LAW and GOSPEL

[Lamb]

We have rested from our works when we have rested in his rest.

Now we do HIS works through us by obedience.
Can't sin at the same time as he is working through us. Can't have him working through us without surrendering to him obediently.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit leaves your body when you do sin?

 

[psalms 91]

I believe we grieve him when we sin and do it enough yes he willave

 

[Alithis]

Do you believe the Holy Spirit leaves your body when you do sin?

never said never implied it never brought it up- its not even a part of the topic .. . are trying to put up a strawman ?

 

[Alithis]

Poor Jesus who died for us couldn't fully grant us redemption is what I keep hearing and it's anti-Christ if I dare say because it goes against what the Christ died for and now tells you that you have to work or you can't get in? C'mon! We walk by faith means that we're already in the IN and the way out is if we turn away from him, you know? If you're there, the wrong way is the way out, not in! I'm in His hand and he keeps me there but if I jump on out then that's my fault and my problem but my staying in his hand by faith because he's working there in me to keep me in his fold. We are told to keep our eyes on Jesus but all I keep on hearing is keep your eyes on you instead and what's that gonna do but cause a concern since my faith isn't going to be in me but in Jesus.

you have strange ears then

no one has said he cant guarantee redemption
no one has said you have to work for it .

Are you keeping your eyes on jesus when you do that sin you say you cant stop doing ?
id say your not i 'd say you have to turn your back on him and his will in order to go and do that sin ..

 

[Lamb]

never said never implied it never brought it up- its not even a part of the topic .. . are trying to put up a strawman ?

I'm not trying to put up a strawman. I was asking a legitimate question because you mentioned this: "Can't sin at the same time as he is working through us. Can't have him working through us without surrendering to him obediently."

Do YOU believe that the Holy Spirit leaves you when you do sin?

 

[Josiah]

I believe we grieve him when we sin and do it enough yes he willave

I passionately disagree.

When we sin, He is our Savior. If we were perfect as God is, if we were obedient - the Fall would never have happened and Christ never would have come. Jesus told us to forgive one another "70 times 7" (meaning ALWAYS, FOREVER)..... I don't think God is less forgiving than He commands that we be. I don't think God becomes unfaithful, untrue to His promises. Ever. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and will forgive us our sins." It doesn't say, "unless our sin is too big for Him to handle" or "unless we sin too often."


Now, I agree with Bonhoeffer (a Lutheran pastor of some 60 years ago or so) who argued that it is POSSIBLE (Lutherans don't accept OSAS), POSSIBLE for one to "derail" his/her own faith and fall from faith - and one way this MIGHT happen is by people playing a game with God's heart and grace and love, so as to CEASE relying on Christ as the Savior. One sins.... then repents and believes. Does God forgive them IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ IS the Savior! We do it again. We believe and repent again. Does God forgive us IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! We commit the sin again..... and again...... and again...... and again........ and repent and believe/rely. Does God forgive? YES! HE promised it! Christ IS the Savior! And we sin again..... knowing we will repent and be forgiven...... and we sin again, and again, and again........ EVENTUALLY (Bonhoeffer theorizes)...... EVENTUALLY it's a game. We no longer are repentant, we no longer believe, we are just playing a GAME with God, taking advantage of God's heart which we don't love or appreciate, we just take advantage of.... Then we sin AND repent and believe. Does God forgive? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! But eventually, we don't believe, we don't repent - we may go through the motions but it's just a GAME. And then we sin.... and we do NOT repent and we do NOT believe, we are just faithlessly jumping through a hoop, mechanically going through motions, but there is no faith and there is no repentance. We at that point have fallen from faith. Will God forgive us? WE DON'T KNOW!!!!! God has NOT promised to forgive where there is no repentance and faith!!! However, God sometimes does (for example, Jesus looking down at the UNrepentant, UNbelieving executioners who were crucifying Him and says, "Father FORGIVE THEM." But Bill, in this POSSIBLE senario, it is NOT a case of a believer not being forgiven - NO MATTER HOW OFTEN HE HAS SINNED, a case of God going back on His promise to forgive. It's a case of someone falling from faith, NOT coming with repentance and faith, NOT relying on Christ as Savior - but playing a sick game with God's heart and Christ's blood, a "hoop jumper" who has abandoned faith and repentance and replaced it with a GAME, 'hoop jumping" that he plays with God - wrecking his/her faith in the process. That, Bill, is a whole other enchildada. WE can be unfaithful to God, God CANNOT be unfaithful to us. I very much disagree with your view there, respectfully.




