Why the need to modernize and adjust for worship?

[psalms 91]

Yes, we are called to do His works and greater works

 

[Rens]

 

[Lamb]

The task ahead is no less than what Yeshua asked of us, that He Himself did.

Trusting in what He did is what our faith grasps onto. Trusting in me is never going to get me anywhere.

Modern churches want to be too worldly and the world always focuses on self. Let's get back to the traditional church that proclaimed Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[psalms 91]

Trusting in what He did is what our faith grasps onto. Trusting in me is never going to get me anywhere.

Modern churches want to be too worldly and the world always focuses on self. Let's get back to the traditional church that proclaimed Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins.

There are many ways to do that, tradition dictates that it must be a certain way.

 

[visionary]

Trusting in what He did is what our faith grasps onto. Trusting in me is never going to get me anywhere.

Modern churches want to be too worldly and the world always focuses on self. Let's get back to the traditional church that proclaimed Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins.

Once you have grasped that concept, then you should also grasp your responsibility in response to His offer.

 

[Lamb]

Once you have grasped that concept, then you should also grasp your responsibility in response to His offer.

Do you realize your post comes across in a way that you suggest that we turn away from gazing at our Lord and Savior and what He has done and turn instead to ourselves for some navel gazing?

Come let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith.

The problem with modern churches is that they keep luring people away from Jesus and back onto themselves. Lure people to Jesus and a true response of love for God and neighbor WILL happen.

 

[Rens]

The problem with modern churches is that they keep luring people away from Jesus and back onto themselves. Lure people to Jesus and a true response of love for God and neighbor WILL happen.

Depends. They exist, but if it's modern or old fashioned doesn't say much about if it lures people away from Him or not.
Depends on what you call modern I think. If it is modern like wordly and people pleasing, yes, that's no good.

 

[Ackbach]

I think it all comes down to the main point of worship. Is worship all about the worshippers? Or is it all about God? Some might complain right here, and say I've inserted an unnecessary divide, but this is where the action is. I'm a firm believer that worship is about God. And if that's the case, it's going to inform how you do you worship. In the church I attend, it's most definitely not seeker-friendly. I would argue it's not seeker-hostile, either, as some churches have proudly maintained.

Let's take this tack (that is, worship is about God) for a while and see where it leads. Entertainment would not be terribly important in this case, right? We are to do what God wants us to do. The Second Commandment implies the Regulative Principle of Worship: you can only do in worship those things that God has told us to do in His Word. Unfortunately, despite what the exclusive-psalmody and no-instruments folks say, this does not end the discussion, because we must now carefully determine from the Bible what God has told us to do in worship. The story of Nadab and Abihu, and the story of Uzzah, show us how seriously God takes worship. We don't get to decide the main points of worship. God has already done that for us. It's important how to we do it, that it be biblical. And I would argue that the ordinary means of grace (reading the Bible, listening to the preaching of the Word, the sacraments, and prayer) are the big events. There are one or two other things as well (singing, offerings, and occasional things like reception of new members, ordination of officers, etc.) that also belong.

This short post is, of course, a summary. Worship is a deep subject, but one that fascinates me no end.

 

[visionary]

Do you realize your post comes across in a way that you suggest that we turn away from gazing at our Lord and Savior and what He has done and turn instead to ourselves for some navel gazing?

Come let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith.

The problem with modern churches is that they keep luring people away from Jesus and back onto themselves. Lure people to Jesus and a true response of love for God and neighbor WILL happen.

Do you realize that the symbolism of the snake on the stake in the wilderness relates to what I am talking about and the end result of missing the bigger picture resulted in the need to destroy the stake just to get the focus back on Him? He is not on the stake anymore. He is our Heavenly High Priest performing other tasks in the salvation process that are not finished.

 

[Lamb]

It's always God's promise that matters and yes, He is still working in us, yet He will not go back on His promise. I am assured of that and you should be too.

 

[Cassia]

I agree that the symbol of incarnation and the symbol of the cross are incomplete pictures because the 3rd symbol that makes it complete is the wind/fire that can only be seen spiritually so in the spiritual/biblical sense of true worship can only be in spirit and in truth, within the context of symbolic birth death and resurrection.

John 3:21
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be manifested that they are wrought in God.

According to the context, truth here denotes uprightness (as opposed to evil)

John 3:19-20
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil.
For every one who practices evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his works be reproved.

which the former is the reality manifested in one who lives in God according to what He is, and which corresponds with the divine light, which is God, as the source of the truth.

It's necessary to always be within that light (prayer w/o ceasing) to make what's always manifested before God into the light of understanding according to the mind of Christ. Jesus Christ is the truth/ the reality of the gospel message. He is the light to come to, the light manifested in Christ. Such is worship in spirit and truth/reality.

 

[tango]

Yes, we are called to do His works and greater works

There's just the ongoing question of whether "greater" refers to quality or quantity.

How can we do bigger and better works than the man who gave the blind sight, gave the deaf hearing, raised the dead etc, and then capped it all by defeating sin and death?

 

[psalms 91]

Then where is the church in doing what He did since we are to do greater works, seems like we are doing lesser

 

[Lamb]

Here is an excellent article about "greater works than these"
http://pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-greater-works-can-we-do.html

 

[tango]

Then where is the church in doing what He did since we are to do greater works, seems like we are doing lesser

You completely ignored the question.

If we are to do greater works (meaning bigger and better) we've got an impossible road ahead because it's hard to top someone who had the power to make the lame walk, the blind see and raise the dead. If we are to do greater works (meaning greater in quantity) then we've had 2000 years to do them while Jesus only had three.

 

[Lamb]

You completely ignored the question.

If we are to do greater works (meaning bigger and better) we've got an impossible road ahead because it's hard to top someone who had the power to make the lame walk, the blind see and raise the dead. If we are to do greater works (meaning greater in quantity) then we've had 2000 years to do them while Jesus only had three.

The article I posted makes the point that any "greater" works aren't done without our God giving input, actually helping us to do them and it's because of faith in Jesus' that we can do any works. Man tries to point to himself but God is quick to turn us back to Him. It's all about God.

 

[visionary]

There's just the ongoing question of whether "greater" refers to quality or quantity.

How can we do bigger and better works than the man who gave the blind sight, gave the deaf hearing, raised the dead etc, and then capped it all by defeating sin and death?

Yeshua said they will move mountains.

 

[tango]

Yeshua said they will move mountains.

True, but was he talking about literal or metaphorical mountains?

Raising the dead and giving the blind their sight could be see as moving mountains, no?

 

[psalms 91]

For God a simple matter, for us impossible. Truth is we need to be hearing from God when we do these things or we will make a fool of ourself and the gospel

 

[visionary]

True, but was he talking about literal or metaphorical mountains?

Raising the dead and giving the blind their sight could be see as moving mountains, no?

Both, all and whatever God so chooses it to be on different occasions and for different reasons for each. I believe Yeshua said this to open the doors for believers in their situations to be brought to mind this verse when they need to go beyond what they know has been fulfilled in the past and to ask God for the great miracles of gigantic proportions conceived by faith and asked for it. We ask too little ... we don't believe on the grand scale of things.. our faith is weak.. our connections with God are traditional paths.. and we are stuck in ruts. By faith, we need to be Elijah's... Moses' and go beyond what has been done before.