THE GREAT CONTRADICTION

[Alithis]

THE GREAT CONTRADICTION ,the evidence of the great falling away .

the great contradiction =goes ...

"Im only a sinner saved " this is actually just an excuse to keep doing one's favorite sin . self excusing rebellion against God .

you're either saved .. or.. you are a sinner . no one in heaven will be both .

make up your mind

the great falling away ... = "oh well you're only human " ...

you might be , but those who are born again of water and of the spirit of god ... are new creations in christ .

of the redeemed it says ..let the redeemed SAY SO .. those who are redeemed say .." i am redeemed ."
those who are only human .. are only human.
the mouth speaks from the abundance of the heart .

there is no forgiveness for sin without repentance
there is no repentance in rebellious continuance of willful sin .

willful sin is doing an action you already know is a sin .. and then doing it again any way .

if you dont stop doing that unrighteous work .. you display you are not of God .

its what the scriptures state .
VERY PRECISELY.

 

[Josiah]

you're either saved .. or.. you are a sinner . no one in heaven will be both .

You continue with your horrible confusion of Law and Gospel.



Philippians 3:12-14, "Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." NOTE: Paul is NOT obedient, he insists that he (SAINT Paul) is the "Chief of sinners!" Paul is not looking to the Law for justification but for his life as one who is justified. And he "presses on" (accepting the call of the Law to PERFECTION) not so that He might be saved.... not so that God will love him.... not so that he will become God's own.... but because he IS loved, IS God's own - this has to do with the life of the justified, not the cause of justification. Paul IS forgiven/justified/saved because of the Lamb (the Incarnation, the Cross, the Empty Tomb) and Paul IS "chief of sinners" because he is sinful.

make up your mind

No, just embrace Christianity. We have the SAVIOR, who FORGIVES. Since you want to abandon the Gospel and just embrace the Law (albeit SO watered down as to be unrecognizable - necessery to make yourself feel good about yourself), then there is no forgiveness and thus you have embrace the soteriology of modern Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism: you gotta be gooder. Problem is: in spite of your redefining the Law to next-to-nothing, you ain't the good you like to claim. You insist on looking in the mirror rather than to the SAVIOR, but the mirror you have is so rose-colored and so distorted that you aren't looking at the real you.



See

http://www.christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?1900-LAW-and-GOSPEL

http://www.christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?1726-Justification-By-OUR-works-or-CHRIST-S-works





.

 

[Josiah]

.


There are some who are enemies of Law and Gospel - those who need to belittle, water-down, confuse and entangle the two in order to engrandize self and diminish Christ.



The LAW:

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."

There are at least 613 laws specifically written just in the Old Testament. We think often of the Ten Commandments but actually there are many, many more just in the OT - and still more in the NT.




What does the Law mandate? Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."




The word "sin" literally means "to miss the mark." In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."



The LAW has two functions:

Civil - Our relationships in this fallen world. This was not given until around 1400 BC when the first Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, with a purpose of GUIDING peoples' relationships. This is very much like our own national laws - they govern relationships. Civil law does not get us into heaven, it helps us get along with others, it helps our society work better.... if everyone kept the law, this would be a nicer place in which to live and die (and eventually go to hell). This applies just as much to non-Christians as to Christians - it applies to all. The Law cannot save - and in this first use, it's not remotely its intention. Now.... true..... IF we kept all the law, we'd go to heaven (because we would not NEED God or Christ or mercy or forgiveness or salvation or justification or the Cross or the Blood - we'd not need the Gospel - because we'd essentially be God: divinely perfect, divinely holy, divinely loving..... totally, absolutely..... 100%....... 24/7...... but then in that case, we'd not need the civil law because we'd be perfect - in nature, in being, in attitude, in thought, in word, in deed. We can NEVER achieve the Law (and we don't). Like Paul, we must confess that we are "CHIEF OF SINNERS" and that we are not - not - perfect as God demands.... but we CAN press on toward that. Why? Because Jesus was a joke and Christianity is wrong - we gotta save ourselves? WE save SELF via the Law - by being absolutely 100% perfect just as God is perfect? Nope. We press on toward that because our life and our world would be a whole lot better off. And because it pleases God whom we love.