- Josiah

 

[psalms 91]

I passionately disagree.

When we sin, He is our Savior. If we were perfect as God is, if we were obedient - the Fall would never have happened and Christ never would have come. Jesus told us to forgive one another "70 times 7" (meaning ALWAYS, FOREVER)..... I don't think God is less forgiving than He commands that we be. I don't think God becomes unfaithful, untrue to His promises. Ever. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and will forgive us our sins." It doesn't say, "unless our sin is too big for Him to handle" or "unless we sin too often."


Now, I agree with Bonhoeffer (a Lutheran pastor of some 60 years ago or so) who argued that it is POSSIBLE (Lutherans don't accept OSAS), POSSIBLE for one to "derail" his/her own faith and fall from faith - and one way this MIGHT happen is by people playing a game with God's heart and grace and love, so as to CEASE relying on Christ as the Savior. One sins.... then repents and believes. Does God forgive them IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ IS the Savior! We do it again. We believe and repent again. Does God forgive us IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! We commit the sin again..... and again...... and again...... and again........ and repent and believe/rely. Does God forgive? YES! HE promised it! Christ IS the Savior! And we sin again..... knowing we will repent and be forgiven...... and we sin again, and again, and again........ EVENTUALLY (Bonhoeffer theorizes)...... EVENTUALLY it's a game. We no longer are repentant, we no longer believe, we are just playing a GAME with God, taking advantage of God's heart which we don't love or appreciate, we just take advantage of.... Then we sin AND repent and believe. Does God forgive? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! But eventually, we don't believe, we don't repent - we may go through the motions but it's just a GAME. And then we sin.... and we do NOT repent and we do NOT believe, we are just faithlessly jumping through a hoop, mechanically going through motions, but there is no faith and there is no repentance. We at that point have fallen from faith. Will God forgive us? WE DON'T KNOW!!!!! God has NOT promised to forgive where there is no repentance and faith!!! However, God sometimes does (for example, Jesus looking down at the UNrepentant, UNbelieving executioners who were crucifying Him and says, "Father FORGIVE THEM." But Bill, in this POSSIBLE senario, it is NOT a case of a believer not being forgiven - NO MATTER HOW OFTEN HE HAS SINNED, a case of God going back on His promise to forgive. It's a case of someone falling from faith, NOT coming with repentance and faith, NOT relying on Christ as Savior - but playing a sick game with God's heart and Christ's blood, a "hoop jumper" who has abandoned faith and repentance and replaced it with a GAME, 'hoop jumping" that he plays with God - wrecking his/her faith in the process. That, Bill, is a whole other enchildada. WE can be unfaithful to God, God CANNOT be unfaithful to us. I very much disagree with your view there, respectfully.




- Josiah

Let me ask you this then, say i sin and I know it is sin and I refuse to repent and keep on doing it, do you think that God stays with us then? Did He stay with Israel or did He depart out of the tiemple after a time?

 

[Josiah]

Let me ask you this then, say i sin and I know it is sin and I refuse to repent and keep on doing it, do you think that God stays with us then?

Bill, respectfully, please re-read what I posted:

I passionately disagree.


When we sin, He is our Savior. If we were perfect as God is, if we were obedient - the Fall would never have happened and Christ never would have come. Jesus told us to forgive one another "70 times 7" (meaning ALWAYS, FOREVER)..... I don't think God is less forgiving than He commands that we be. I don't think God becomes unfaithful, untrue to His promises. Ever. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and will forgive us our sins." It doesn't say, "unless our sin is too big for Him to handle" or "unless we sin too often."


