Church... A word of pagan origin -

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Alithis

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http://andrejao.com/church/

At the above link you will find a straight forward,Well laid out explanation of why, in english, we use the term "church" ...and how warped and distant that is from the original word in the scriptures.

Some here wont like it at all.
 

visionary

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Congregation might be more comfortable term.
Synagogue might be a more accurate term.
 

psalms 91

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Yup synagogue is much more accurate
 

Alithis

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Yup synagogue is much more accurate

Assembly is fine too i think .
The point being... People with one spirit (holy) gathered in one place (not any specific place .could be different everytime) for a united purpose (involved no building structure nor reliance on one) equally mutual and benificial to all.(no hierachy of one being over another ) no umbrella..,no control... No man made format... An unstoppable living breathing entity lead by the holy Spirit.
 

Josiah

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At the above link you will find a straight forward,Well laid out explanation of why, in english, we use the term "church" ...and how warped and distant that is from the original word in the scriptures.


The word "word" is of pagan origin.
The word "origin" is of pagan origin.
The word "the" is of pagan origin.
Every single word is your post is of pagan origin.
Nearly every word of every language on the planet is of pagan origin, including Hebrew and Koine Greek (the pagan languages in which the Bible was originally penned)


Do you have a point?



.
 

Lamb

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Should we all start speaking Hebrew and Greek now?
 

visionary

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Good thing God speaks all languages. Good thing He looks at the heart too. It is not the language that makes it evil. It is the heart's intent that does.
 

pinacled

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The word "word" is of pagan origin.
The word "origin" is of pagan origin.
The word "the" is of pagan origin.
Every single word is your post is of pagan origin.
Nearly every word of every language on the planet is of pagan origin, including Hebrew and Koine Greek (the pagan languages in which the Bible was originally penned)


Do you have a point?



.

Excellent point up until you stated hebrew is pagan.

Of course I have heard much debate concerning this in the academic circles. I believe it's important to learn hebrew before making such a claim.
 

Alithis

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Josiah and lammach were not addressing the topic or the article.theirs is a personal dig at me.
I would prefer the replied in a manner that showed evidence they read the link. I know you think the lutheran is the be all and end all . but it aint ..Jesus is .and doesnt attend a denomination.read the article.
 
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Josiah

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Excellent point up until you stated hebrew is pagan.

Of course I have heard much debate concerning this in the academic circles. I believe it's important to learn hebrew before making such a claim.


Do you believe God invented all the words in Hebrew and taught the vocabulary to people?
 

Josiah

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Should we all start speaking Hebrew and Greek now?

No evidence God invented all the vocabulary in those two (but only those two) languages....
 

Alithis

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haha stop trying to derail the thread .. address the topic - read the article first .
 

Lamb

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No evidence God invented all the vocabulary in those two (but only those two) languages....


When Adam and Eve fell, do you think they were the first pagans since they turned from God? What language did they speak?

The point is that so what if a word has pagan origins. A lot of words have derived from other languages and cultures. Doesn't it matter more as to what the word now says?

The word "gay" used to be used in a totally different manner than how we see it now.


Word meanings change over the course of time. It happens.
 

Alithis

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Good grief - read the article.
 

Lamb

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Perhaps you would be so kind as to snip some of the text from the article since you feel the conversation isn't going where you intended?
 

Alithis

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The article linked in the op ..this is it.

Warning: This tiny post can mess with your head!

In this blog post I will do three things: Firstly, I will give you a very quick and simple study on two words, the English word “church” and the Greek word “Ekklesia”. Secondly, I share a tiny bit of history. Thirdly, I will tell you why it matters – and what to do about it. In the end, I link to resources for you to see if it’s all true.

Here we go!

Church and Ekklesia
Every word in the New Testament is translated from a Greek word. Behind the word ‘church’ in your English Bible translation, you find the Greek word ‘ekklesia’.

The English word ‘church’ could origin from several different places, for example:

“kyriakon”, used of houses of Christian worship
“kyriake oikia/doma”, meaning the “lord’s house”
“Cirice” referring to a place of worship
The Greek word ‘ekklesia’ is a Greek word meaning “a group of people who come together with a purpose”.

Now you might think: “Wait a minute! Didn’t you just say that ‘ekklesia’ is an assembly of people and ‘church’ is something with places and houses?”

Yes, I did.

Your next thought might be then: “Why then do we translate ‘ekklesia’ with ‘church’ when it’s clearly not the same thing?!“

Let me tell you.

