Visions, dreams, and prophecies a danger or a blessing?

MoreCoffee

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That's why most smart ones say: I think the Lord is saying so and so, instead of: thus sayeth the Lord. But the unknown ones in our church who gave a prophecy, which doesn't happen very often, it was never wrong. Also because noone can just give a prophecy, it first gets tested. Lol we had one woman who visited. I have a Word from God! He said: Nice! Write it down, so I can test it.

It's very sly of them to say "I think the Lord is saying such and such" but it is hardly a recommendation to hear that from one who says he/she has a prophetic gift. "I think" is a sure sign that you;re about to hear an opinion rather than a word revealed by God. When God speaks the speaker of his words says "This is what the Lord says to you" and leaves no room for opinion and doubt.
 

Rens

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Only one time in my life I got a false one. A guy after the service with a hallway prophecy. God told him I was like Goldilocks from the fairy tale. Hahahahahahaha such nonsense. Oh and in one of my first churches they let everyone prophecy from the platform. My, one woman started to accuse everyone. Not very smart to just let everyone talk.
 

MoreCoffee

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Only one time in my life I got a false one. A guy after the service with a hallway prophecy. God told him I was like Goldilocks from the fairy tale. Hahahahahahaha such nonsense. Oh and in one of my first churches they let everyone prophecy from the platform. My, one woman started to accuse everyone. Not very smart to just let everyone talk.

I visited a Pentecostal meeting for every Sunday over a year and six months. During that time I was prophesied over many times. Told I would be a minister and do great things for God. Told I was a little fly in a teacup looking out at the wide world. Told I was gifted with prophecy. Told I would convert many souls. Told I would not. Told I was resisting the Spirit. Told I was the instrument of the Spirit. Invited to preach. It was all very peculiar. One lady used to tell me that the colours I wore were a message from God. Another testified to the Spirit filling her empty car fuel tank. One testified that God had a policeman not do his duty and spare her a traffic infringement ticket. So ought one to believe all these things? I think not.
 

Rens

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I visited a Pentecostal meeting for every Sunday over a year and six months. During that time I was prophesied over many times. Told I would be a minister and do great things for God. Told I was a little fly in a teacup looking out at the wide world. Told I was gifted with prophecy. Told I would convert many souls. Told I would not. Told I was resisting the Spirit. Told I was the instrument of the Spirit. Invited to preach. It was all very peculiar. One lady used to tell me that the colours I wore were a message from God. Another testified to the Spirit filling her empty car fuel tank. One testified that God had a policeman not do his duty and spare her a traffic infringement ticket. So ought one to believe all these things? I think not.

Hahahahahahaha a fly in a teacup. No no you're wrong. I'm MoreCoffee.
 

MoreCoffee

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Hahahahahahaha a fly in a teacup. No no you're wrong. I'm MoreCoffee.

One pentecostal chap used to chat with me regularly. If I made a comment or asked a question the reply was about 45 minutes long and very meandering. The chap who did this used to talk and talk and talk waiting for the Spirit to inspire/guide him. The Spirit didn't inspire him. His long meandering answers were a mixture of pentecostal folk lore and strange personal opinions. I no longer chat with this chap. It was too excruciating to politely listen to the long answers that didn't answer any question that was asked. As an aside, his wife often tried to slow him down and get him to stop. Once or twice she was in tears trying to stop him but it was to no avail. And I am reminded of this answers when I read some message board posts. He was the chap who spoke the "fly in a teacup" message.
 

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Pentecostals are funny. I got saved in a pentecostal church.
I once went to Taize in France for a week, an eucomenial monastry. That was a culture shock. I wasn't raised christian, so all I knew was that pentecostal church. My brother and I would watch the others there closely and if they put 2 hands up, we put 2 hands up. We would bump each other. Only the right hand now. Bump. Hands down.
All the pentecostals that want coffee: hands down.
Then with school I went to Taize. They had signs there with Silence on it. It was great though.
 

MoreCoffee

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Pentecostals are funny. I got saved in a pentecostal church.
I once went to Taize in France for a week, an eucomenial monastry. That was a culture shock. I wasn't raised christian, so all I knew was that pentecostal church. My brother and I would watch the others there closely and if they put 2 hands up, we put 2 hands up. We would bump each other. Only the right hand now. Bump. Hands down.
All the pentecostals that want coffee: hands down.
Then with school I went to Taize. They had signs there with Silence on it. It was great though.

Here we have a monastery town called New Norcia. It's a good place to visit. It's quiet and the monks are friendly. One of them is assigned to come talk with the visitors after dinner in the visitor's lounge. There are often nuns and other religious visiting too and they share meals with the visitors and chat. The monks say the divine office every day (They are Benedictine) so a visitor can join them in the chapel and listen as well as pray the psalms with them. I think that monastic living is refreshing. It's worth participating every now and then.
 

tango

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The vocabulary that uses "gifting" instead of "gift" and "gifts" is peculiar to me but it appears to be current in Charismatic and Pentecostal circles so I guess it must have some special meaning that differs from gift and gifts.