Now, I agree with Bonhoeffer (a Lutheran pastor of some 60 years ago or so) who argued that it is POSSIBLE (Lutherans don't accept OSAS), POSSIBLE for one to "derail" his/her own faith and fall from faith - and one way this MIGHT happen is by people playing a game with God's heart and grace and love, so as to CEASE relying on Christ as the Savior. One sins.... then repents and believes. Does God forgive them IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ IS the Savior! We do it again. We believe and repent again. Does God forgive us IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! We commit the sin again..... and again...... and again...... and again........ and repent and believe/rely. Does God forgive? YES! HE promised it! Christ IS the Savior! And we sin again..... knowing we will repent and be forgiven...... and we sin again, and again, and again........ EVENTUALLY (Bonhoeffer theorizes)...... EVENTUALLY it's a game. We no longer are repentant, we no longer believe, we are just playing a GAME with God, taking advantage of God's heart which we don't love or appreciate, we just take advantage of.... Then we sin AND repent and believe. Does God forgive? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! But eventually, we don't believe, we don't repent - we may go through the motions but it's just a GAME. And then we sin.... and we do NOT repent and we do NOT believe, we are just faithlessly jumping through a hoop, mechanically going through motions, but there is no faith and there is no repentance. We at that point have fallen from faith. Will God forgive us? WE DON'T KNOW!!!!! God has NOT promised to forgive where there is no repentance and faith!!! However, God sometimes does (for example, Jesus looking down at the UNrepentant, UNbelieving executioners who were crucifying Him and says, "Father FORGIVE THEM." But Bill, in this POSSIBLE senario, it is NOT a case of a believer not being forgiven - NO MATTER HOW OFTEN HE HAS SINNED, a case of God going back on His promise to forgive. It's a case of someone falling from faith, NOT coming with repentance and faith, NOT relying on Christ as Savior - but playing a sick game with God's heart and Christ's blood, a "hoop jumper" who has abandoned faith and repentance and replaced it with a GAME, 'hoop jumping" that he plays with God - wrecking his/her faith in the process. That, Bill, is a whole other enchildada. WE can be unfaithful to God, God CANNOT be unfaithful to us. I very much disagree with your view there, respectfully.



.

It COULD be that if you persistently sin - and do NOT repent and have NO faith (and thus you reject Christ as Savior) - then, yes, you might not be forgiven. God's PROMISE is that he who repents and believes IS forgiven, and I think God is faithful. Since God tells us to ALWAYS forgive (not just 3 times but 77 time 7), I think He does what He commands - ALWAYS forgives. I don't think it's true that Jesus is the Savior only of little sins we rarely commit. Again, I think I explained my position as well as I can in what you quoted. It seems we disagree (perhaps not).



Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah

 

[psalms 91]

Bill, respectfully, please re-read what I posted:





It COULD be that if you persistently sin - and do NOT repent and have NO faith (and thus you reject Christ as Savior) - then, yes, you might not be forgiven. God's PROMISE is that he who repents and believes IS forgiven, and I think God is faithful. Since God tells us to ALWAYS forgive (not just 3 times but 77 time 7), I think He does what He commands - ALWAYS forgives. I don't think it's true that Jesus is the Savior only of little sins we rarely commit. Again, I think I explained my position as well as I can in what you quoted. It seems we disagree (perhaps not).



Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah

I think we are closer than you think. I agree that it is not one sin or even a hundred and you are out but I do believve there comes a point where the Spirit of God will not strive with you anymore

 

[Josiah]

I think we are closer than you think.

I sincerely hope so :wink:

I believe that God is ALWAYS faithful to His promises.... and there's nothing we can think, say or do to make Him unfaithful, untrue. And I think Christ is ALWAYS the Savior (and not just for what I MYSELF may regard as tiny and infrequent).

