesh.the flesh always desires the things of the flesh but the spirit the things of the spirit ) my flesh desires to sin daily .. but the spirit of God within me desire to do righteously every moment . so when an unsolicited thought comes at me .i capture it like the word of god tells us to do and also by our consciousness we know it is wrong to take that thought on board and entertain that wickedness because it will lead to a work of sin an act of unrighteousness . but if we rethink (repent) and think Gods way ,that will lead us to a righteousness action and eternal life (just as the letter to the Romans states )

so we see it is not every thought we have that is automatically a sin but what we do with each thought as to whether we love the lord Jesus who has set us free from sins power and given us the power and authority to cast down that thought and imagination that we might not act according to it . just as he states ,, "if we walk after the spirit -we will NOT fulfill the evil lust of the flesh". this is the truth . the reason people think sinful thoughts and follow them through to sinful actions is because that is what they truly love doing . they love it more then they love the lord Jesus . this is what the lord Jesus told me and when he revealed it to me i began to see it is written all through the scriptures (if you lobe me you will do what i tell you (keep my commands ) if you love me you will ... that is to say ..your will shall be toward the one you love the most . he also says ,, no man can serve two master he will cleave to one and shun the other-pp -which does he cleave to ? the one he has a preference towards . it is all through the scripture . and this truth set me free . i wanted to love Jesus more then sin and he said t me follow me and do what i tell you to do .. and so it is i am here today . Doing so .because it is impossible to DO an unrighteous act if sin by listening to and obeying the voice of the holy Spirit .


Ackbach:Now, have I answered your questions, and maybe you could answer mine?[/QUOTE]

and so now -if you have read carefully my replies in blue
i can now address your questions .

Ackbach: 1. When Paul and Peter write commands in their letters, which you have quoted at length, do you believe they are writing commands to believers or unbelievers?

what do you think ?.. he addresses the letter to the ecclesia at whatever district they are in referring to them in his letters as , the elect , the saints , the redeemed etc .

Ackbach"2. Are you perfect? That is, are you sinless right now?
lets see ... it is written that if we confess our sin he is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from ...-how much unrighteousness- ?
so do the math . of course if we the go and sin the same sin over and over then there is no longer any sacrifice for that .
And of course you will now throw out the verse .7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.… and observe .. when do we confess (admit ) our sin ? before he forgives us and cleanses us .. not after . for afterwards he has cleansed us from -- - -how much sin ?-- i do believe in both cases it says "ALL" .. now if we are cleansed from ALL unrighteousness and forgive of ALL sin ... how are we not sinless ? answer- we are not sinless if we go and sin again.
but few seem to go on and read the rest of the text .. before i say any more i encourage you to go on and read the rest of johns letter ... very very carefully and see what it says about those who are born of god and those who are not ... - to be continued .


3. If your answer to #2 above is that you are not perfect, that you are not sinless, then let me ask this question: when you die and are face-to-face with God, and God asks you, "Why should I let you into heaven?", what will be your response?
if i answer no to either of those then i deny all Christ has done upon the cross and am living in disobedient rebellion to the good news of Jesus the Christ and am lost already .
for he has said "i will perfect that which concerns you // and again he is able to present us holy and without blemish before the throne of god . nothing imperfect or sinful can enter the holy abode of God .all we need is trust and obey .to knowingly disobey is rebellion and sin ... don't be deceived and think the sinfully rebellious enter the kingdom of heaven . they don't .

..............................

 

[Alithis]

some will see it , some will bite me for it ..

 

[pinacled]

THE GREAT CONTRADICTION ,the evidence of the great falling away .

the great contradiction =goes ...

"Im only a sinner saved " this is actually just an excuse to keep doing one's favorite sin . self excusing rebellion against God .

you're either saved .. or.. you are a sinner . no one in heaven will be both .

make up your mind

the great falling away ... = "oh well you're only human " ...

you might be , but those who are born again of water and of the spirit of god ... are new creations in christ .

of the redeemed it says ..let the redeemed SAY SO .. those who are redeemed say .." i am redeemed ."
those who are only human .. are only human.
the mouth speaks from the abundance of the heart .

there is no forgiveness for sin without repentance
there is no repentance in rebellious continuance of willful sin .

willful sin is doing an action you already know is a sin .. and then doing it again any way .

if you dont stop doing that unrighteous work .. you display you are not of God .

its what the scriptures state .
VERY PRECISELY.

Calm down Alithis, And remember to be responsible.

8"When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, so that you will not bring bloodguilt on your house if anyone falls from it.

 

[Alithis]

Calm down Alithis, And remember to be responsible.

8"When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, so that you will not bring bloodguilt on your house if anyone falls from it.

except the lord builds the house they labor in vain that build it ....


not sure what your point is though .

 

[pinacled]

except the lord builds the house they labor in vain that build it ....


not sure what your point is though .

Just offering a compliment to your thread.

This house that the Lord speaks of.
Did you ever wonder if it is a tent of meeting.
Once you have learned to tabernacle the instructions of the third temple will be seen.

