LAW and GOSPEL

[Alithis]

No, I have not called scripture confused.

The Law says what WE have to do. The Romans verse you quote has Law and Gospel in there so it might be confusing YOU because you're thinking it's pure Gospel. But it's not. Once you see that the Law speaks to what we have to do and not do and the Gospel is what God has done, is doing and will still do, you'll be even more free in Christ than you think you are now.

again.. i never bought up 'the law "
in my reply ..

i said ..

Romans that says if we continue to sin there is no longer any sacrifice but only a fearful expectation of the wrath of God.
And
Do not present your bodies as instruments of sin to serve it
And 1 john 3 where its written those that continue in sin ,do not know God etc

Dont oppose me..i didn't write it.
Yet there it is.
The direct unambiguous scripture.

In all its uncomfortable cutting words.

Like.. -And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

And
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

And
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

And
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

And
Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. .....

You see. All these things are written.. So to approach the scriptures Honestly, we must Acknowledge what is written and submit to it. not attempt to overlay our carnal reasoning.

ie - if its says ,we dont continue in sin.. But our experience doesnt match the word of god,we MUST NOT build a doctrine on our experience, but seek to know why our experience doesnt match his word.and change our experience to conform To god .. not attempt to change his word to conform to us .
or ignore his word and attempt to self justify our experience.

 

[Alithis]

That's a false accusation you're making.

Telling people that they're doing something is not the same thing as encouraging them to do it.

your telling them to keep doing what they are doing .. jesus told us to repent .. it means change your mind and stop doing it .

when you imply to some one that it is ok that they still sin because "everyone does " -and you and others HAVE repeatedly said " everyone continues to sin" .. you empower them to carry on doing so.. you not preaching repentance ( turning from it and ceasing to practice it )you're preaching continuance, whether you admit it or not .
your opposing the lord jesus who said 'repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached .

i preach-repentance for the forgiveness of sin.. NOT" say sorry and continue to do it ".

 

[Lamb]

your telling them to keep doing what they are doing .. jesus told us to repent .. it means change your mind and stop doing it .

when you imply to some one that it is ok that they still sin because "everyone does " -and you and others HAVE repeatedly said " everyone continues to sin" .. you empower them to carry on doing so.. you not preaching repentance ( turning from it and ceasing to practice it )you're preaching continuance, whether you admit it or not .
your opposing the lord jesus who said 'repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached .

i preach-repentance for the forgiveness of sin.. NOT" say sorry and continue to do it ".

Back up your post with proof that any one here has said "it is ok that they still sin". If you cannot find it then retract your words for they are false. And I expect some sort of exact wording since you're making the claim.

 

[Alithis]

Back up your post with proof that any one here has said "it is ok that they still sin". If you cannot find it then retract your words for they are false. And I expect some sort of exact wording since you're making the claim.

firstly- i NEVER Said any one has said the words " its ok to sin.." i said -you have implied it by saying christians continue in sin(and contrasted it with the bible which states "those who are born of god DO NOT continue in it ". so i dont need to back up something i didn't say . i dont see you telling anyone to STOP sinning .. are you doing that now ?

So, are you saying that people should not continue in sin ? are you now agreeing with me (and john) -that ,we do not have to continue in sin and that jesus has set us free from the power of sin . so we do not ever have to continue in the practice of it because he has done what he promised to do .. he has made us a new creation in Christ and we are no longer under the dominion of sin and so do NOT have to do it..
and since we do not HAVE to do it we are able to choose to not do it and there only reason a person set free from it still does it is because they WANT to sin .. not because they are compelled to sin by some unseen power controlling there will ?


and if that difficult ..answer this instead .. does a person who has been born again of the holy Spirit ,who is no longer under the power of sin,having been set FREE, .. have to go and keep doing a sin they know to be sin?

 

[Lamb]

You insist that it's implied, but it's not actually stated so please stop accusing.