But I DO think it is at least POSSIBLE that we can wreak our faith..... that "game playing" can (perhaps) actually destroy our faith (and our repentance) so that we abandon our faith in Christ (and thus the connection to the Gospel) - and thus.... having no faith or repentance.... have no forgiveness. But THAT would be a case of OUR being unfaithful - not God. OUR being untrue to our promises - not God. OUR abandoning God, not his abandoning us. A whole different enchilada altogether! Of course, the tiny minority of uber-Calvinists who embrace OSAS would have a problem with my view.... as well as some who insist that Christians don't sin and thus don't need no Gospel, no forgiveness, no mercy, no Christ, no Savior, no repentance: they just look in the mirror and see the one perfect one (whereas the rest of us look to the CROSS and see the one perfect one - perfect in righteousness and mercy).




Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

BTW, I posted this same thread at "the website that shall not be named." And ... while 105 people have read it..... not one, not even one reply. Not there..... 70 posts here, so far. We have a MUCH, MUCH more involved community. It's good to be here....

 

[Alithis]

I passionately disagree.

When we sin, He is our Savior. If we were perfect as God is, if we were obedient - the Fall would never have happened and Christ never would have come. Jesus told us to forgive one another "70 times 7" (meaning ALWAYS, FOREVER)..... I don't think God is less forgiving than He commands that we be. I don't think God becomes unfaithful, untrue to His promises. Ever. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and will forgive us our sins." It doesn't say, "unless our sin is too big for Him to handle" or "unless we sin too often."


Now, I agree with Bonhoeffer (a Lutheran pastor of some 60 years ago or so) who argued that it is POSSIBLE (Lutherans don't accept OSAS), POSSIBLE for one to "derail" his/her own faith and fall from faith - and one way this MIGHT happen is by people playing a game with God's heart and grace and love, so as to CEASE relying on Christ as the Savior. One sins.... then repents and believes. Does God forgive them IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ IS the Savior! We do it again. We believe and repent again. Does God forgive us IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! We commit the sin again..... and again...... and again...... and again........ and repent and believe/rely. Does God forgive? YES! HE promised it! Christ IS the Savior! And we sin again..... knowing we will repent and be forgiven...... and we sin again, and again, and again........ EVENTUALLY (Bonhoeffer theorizes)...... EVENTUALLY it's a game. We no longer are repentant, we no longer believe, we are just playing a GAME with God, taking advantage of God's heart which we don't love or appreciate, we just take advantage of.... Then we sin AND repent and believe. Does God forgive? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! But eventually, we don't believe, we don't repent - we may go through the motions but it's just a GAME. And then we sin.... and we do NOT repent and we do NOT believe, we are just faithlessly jumping through a hoop, mechanically going through motions, but there is no faith and there is no repentance. We at that point have fallen from faith. Will God forgive us? WE DON'T KNOW!!!!! God has NOT promised to forgive where there is no repentance and faith!!! However, God sometimes does (for example, Jesus looking down at the UNrepentant, UNbelieving executioners who were crucifying Him and says, "Father FORGIVE THEM." But Bill, in this POSSIBLE senario, it is NOT a case of a believer not being forgiven - NO MATTER HOW OFTEN HE HAS SINNED, a case of God going back on His promise to forgive. It's a case of someone falling from faith, NOT coming with repentance and faith, NOT relying on Christ as Savior - but playing a sick game with God's heart and Christ's blood, a "hoop jumper" who has abandoned faith and repentance and replaced it with a GAME, 'hoop jumping" that he plays with God - wrecking his/her faith in the process. That, Bill, is a whole other enchildada. WE can be unfaithful to God, God CANNOT be unfaithful to us. I very much disagree with your view there, respectfully.




- Josiah

then you dont beleive the bible

jesus said .. repentance is to be preached for the forgiveness of sin.. you have to turn away and STOP doing it . you're not preaching the gospel of repentance your preaching a gospel of continuance ..
and that is a different gospel the what the apostles preached .

Jesus said when he comes back they will say but lord i did this and that and he will say "depart from me you WORKERS of iniquity ... a worker of iniquity is a person who does the work of sin.. they DO sinful acts .. people who continue to do sinful acts ..and refuse to stop doing them.. and dont even beleive that god gives us in Chrsit the POWER to cease doing them and have them replaced by works of righteousness, are rebellious unbelievers who do not know God .. and that is why the lord JEsus says 'I DO NOT KNOW YOU ' .

so he says those who keep doing sins will be cast out from presence .. and you say it ok to keep doing sins ... one of you is not telling the truth..