Theological - Our relationship to God. This is to drive us to our knees, to drive us to despair, to accuse us, to drive us to God's MERCY, God's HEART, God's FORGIVENESS..... to reveal the need for a Savior, a Cross. We CANNOT and ARE NOT what God intends and commands. That NO ONE is righteous..... NO ONE is good..... every other religion on the planet is fundamentally wrong because we cannot clean up our act and become what God mandates: absolutely perfect, absolutely holy, absolutely loving.... if anyone CLAIMS to be without sin (to always hit the mark), well.... to be blunt..... they LIE and DECEIVE themselves (but no one else - least of all God!). We are SINNERS! We MISS THE MARK! We are FALLEN! We need SALVATION, MERCY, JUSTIFICATION... IF we look to the LAW as the tool of salvation, ALL that happens is that we get slapped down - completely, totally, every time. (Note: THIS is why people want to water down the law SO MUCH as to make it unrecognizable, insulting God and the Law - all to make it so that we can boast "but I keep the Law - I don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Blood, no mercy - I got ME!!!" All as an enemy of Christ, a destroyer of the Gospel, all in an attempt to substitute the theology of Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism in place of Christianity - to promote THEIR soteriology which is "Self saves self although because of the TIME and HELP which God provides") The theological use is to ask ourselves, "Am I all that God commands?" The only reasonable answer is: "NO!" And thus to flee to the mercy seat of God, the heart of God..... He who says "Yes" the Bible specifically says is a "fool" and is a "liar"

BOTH of these functions continue after justification..... we are STILL called to be absolutely, divinely PERFECT, we are still called to live civilly in society; indeed Christians have unique commands: to love EXACTLY as Christ did, to LIVE exactly as Christ did, to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people, etc. The Law doesn't disappear or get watered down to nothing (as some Christians insist) when we are justified... but it also has nothing to do with our justification just because we are justified.





The GOSPEL


What is the Gospel? It is the heart of God, the mercy of God, what God has done FOR us, the gifts from God, the promises of God - all in view of CHRIST alone: the Cross, the Blood, the Empty Tomb.


Galatians 2:21, "If justification were through the Law then Christ died for no purpose."

Philippians 3:9, "Not because of our works, lest anyone can boast."

Romans 3:20, "No human being will be justified in God's sight by works of the Law."

First John 4:10, "Not that we love God but rather that He loves us."

First John 4:8, "God is love."

John 3:16, "For God so (unconditionally) love the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life."

Romans 5:8, "God shows His love for us in that while we were enemies of God, Christ died for us."

First John 2:2, "Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins."

Titus 3:5, "God saves us not because of our deeds of righteousness but rather in view of His own mercy."

Romans 6:23, "The free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing but rather it is the free gift of God."

John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."



This Gospel also applies to our lives as Christians....

Hebrews 13:5, "I will never leave you or forsake you."

First John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, God is faithful to His promise and will forgive our sins."

.... and so VERY much more.... all entirely because of the heart of God, the unconditional love of God, the mercy of God.... in view of the Lamb, the Blood, the Cross, the Christ, the Savior.




The Law does not negate or cancel or diminish the Gospel.... nor does the Gospel negate, cancel or diminish the Law... both are real, both are true, both stand in ALL their force and truth... and they can only accomplish their task if we allow them to stand FULLY - not watering them down, not confusing them, not entangling them, not misapplying them. A Christian (one who is justified, narrow - by Christ ALONE, by the SAVIOR, via the Cross, because of the Gospel!) is still called to absolute, total, divine perfection, holiness, obedience, love... still called to always, perfectly HIT THE MARK, right on, every time, 24/7, as much as God does, in our nature, our being, our attitude, our thoughts, our words, our deeds: both for civil reasons AND so that we realize we fail and need Gods' mercy. We strive forward because we love God and because this is the will of God..... but we never fully attain it, we miss the mark, we fall short more often and more greatly than we realize. And so, thanks be to God, the Gospel remains (FULLY, completely, in all its' power and force and beauty): God is merciful, God forgives, because of the Lamb, because of the Cross, because of the Blood, because of His unconditional love, because of His Son, because there is the SAVIOR - Jesus Christ.


By the Law, we ARE sinners.
By the Gospel - via the Blood/Cross - we ARE forgiven/saints.
It's not a contradiction, it's Christianity.




- Josiah






.

 

[Alithis]

You continue with your horrible confusion of Law and Gospel.