 

[Alithis]

no it is a spiritual habitation ... but whats it got to do with the great contradiction of the great falling away

the contradiction that states Jesus came to set you free from sin(source= bible/ Christ ) but you cant be free from sin (source=man/Antichrist)

 

[pinacled]

no it is a spiritual habitation ... but whats it got to do with the great contradiction of the great falling away

the contradiction that states Jesus came to set you free from sin(source= bible/ Christ ) but you cant be free from sin (source=man/Antichrist)

Keep yourself unspotted from the world.
The spirit of lawlessness has been at work for quite some time now. And I have been made aware of how the right hand of falsness is convincing many to give breath to the image of the beast.
They are fully intent on serving the Dragon.

Ignore them and continue studying. Allow Christ to continue his redemptive work in you. And always remember to endure.

 

[Ackbach]

no it is a spiritual habitation ... but whats it got to do with the great contradiction of the great falling away

the contradiction that states Jesus came to set you free from sin(source= bible/ Christ ) but you cant be free from sin (source=man/Antichrist)

I think that, from a biblical perspective, the distinction that needs to be made is the guilt of sin, versus the power of sin. The guilt of sin is that which would send me to hell. The power of sin is that sinful nature, which the believer still has (otherwise why would Peter and Paul give any commands to believers, as you have admitted above?), which induce him to sin. Jesus Christ, by His sinless life and perfect keeping of the law, by His death, resurrection, and ascension, has freed us from the guilt of sin once and for all. But there is still sin in our lives - it still has power in our lives. As we become more and more sanctified, more holy, that power grows less and less, and this is by the grace of God helping us to repent.

Incidentally, I do not believe just any thought is a sin. But many thoughts are sin (anger, lust, etc., which Jesus said is sin), and many thoughts (of a believer only!) can be free from sin. But no one on this earth is completely free from the power of sin until they get to heaven. Believers are, however, completely free from the guilt of sin.

This is part of why I find some of your comments confusing. I think you're making these two aspects of sin the same thing, and it makes you sound like a perfectionist, which I don't think you are.

 

[Alithis]

We preach of the hope we have in Christ.
people confuse such a simple thing.
if you know a certain action is sinful then you take caltive any thought of it.demolish it.and dint "Do" it.

Wonderful is it not.Jesus makes us overcomers. Not slaves to sin but masters over it.

how can that be they ask..like,how can a man be born again.. in Jesus..it is so.
Good news!!!!

 

[Ackbach]

We preach of the hope we have in Christ.
people confuse such a simple thing.
if you know a certain action is sinful then you take caltive any thought of it.demolish it.and dint "Do" it.

Wonderful is it not.Jesus makes us overcomers. Not slaves to sin but masters over it.

how can that be they ask..like,how can a man be born again.. in Jesus..it is so.
Good news!!!!

So, I asked you before if you were perfect, if you were sinless, and I can see now that this is not actually the right question to ask. Here's the question to ask: have you sinned today? Yesterday? In the past week?

Here I use the normal definition of sin as any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the Law of God.

 

[Alithis]

So, I asked you before if you were perfect, if you were sinless, and I can see now that this is not actually the right question to ask. Here's the question to ask: have you sinned today? Yesterday? In the past week?

Here I use the normal definition of sin as any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the Law of God.

Motive.. if i had or had not..would it excuse anyone else for thier own?nope..
if i say no..some here will cry foul and say..but you spoke harsh in such and such a post..and it wasnt nice,you sinned they cry(as if it excuses them thier sin) but sin is not defined by the opinions of others but by the conviction of the holy spirit who is holy and just and only speaks what the father is saying. He knows iv spoken his truth in as much as it is revealed to me. And that it is love to speak the truth even if uncomfortable to the hearer.there is no law of god against love.
so has the holy spirit convicted me of breaking the prrfect law of God this week..nope.
has he admonished and guided me ,taught me and corrected me in areas of my life that need perfecting..YES..
sin would be to refuse his correction.as that would be rebellion.we dont rebel against one we love.

 

[visionary]

I think that, from a biblical perspective, the distinction that needs to be made is the guilt of sin, versus the power of sin. The guilt of sin is that which would send me to hell. The power of sin is that sinful nature, which the believer still has (otherwise why would Peter and Paul give any commands to believers, as you have admitted above?), which induce him to sin. Jesus Christ, by His sinless life and perfect keeping of the law, by His death, resurrection, and ascension, has freed us from the guilt of sin once and for all. But there is still sin in our lives - it still has power in our lives. As we become more and more sanctified, more holy, that power grows less and less, and this is by the grace of God helping us to repent.

Incidentally, I do not believe just any thought is a sin. But many thoughts are sin (anger, lust, etc., which Jesus said is sin), and many thoughts (of a believer only!) can be free from sin. But no one on this earth is completely free from the power of sin until they get to heaven. Believers are, however, completely free from the guilt of sin.

This is part of why I find some of your comments confusing. I think you're making these two aspects of sin the same thing, and it makes you sound like a perfectionist, which I don't think you are.

I would like to see a thread on the differences between the quilt of sin and its effects vs the power of sin and its effects and the differences in the end result. I do not want to have this thread derailed with this rabbit trail.

 

[pinacled]

The sign of yonah is a dove.

Now read the book of yonah more closely and personally.
Then then the book of sacrifices Vayikrah(God called) will also be a personal relationship with him.

 

[Alithis]

I would like to see a thread on the differences between the quilt of sin and its effects vs the power of sin and its effects and the differences in the end result. I do not want to have this thread derailed with this rabbit trail.

I think it would be circular.
Is it not simply playing with differing words about the same thing.?