 

[Lamb]

That verse you said about Lord, Lord look what we've done for you are the ones who were trusting in their works to get in good with God. The ones who didn't realize they were doing good works (because God is working within us) were the ones Jesus commended.

No one here is telling Christians to go out and sin. No one here is telling Christians to not repent when they do sin. Oops, there it is, repentance. If man wasn't still committing sins, there wouldn't be the need to be preaching repentance at all now would there?

 

[psalms 91]

Repentance is the key

 

[Josiah]

CHRIST is the key. Which is why we are CHRISTians.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, and as Christians repentance should be a daily part of our walk

 

[Josiah]

BILL, I passionately disagree.

When we sin, He is our Savior. If we were perfect as God is, if we were obedient - the Fall would never have happened and Christ never would have come. Jesus told us to forgive one another "70 times 7" (meaning ALWAYS, FOREVER)..... I don't think God is less forgiving than He commands that we be. I don't think God becomes unfaithful, untrue to His promises. Ever. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and will forgive us our sins." It doesn't say, "unless our sin is too big for Him to handle" or "unless we sin too often."


Now, I agree with Bonhoeffer (a Lutheran pastor of some 60 years ago or so) who argued that it is POSSIBLE (Lutherans don't accept OSAS), POSSIBLE for one to "derail" his/her own faith and fall from faith - and one way this MIGHT happen is by people playing a game with God's heart and grace and love, so as to CEASE relying on Christ as the Savior. One sins.... then repents and believes. Does God forgive them IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ IS the Savior! We do it again. We believe and repent again. Does God forgive us IN CHRIST? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! We commit the sin again..... and again...... and again...... and again........ and repent and believe/rely. Does God forgive? YES! HE promised it! Christ IS the Savior! And we sin again..... knowing we will repent and be forgiven...... and we sin again, and again, and again........ EVENTUALLY (Bonhoeffer theorizes)...... EVENTUALLY it's a game. We no longer are repentant, we no longer believe, we are just playing a GAME with God, taking advantage of God's heart which we don't love or appreciate, we just take advantage of.... Then we sin AND repent and believe. Does God forgive? YES! He promised it! Christ is the Savior! But eventually, we don't believe, we don't repent - we may go through the motions but it's just a GAME. And then we sin.... and we do NOT repent and we do NOT believe, we are just faithlessly jumping through a hoop, mechanically going through motions, but there is no faith and there is no repentance. We at that point have fallen from faith. Will God forgive us? WE DON'T KNOW!!!!! God has NOT promised to forgive where there is no repentance and faith!!! However, God sometimes does (for example, Jesus looking down at the UNrepentant, UNbelieving executioners who were crucifying Him and says, "Father FORGIVE THEM." But Bill, in this POSSIBLE senario, it is NOT a case of a believer not being forgiven - NO MATTER HOW OFTEN HE HAS SINNED, a case of God going back on His promise to forgive. It's a case of someone falling from faith, NOT coming with repentance and faith, NOT relying on Christ as Savior - but playing a sick game with God's heart and Christ's blood, a "hoop jumper" who has abandoned faith and repentance and replaced it with a GAME, 'hoop jumping" that he plays with God - wrecking his/her faith in the process. That, Bill, is a whole other enchildada. WE can be unfaithful to God, God CANNOT be unfaithful to us. I very much disagree with your view there, respectfully.




.

then you dont beleive the bible

jesus said .. repentance is to be preached for the forgiveness of sin.. you have to turn away and STOP doing it

List for us the full names of ten living persons (just TEN - a tiny percentage of the 7.3 billion people, even of the 2.2 billion who claim to be CHRISTIANS) who do not sin, who never "miss the mark", who are divinely perfect and holy and loving 24/7, who have no need for Christ or justification or Gospel or mercy or forgiveness because they have ceased sin. Should be easy to do. We're still waiting for that list, that documentation that Christians cease to sin, cease to be sinful in nature, being, thought, word and deed - thus proving Scripture is wrong when it says to Christians, "if anyone claims to be without sin, he lies and deceives only himself."