No, just embrace Christianity. We have the SAVIOR, who FORGIVES. Since you want to abandon the Gospel and just embrace the Law (albeit SO watered down as to be unrecognizable - necessery to make yourself feel good about yourself), then there is no forgiveness and thus you have embrace the soteriology of modern Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism: you gotta be gooder. Problem is: in spite of your redefining the Law to next-to-nothing, you ain't the good you like to claim. You insist on looking in the mirror rather than to the SAVIOR, but the mirror you have is so rose-colored and so distorted that you aren't looking at the real you.

highlighted in red your personal attacks and false accusations for the mods to take note of as to why i reply to you harshly at times .

you scream law and gospel .. i just repeat what the bible says . if you don't like to you didn't have to come in the thread .

'm not judaism - false accusation
i'm not islam - false accusation
i'm not hindu - false accusation
i'm not preaching ANY LAW other then the law of the spirit of life in christ Jesus - false accusation
the gospel sates repent , be baptised and recive the holy Spirit

i have not abandoned the gospel - another false accusation .
your entire post is a blatant personal attack filled with false accusations .

 

[Josiah]

.


Looking in the mirror for one who is obedient, sinless is the soteriology of modern Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism.
Looking to the Cross (to the SAVIOR) for forgiveness is Christian.




In Justification, there are two places to look/trust/rely: the mirror (Judaism, Islam, Bhaki Hinduism) OR the Cross (Christian)

Answer this: WHO is the SAVIOR? Answer that in your own heart.

IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation is entirely, wholly wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. Not your obedience, not your righteouness, not your prayers or repentance or decisions, not your perfections, not your surrendering, not your anything, not YOU. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you.

IF you answer "ME!" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you.

Which is it? Try answering that - clearly - in your heart and mind and soul. If you give the Christian answer, a LOT of Christianity falls into place. If you give the Christian answer, this horrible confusion you perpetually promote here at CH ... this call away from Christ.... will end.


By the Law - we ARE sinners. We are with Saint Paul, the CHIEF of sinners (SAINT Paul states that, by divine inspiration, in the present tense) We are DISobedient, UNrighteous, sin.
By the Gospel - we ARE forgiven/justified. We are with Saint Paul, forgiven, heaven-bound, justified.
It's not either/or, it's both/and. It's NOT a "contradiction", it's Christianity.



See post # 3.




- Josiah




.

 

[Alithis]

.


Looking in the mirror for one who is obedient, sinless is the soteriology of modern Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism.
Looking to the Cross (to the SAVIOR) for forgiveness is Christian.




In Justification, there are two places to look/trust/rely: the mirror (Judaism, Islam, Bhaki Hinduism) OR the Cross (Christian)

Answer this: WHO is the SAVIOR? Answer that in your own heart.

IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation is entirely, wholly wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. Not your obedience, not your righteousness, not your prayers or repentance or decisions, not your perfections, not your surrendering, not your anything, not YOU. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you.

IF you answer "ME!" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you.

Which is it? Try answering that - clearly - in your heart and mind and soul. If you give the Christian answer, a LOT of Christianity falls into place. If you give the Christian answer, this horrible confusion you perpetually promote here at CH ... this call away from Christ.... will end.


By the Law - we ARE sinners. We are with Saint Paul, the CHIEF of sinners (SAINT Paul states that, by divine inspiration, in the present tense) We are DISobedient, UNrighteous, sin.
By the Gospel - we ARE forgiven/justified. We are with Saint Paul, forgiven, heaven-bound, justified.
It's not either/or, it's both/and. It's NOT a "contradiction", it's Christianity.



See post # 3.




- Josiah




.

actually paul says .. you "were ... " not you are

this is not the first time your spoken things only to show your not speaking the scriptures correctly // you even told me "the words "obey and gospel- never appear in the bible together lol- then i had to show you this verse-" when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8in blazing fire. He will inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might,…


now your misquoting paul ,

he says
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. ... note in every reference he is using the past tense

nither the apostles or the disciples continue living that way .. they had died to the old man . and lived as ones who are dead to sin but live to christ .

nice try though .. but nope .

 

[Alithis]

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

and note the present tense he uses here.

 

[Alithis]

and he says to the ephesians...


So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.

20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 “In your anger do not sin”[d]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.

 

[Alithis]

peter joins him in full agreement writing

Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.

note again when they speak of sin they speak in the past tense and the only time the speak of it in the present tense is when they are rebuking those doing it .

he goes on to say

Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

and we see that obedience to the truth -purifies us . - i didn't say it .. there it is written in plain scripture .

----
then he goes on more and says

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind... and again he is consistent with this pattern that WE must do the obeying . it is not automated .