 

[Josiah]

Back up your post with proof that any one here has said "it is ok that they still sin".

NO ONE has EVER posted that at CH. Some of us (Lamm and I for example) are DEFENDING the Law - not stripping it, diluting it, limiting it as others. We are insisting that the Law is real and powerful and that it applies: we are to be PERFECT exactly as and to the same extent that God is..... we are to be HOLY just as and to the same extent that God in Heaven is.... we are to love all 7.3 billion people just as Christ loved on the Cross..... we are to be RIGHTEOUS in our being, our thoughts, our words, our deeds - in what we do and what we don't do. It's those who oppose the Law who keep rejecting it, diluting it, watering it down.

The "problem" is that some - in their incredible pride and egoism - not only oppose the Law but also oppose the Gospel. They've stripped the Law of SO much that what's left ain't much - and they can claim that they've met it, that they obey, that they ceased to "miss the mark" and now "hit the mark" perfectly, 24/7. THUS, they dilute the Gospel just as much because they don't NEED mercy or forgiveness or God or Christ or the Blood or the Lamb because they've ceased to sin or at least met the requirements of the "law" (as they've redefined it as not much - as you put it, "stopped hitting the refrig with a toy"). So, nothing much is left except "God helps those who help themselves..... God gives us the TIME and HELP we need to clean up our own act" (and thus don't even mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy) - which of course is the soteriology of modern Judaism, Islam and especially Bhakti Hinduism - NOT Christianity. Their ENORMOUS ego simply means they keep trying to make SELF big and Christ tiny. They insist on looking in a rose colored mirror at self and asking self, "Whose the bestest of them all?" What Lamm and I and other traditional Christians have been saying is that we need to look to the Cross, to the Christ, to the SAVIOR (which those who oppose the Gospel quickly find offensive and they jump in to renounce that).






- Josiah

 

[visionary]

Mary Magdalene when she was caught in adultery and brought before Jesus. She stood before Him condemned to death by the law

John 8: 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

The law could not save her, but Yeshua could.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

All of the accusers fell short of the glory of God. Convicted of their own sinfulness, they left one by one. Only the trembling, guilty, repentant Mary remained. Yeshua turned to her and said

John 8:10 Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Yeshua said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

The condemned sinner was forgiven and placed under grace, but then she was obligated to henceforth keep the law, to “go, and sin no more.” To be saved by grace does not relieve anyone from the duty of obedience to God’s law. Grace takes away the condemnation of the law, but it does not do away with the law.

 

[Josiah]

Mary Magdalene when she was caught in adultery and brought before Jesus. She stood before Him condemned to death by the law

John 8: 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

The law could not save her, but Yeshua could.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

All of the accusers fell short of the glory of God. Convicted of their own sinfulness, they left one by one. Only the trembling, guilty, repentant Mary remained. Yeshua turned to her and said

John 8:10 Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Yeshua said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

The condemned sinner was forgiven and placed under grace, but then she was obligated to henceforth keep the law, to “go, and sin no more.” To be saved by grace does not relieve anyone from the duty of obedience to God’s law. Grace takes away the condemnation of the law, but it does not do away with the law.

Her "sin no more" was not a condition of the forgiveness, it was to be a response to the forgiveness. Jesus did not say, "IF you sin no more, I'll forgive you,"

 

[visionary]

Her "sin no more" was not a condition of the forgiveness, it was to be a response to the forgiveness. Jesus did not say, "IF you sin no more, I'll forgive you,"

"sin no more" was a command... not a response necessarily from her.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes and we cannot ignore the commands of Christ or forget them

 

[Josiah]

"sin no more" was a command... not a response necessarily from her.

Yes a command - not a condition. The Gospel flows from the Cross, not OUR obedience.

 

[Josiah]

ie - if its says ,we dont continue in sin..