Yes, repentance AND forgiveness are to be preached.... both Law AND Gospel...... but not "you save yourself by ceasing to be sinful" That's Bhakti Hinduism, not Christian. By your constant claim that we must become sinless and your persistent evasion of the Gospel, the Cross, the Savior, mercy, forgiveness - you have abandoned Christianity and are promoting the soteriology of Bhakti Hinduism, although I doubt you realize it (although you've been told so for months).


You believe you have to cease being sinful. Okay. Good luck with that one. You'll then will have abandoned Christianity entirely, abandoned the Gospel absolutely, will be the goal of Bhakti Hinduism, not needing the Gospel, not needing the Savior, not needing mercy or forgiveness or the Blood or the Lamb (which is why Hindus reject Christianity - no need for a Savior, just TIME and HELP until we cease to sin).


Give us the list of just ten living perfect people who have ceased to sin. Let's look at those ten, let's see if what you claim is true - especially as you constantly contradict Scripture which says TO CHRISTIANS, "if ANYONE (kind of inclusive) CLAIMS (present tense) to be without sin, he lies."




Pax Soli CHRISTI



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

Yes, and as Christians repentance should be a daily part of our walk

Absolutely! Because sin is a daily part of life. We ALWAYS need the Gospel, the Christ, the Cross, the Blood, mercy.

Bhakti Hinduism is WRONG when it comes to soteriology! It's NOT only Law, it's NOT a matter of self adequately tapping the sufficient TIME and HELP that the divine provides to us until we cease to be sinful - thus needing no Gospel, no Savior, no salvation, no justification, no Christ - ONLY Law - and the sufficient TIME and HELP to fulfill it. Bhakti Hinduism is WRONG. I'm a CHRISTIAN!


Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide! Soli DEO Gloria!



- Josiah

 

[pinacled]

It is way too easy to pick isolated verses out of saint Paul's letters and say "there you go! that's proof that my doctrine is right!" but it is not proof. Christians ought to read the sermon on the mount and see what Jesus says about living in communion with God. And Christians ought to remember that saint Paul never saw himself as originating the gospel or changing it for saint Paul the Sermon on the Mount is still pivotal.