 

[Alithis]

then PETER whoie edifying and admonishing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit quotes this text ,(also written under inspiration of the holy Spirit )

“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11 They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.

the pattern of obedience remains 100% consistent

 

[Alithis]

and he summerises saying ---- Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. 2 As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you( sounds familiar lol ). 5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

so we see again consistency in obedience and consistency in the preaching of CEASING SIN

and then we can get into what John has to say and see his agreement with paul and peter is absolute .

 

[Josiah]

and he summerises saying ---- Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. 2 As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you( sounds familiar lol ). 5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

so we see again consistency in obedience and consistency in the preaching of CEASING SIN

You deleted words of Scripture and their place, in their stead, in lieu of them, inserted YOUR words "ceased sin."

And you continue your perpetual appeal to look away from Christ and into the mirror.... your dangerous confusion of Law and Gospel, sanctification and justification, self and God. With the result of abandoning the central point of Christianity.


Read posts # 2, 3 and 5.




- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

You deleted words of Scripture and their place, in their stead, in lieu of them, inserted YOUR words "ceased sin."

And you continue your perpetual appeal to look away from Christ and into the mirror.... your dangerous confusion of Law and Gospel, sanctification and justification, self and God. With the result of abandoning the central point of Christianity.


Read posts # 2, 3 and 5.




- Josiah

I post 6 posts of scripture and you refuse scripture ... And i deleted nothing .
If you go and open your bible youll see all the words are still there.

My inserts are
,making commenting lol.
And those scriptures are only a start.. Im warming up

 

[Alithis]

Paul remains in full agreement while talking to the corinthians.."

"....What fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever? What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Therefore “‘Come out from among them, and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you. I will be to you a Father. You will be to me sons and daughters,’ says the Lord Almighty.” Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God ".

.showing further how it is us,by our will to abide in the new nature of christ within ,that are to stop doing unrighteousness by instead..doing what is righteous.becaseu he has both set us free and empowered us by his holy Spirit to do so .. if you dont have the spirit of christ you are not christ's. and then it would be no wonder that you can't stop doing sin you know to be sin.. your not saved from it yet . you need to be born again .

 

[Alithis]

paul also points out to titus .... saying

Unto the pure all things
pure: but unto them that
are defiled and unbelieving
nothing pure; but even their
mind and conscience is defiled.

and then he says why

They profess that they know
God; but in works they deny
, being abominable, and
disobedient, and unto every
good work ,reprobate.

so we see again and again it is not those who "say" they are righteous but those who DO what is righteous and thus DISPLAY they are . not just lip service .
we also know that scripture says , this is how we know who is of god and who is of the devil .. those who Do righteously and those who do unrighteously . -nothing is automated .

 

[Josiah]

Yup. Law AND Gospel. But not the entangled, confused, mixed-up, blended, extremely watered down mess you perpetually preach - all the destroy and denounce the foundational, keystone point of Christianity: Jesus is the Savior (and thus, NOT you). Jesus saves (and thus not you). Jesus' works, love, obedience, sinlessness, surrendering, deciding is the reason we are saved (not mine, not yours). If you would hold to the LAW in all it's fullness (instead of the nearly worthless, meaningless, watered down to next to nothing that you do)..... AND hold to the GOSPEL in all its fullness (not the Bhakti Hinduism substitutions).... then Christianity will shine, Christ will be the Savior, and you will come into biblical, confessional, orthodox Christianity.


Answer this: WHO is the SAVIOR? Answer that - clearly, definitively, singularly - in your heart.

IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you, not me - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation is entirely, wholly, completely, sufficiently wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. Not your obedience, not your righteouness, not your prayers or repentance or decisions or invitations, not your perfections, not your surrendering, not your anything, not YOU. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you.

IF you answer "ME!" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you.

When it comes to salvation (justification in the narrow sense) you have two places you can look/trust/rely: The Cross or the mirror. Who is on the Cross, who is in the mirror.

Which is it? Try answering that - clearly, distinctively, definitively, singularly, boldly - in your heart and mind and soul. If you give the Christian answer, a LOT of Christianity falls into place. If you give the Christian answer, then the central point of Christianity is affirmed and all of Christianity comes into focus. True: you too will join with all Christians over the past 2000 years embracing a bit of mystery (we can't wrap our puny, fallen brains around EXACTLY all the DETAILS of HOW Jesus saves) but that's okay.... better to deny we've totally wrapped God around our sinful, fallen brain than to destroy the keystone of Christianity.