Since you INSIST on making the Gospel dependent upon OUR worthiness and works rather than Christ's, then again - let's see that list of ten sinless people, just ten living folks (out of 7.3 BILLION) who have ceased to sin. If there aren't any - then your "theology" forces two things: 1) You're wrong 2) There are no Christians, no one will be in heaven since none cease to sin.




.

 

[Lamb]

Yes a command - not a condition. The Gospel flows from the Cross, not OUR obedience.

Right! Any conditions were met by Jesus. The Savior

 

[TurtleHare]

Mary Magdalene when she was caught in adultery and brought before Jesus. She stood before Him condemned to death by the law

John 8: 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

The law could not save her, but Yeshua could.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

All of the accusers fell short of the glory of God. Convicted of their own sinfulness, they left one by one. Only the trembling, guilty, repentant Mary remained. Yeshua turned to her and said

John 8:10 Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Yeshua said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

The condemned sinner was forgiven and placed under grace, but then she was obligated to henceforth keep the law, to “go, and sin no more.” To be saved by grace does not relieve anyone from the duty of obedience to God’s law. Grace takes away the condemnation of the law, but it does not do away with the law.

Are you sure you're talking about Mary Magdelene because my bible doesn't give the lady caught in adultery a name.

 

[Alithis]

You insist that it's implied, but it's not actually stated so please stop accusing.

Answering this question will clear up the confusion around the percieved implication of your words then wont it.

does a person who has been born again of the holy Spirit ,who is no longer under the power of sin,having been set FREE, .. have to go and keep doing a sin they know to be sin?

 

[Alithis]

Right! Any conditions were met by Jesus. The Savior

Actually jesus himself established the condition and graciously gave us the instructions of what to do to be saved..
Believe
Repent
Be baptised
Recieve the holy Ghost.

If you dont obediently do these things you dont get saved.
There is no escaping obedience.

And that is why the scriptures warn of the peril of those who.."disobey the gospel."

Yup thats scripture .plain and simple.

 

[Lamb]

Answering this question will clear up the confusion around the percieved implication of your words then wont it.

does a person who has been born again of the holy Spirit ,who is no longer under the power of sin,having been set FREE, .. have to go and keep doing a sin they know to be sin?

Here is the truth and read carefully...it's not that we have to go on and keep doing a sin. But here is what you miss, we WILL still sin because we are in sinful bodies. I know you have a limited view of what sin is from that other thread but I need to tell you that it's more extensive than you've been taught.

 

[Alithis]

[MENTION=204]TurtleHare[/MENTION] ..That does not even warrant a reply...who it is or is not does not change the point presented.

 

[Lamb]

Actually jesus himself established the condition and graciously gave us the instructions of what to do to be saved..
Believe
Repent
Be baptised
Recieve the holy Ghost.

If you dont obediently do these things you dont get saved.
There is no escaping obedience.

And that is why the scriptures warn of the peril of those who.."disobey the gospel."

Yup thats scripture .plain and simple.

Let's look at those one by one.

Believe. We can only believe because we have first been given faith to believe. Those who do not believe reject the faith given to them and reject the Savior and His forgiveness.
Repent. The Holy Spirit works through the Word and uses the Law to show us our sin and then gives us faith to turn us to Him.
Be Baptized. It's God's work in us. And we receive the Holy Spirit in baptism according to Acts.

I hope you noticed the trend there of God doing all that work in us?

 

[Alithis]

Here is the truth and read carefully...it's not that we have to go on and keep doing a sin. But here is what you miss, we WILL still sin because we are in sinful bodies. I know you have a limited view of what sin is from that other thread but I need to tell you that it's more extensive than you've been taught.

Law lwts us know what sin is..its not more extensive..your adding what is not written.

And youve said a person "will"Sin ..as if its ok .
So you are implying it is ok to continue doingso.
For "will" is exercised by choice..it is a chosen action a person wills to do.

John state a person does not continue in the practice of sin when they are born of God (born again) ...but you and josiah stae they do..
So
Whom do you desire i believe?
You or scripture?