• Blessed are the poor in spirit: the kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
• Blessed are the gentle: they shall have the earth as inheritance.
• Blessed are those who mourn: they shall be comforted.
• Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for uprightness: they shall have their fill.
• Blessed are the merciful: they shall have mercy shown them.
• Blessed are the pure in heart: they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: they shall be recognised as children of God.
• Blessed are those who are persecuted in the cause of uprightness: the kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
• Blessed are you when people abuse you and persecute you and speak all kinds of calumny against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven; this is how they persecuted the prophets before you.
• You are salt for the earth. But if salt loses its taste, what can make it salty again? It is good for nothing, and can only be thrown out to be trampled under people's feet.
• You are light for the world. A city built on a hill-top cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp to put it under a tub; they put it on the lamp-stand where it shines for everyone in the house. In the same way your light must shine in people's sight, so that, seeing your good works, they may give praise to your Father in heaven.
• Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete them. In truth I tell you, till heaven and earth disappear, not one dot, not one little stroke, is to disappear from the Law until all its purpose is achieved. Therefore, anyone who infringes even one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be considered the least in the kingdom of Heaven; but the person who keeps them and teaches them will be considered great in the kingdom of Heaven.
• For I tell you, if your uprightness does not surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never get into the kingdom of Heaven.
• You have heard how it was said to our ancestors, You shall not kill; and if anyone does kill he must answer for it before the court. But I say this to you, anyone who is angry with a brother will answer for it before the court; anyone who calls a brother "Fool" will answer for it before the Sanhedrin; and anyone who calls him "Traitor" will answer for it in hell fire. So then, if you are bringing your offering to the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar, go and be reconciled with your brother first, and then come back and present your offering. Come to terms with your opponent in good time while you are still on the way to the court with him, or he may hand you over to the judge and the judge to the officer, and you will be thrown into prison. In truth I tell you, you will not get out till you have paid the last penny.
• You have heard how it was said, You shall not commit adultery. But I say this to you, if a man looks at a woman lustfully, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye should be your downfall, tear it out and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body thrown into hell. And if your right hand should be your downfall, cut it off and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body go to hell.
• It has also been said, Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a writ of dismissal. But I say this to you, everyone who divorces his wife, except for the case of an illicit marriage, makes her an adulteress; and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
• Again, you have heard how it was said to our ancestors, You must not break your oath, but must fulfil your oaths to the Lord. But I say this to you, do not swear at all, either by heaven, since that is God's throne; or by earth, since that is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, since that is the city of the great King. Do not swear by your own head either, since you cannot turn a single hair white or black. All you need say is "Yes" if you mean yes, "No" if you mean no; anything more than this comes from the Evil One.
• You have heard how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer no resistance to the wicked. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well; if someone wishes to go to law with you to get your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone requires you to go one mile, go two miles with him. Give to anyone who asks you, and if anyone wants to borrow, do not turn away.
• You have heard how it was said, You will love your neighbour and hate your enemy. But I say this to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you; so that you may be children of your Father in heaven, for he causes his sun to rise on the bad as well as the good, and sends down rain to fall on the upright and the wicked alike. For if you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even the tax collectors do as much? And if you save your greetings for your brothers, are you doing anything exceptional? Do not even the gentiles do as much? You must therefore be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.
• Be careful not to parade your uprightness in public to attract attention; otherwise you will lose all reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give alms, do not have it trumpeted before you; this is what the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win human admiration. In truth I tell you, they have had their reward. But when you give alms, your left hand must not know what your right is doing; your almsgiving must be secret, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you.
• And when you pray, do not imitate the hypocrites: they love to say their prayers standing up in the synagogues and at the street corners for people to see them. In truth I tell you, they have had their reward. But when you pray, go to your private room, shut yourself in, and so pray to your Father who is in that secret place, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you.
• In your prayers do not babble as the gentiles do, for they think that by using many words they will make themselves heard. Do not be like them; your Father knows what you need before you ask him. So you should pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be held holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven those who are in debt to us. And do not put us to the test, but save us from the Evil One.
• Yes, if you forgive others their failings, your heavenly Father will forgive you yours; but if you do not forgive others, your Father will not forgive your failings either.

... <I had to clip some of the sermon because the post size limit was reached>
Jesus had now finished what he wanted to say, and his teaching made a deep impression on the people because he taught them with authority, unlike their own scribes.
(Matthew 5:1-7:29)

Strange.
You wrote salt for the earth.
Not salt of the earth.

I see you.

 

[visionary]

The commandment to honor one's human parents is compared to honoring God and a sacred obligation. As God says, “A son honors his father and a servant his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?" says the LORD Almighty. "It is you, O priests, who show contempt for my name.” But you ask, 'How have you shown contempt for your name?”

Yeshua stands up for the sacred importance of honoring one's father and mother. Paul quotes the commandment in his letter to the church in Ephesus. In his letters to the Romans and Timothy, Paul describes disobedience to parents as a serious sin. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified. That is the power of the Holy Sacred Laws of God; they are spiritual and have the power to bring to light that which is done in the dark.

The Law when the Holy Spirit lights upon it, brings enlightenment to the mind, and if there is no rebellion of that mind against what the Law says, it will convict, convert, and transforms you into a person who obeys God’s Laws. Do you know the difference between working the law for justification, and living in the spirit and intent God intended the Law to be lived in our hearts, minds, thoughts, words and deeds?

Letter obedience is when you do right up to the letter of the Law. Spiritual obedience is when you go above and beyond the letter and do it in the spirit of love and in the intent which God wrote the Law of God. Love God and love your neighbors. As Yeshua said, “For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”