NOTHING is more important.



To your question: There is no Christian contradiction at all.
By the Law - we ARE sinners. We are with Saint Paul, the CHIEF of sinners (SAINT Paul states that, by divine inspiration, in the present tense) We are DISobedient, UNrighteous, sin.
By the Gospel - we ARE forgiven/justified. We are with Saint Paul, forgiven, heaven-bound, justified.
It's not either/or, it's both/and. It's NOT a "contradiction", it's Christianity.



See posts # 2, 3 and 5


Pax soli CHRISTI

Solus CHRISTUS




- Josiah




.

 

[Lamb]

Yup. Law AND Gospel. But not the entangled, confused, mixed-up, blended, extremely watered down mess you perpetually preach - all the destroy and denounce the foundational, keystone point of Christianity: Jesus is the Savior (and thus, NOT you). Jesus saves (and thus not you). Jesus' works, love, obedience, sinlessness, surrendering, deciding is the reason we are saved (not mine, not yours). If you would hold to the LAW in all it's fullness (instead of the nearly worthless, meaningless, watered down to next to nothing that you do)..... AND hold to the GOSPEL in all its fullness (not the Bhakti Hinduism substitutions).... then Christianity will shine, Christ will be the Savior, and you will come into biblical, confessional, orthodox Christianity.


Answer this: WHO is the SAVIOR? Answer that - clearly, definitively, singularly - in your heart.

IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you, not me - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation is entirely, wholly, completely, sufficiently wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. Not your obedience, not your righteouness, not your prayers or repentance or decisions or invitations, not your perfections, not your surrendering, not your anything, not YOU. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you.

IF you answer "ME!" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you.

When it comes to salvation (justification in the narrow sense) you have two places you can look/trust/rely: The Cross or the mirror. Who is on the Cross, who is in the mirror.

Which is it? Try answering that - clearly, distinctively, definitively, singularly, boldly - in your heart and mind and soul. If you give the Christian answer, a LOT of Christianity falls into place. If you give the Christian answer, then the central point of Christianity is affirmed and all of Christianity comes into focus. True: you too will join with all Christians over the past 2000 years embracing a bit of mystery (we can't wrap our puny, fallen brains around EXACTLY all the DETAILS of HOW Jesus saves) but that's okay.... better to deny we've totally wrapped God around our sinful, fallen brain than to destroy the keystone of Christianity.

NOTHING is more important.


See posts # 2, 3 and 5


Pax soli CHRISTI

Solus CHRISTUS




- Josiah




.

You know what I love about this post? That's it's all about Jesus our Savior from beginning to end. Completely biblical with Law and Gospel distinguished properly. You proclaim the truth about the Savior who saves! You proclaim the truth about the God working in us!

Not one word of arrogant ME (or YOU in your case) is in your post. It shines because you let Jesus shine. That's Christianity, the truth about Jesus the Christ who redeems.

 

[Alithis]

you know what i like about all the other posts .. they are the scripture.

 

[Alithis]

the righteousness of god in Christ Jesus is attributed to us .., credited to us, .. by faith to a person's life ..

do we know it by their sinful works they do ?.. hmm nope jesus never did any of those and he was a man as we are .
he walked ,he talked, he ate food ,slept , relieved himself , yawned , farted , burped after a meal (not necessarily rudely, but its what happens when one has gas)
?but he did NOT cheat people ,rob ,lie steal ,commit adultery , bear false witness , covet his neighbors things , defraud any one , make statues and venerate them . for those are things people DO .. out ward exertions from inner choice - "works of iniquity" how do we know Jesus was righteous ? because he 'said he was " ?or by the WORKS he did .
? it is BOTH .

John is pointing this same thing out in 1 john ch 3 . he says .. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

so we see it is not only saying a thing ,but the doing of it that displays whether the saying of it is genuine or feigned . Jesus said he was the son of god ,, but he SHOWED he was by the Works he did .

many "SAY' they are the children of God,but their works (or lack of them ) show other wise .

 

[Ackbach]

Alithis, I have several questions for you:

1. When Paul and Peter write commands in their letters, which you have quoted at length, do you believe they are writing commands to believers or unbelievers?
2. Are you perfect? That is, are you sinless right now?
3. If your answer to #2 above is that you are not perfect, that you are not sinless, then let me ask this question: when you die and are face-to-face with God, and God asks you, "Why should I let you into heaven?", what will be your response?