History time
The word ‘church’ wasn’t in the first English Bible translations made from the original Hebrew and Greek (the Tyndale from 1524) . Except in two places where ‘church’ meant a place of idol worship.

Then King James authorised a new Bible translation. He made 15 specific rules for this new translation. Number three was: use the word ‘church’ when translating ‘ekklesia’.

Now, why on earth would anyone make a specific rule about this?!

My guess? Because using ‘church’ meant control of structures and traditions of the institution in a way not possible if ‘ekklesia’ was allowed to be translated into something meaning people gathering anywhere, anytime and in any way with the purpose of serving Jesus, e.g. ‘assembly’ or ‘congregation’.

Does it matter?
Now, some would say: “Oh, but does this really matter? Don’t we all understand what church means?” Yes, it matters, and no, people don’t understand. Today, a majority of people in the West envision a church being the building you go to on Sundays and the activities of listening to the priest preach, sing songs and pray – and maybe pay tithe to support it all.

If we think that Jesus talked about this when saying: “I will build my ekklesia”, we are grossly misinterpreting the Word of God.

Jesus did not talk or care about buildings and programs. See, Jesus talked very little about “ekklesia” – only three times, all in Matthew. And he most certainly never talked about “church” as defined above.

Yet, we are occupied with a church-planting, -planning, -meeting, -structure, -system, -activities and a lot of other church stuff. And every week new books about new ways of planting, growing and multiplying house churches, mega churches, organic churches and other churches are published.

What then?
What does this mean for you then? It means: get rid of the guilt. If you ever felt guilty about not showing up for a church meeting, not financing the church building, worrying about the lack of church growth or other things of the sort – then stop. Jesus never asked you to do this.

Remember, Jesus said that he would grow his assembly of believers. Not us. We are to make disciples – and stop worrying about God doing His job properly. Anytime, anywhere and in any way you fellowship with like-minded believers who obey Jesus, you are “ekklesia”; exactly what Jesus talked about.

Try this small exercise from here on: substitute ‘church’ with ‘fellowship’ or ‘assembly’ every time you read it in your Bible or hear it spoken. It will change your perspective on your Christian life – and makes perfect sense.

If this was interesting or you have something to share and add to it, let me know in the comments below. And please do share this.

Blessings,
André Jao

------
i cant contact Andre at present (he is visiting he states at present working on the next lastreformaton movie (the life) but i'm sure he wont mind me posting all this for discussion .
this is his blogsite http://andrejao.com/ -when i get in touch with him i will remove it if he requires it . but i'm confident he won't mind .

it has a few very good, short articles, on it .challenging dead traditions of differing types . read the "about me ' section for more background .
 
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amadeois

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My take:
Lazy people don't like to read and they keep themselves UNINFORMED on the subjects at hand and then they say: I believe in Jesus and they don't even know nothing about Him

If you want to know Jesus, you need to read, understand and comprehend the entire Bible.

The Bible is the WORD OF GOD and represents JESUS.

The Bible I have is 1,044 pages long.

Haven't we read more pages than that in our lives?

That is the way you learn.

Please don't complain and go to it.

A friendship is a personal relationship with the other person.

Hearing it from another person, does not make you a friend with the person they are talking about.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW AND BELIEVE IN JESUS, I SUGGEST YOU TO DO THE WORK YOURSELF.

IS YOUR FRIENDSHIP.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
 

Alithis

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My take:
Lazy people don't like to read and they keep themselves UNINFORMED on the subjects at hand and then they say: I believe in Jesus and they don't even know nothing about Him

If you want to know Jesus, you need to read, understand and comprehend the entire Bible.

The Bible is the WORD OF GOD and represents JESUS.

The Bible I have is 1,044 pages long.

Haven't we read more pages than that in our lives?

That is the way you learn.

Please don't complain and go to it.

A friendship is a personal relationship with the other person.

Hearing it from another person, does not make you a friend with the person they are talking about.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW AND BELIEVE IN JESUS, I SUGGEST YOU TO DO THE WORK YOURSELF.

IS YOUR FRIENDSHIP.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

And your thoughts on the article?
-Now posted above-
 

Lamb

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It seems to me like someone (the author) who got burned in "church" and needed to throw in a hate blog ;)

Terminology DOES mean different things to different people. We come from different countries, different cultures, different families. It's OKAY to call it church. It's okay to call it congregation. It's OKAY to call it assembly.

Don't forget the obvious about what God said about where two or three gather in HIS NAME.
 
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