No, and that's a good call on the word "gifting". It just kinda sticks, I don't honestly see it as having a different meaning from "gift" but it does seem like the kind of Christianese that can be confusing, so thanks for the call-out.

There are people claiming revelatory gifts such as prophecy today. Their claims when made loudly enough to attract media attention fail even the minor testing that the press applies. I am not inclined to see media opinions as definitive but if a claimant offers a prophecy and it fails for various reasons then why ought any Christian to give it credence?

There's no reason at all to give credence to a "prophetic word" that is clearly not fulfilled. Some will point to OT prophets like Daniel who have widely published words that have yet to come to pass, but clearly Daniel established his credibility with what did come to pass. A lot of the high profile "prophets" seem to just publish endless streams of fine sounding gibberish that actually means nothing, sometimes contradicts Scripture, sometimes rips Scripture out of context, and generally doesn't say anything too specific so it's all but impossible to test. Most of what is published on sites like The Elijah List, for example, appear to be utter garbage. Were it not for the fact I know people who take that stuff seriously I'd just write the whole thing off as having comic value but people truly hang on the words of these so-called prophets.
 

tango

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It's very sly of them to say "I think the Lord is saying such and such" but it is hardly a recommendation to hear that from one who says he/she has a prophetic gift. "I think" is a sure sign that you;re about to hear an opinion rather than a word revealed by God. When God speaks the speaker of his words says "This is what the Lord says to you" and leaves no room for opinion and doubt.

Personally I'd rather have a word presented in humility along the lines of "I think God is saying..." simply because it makes it clear that the person presenting it does believe the word is from God but it's also clearly inviting me to test the word. The "Thus saith the Lord" proclamation sounds very high and mighty, and to me would suggest that the person speaking it expects it to be accepted as is.

Sometimes things can turn out to have a far bigger impact than expected. Years ago I was scheduled to lead the Bible study group I attended, and what we usually did was a more detailed study of the Scripture used for that Sunday's sermon. When I read the Scripture in question I thought that including the following verse would be relevant. When I read the Scripture before the study, as I read the extra verse one of the ladies in the group started crying - it turned out that one extra verse was just what she needed to hear at that particular time. Was that a prophetic thing, was it a fluke, was it something else? It's the sort of thing that could easily be argued any which way but ultimately the lady in question got the comfort she needed, when she needed it, and in a safe place where she could express what was bothering her among people she knew and trusted.

It's certainly not something even remotely worthy of reopening the canon of Scripture, it's not something that anyone outside of that group could verify, but it's back to the idea of God moving one person at a time rather than having some guy standing on stage trying to reach a million people at once. And from my perspective as the study leader there was no sense of "Thus saith the Lord", no sense of believing God had a specific word for someone, just thinking that the passage made more sense if that one extra verse was added.
 

MoreCoffee

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...

There's no reason at all to give credence to a "prophetic word" that is clearly not fulfilled. Some will point to OT prophets like Daniel who have widely published words that have yet to come to pass, but clearly Daniel established his credibility with what did come to pass. A lot of the high profile "prophets" seem to just publish endless streams of fine sounding gibberish that actually means nothing, sometimes contradicts Scripture, sometimes rips Scripture out of context, and generally doesn't say anything too specific so it's all but impossible to test. Most of what is published on sites like The Elijah List, for example, appear to be utter garbage. Were it not for the fact I know people who take that stuff seriously I'd just write the whole thing off as having comic value but people truly hang on the words of these so-called prophets.

I am inclined to think that pretty well all of Daniel's prophetic utterances (now in writing in the book bearing his name) are about past events. There may be some exceptions. Not many.
 

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Personally I'd rather have a word presented in humility along the lines of "I think God is saying..." simply because it makes it clear that the person presenting it does believe the word is from God but it's also clearly inviting me to test the word. The "Thus saith the Lord" proclamation sounds very high and mighty, and to me would suggest that the person speaking it expects it to be accepted as is.

Sometimes things can turn out to have a far bigger impact than expected. Years ago I was scheduled to lead the Bible study group I attended, and what we usually did was a more detailed study of the Scripture used for that Sunday's sermon. When I read the Scripture in question I thought that including the following verse would be relevant. When I read the Scripture before the study, as I read the extra verse one of the ladies in the group started crying - it turned out that one extra verse was just what she needed to hear at that particular time. Was that a prophetic thing, was it a fluke, was it something else? It's the sort of thing that could easily be argued any which way but ultimately the lady in question got the comfort she needed, when she needed it, and in a safe place where she could express what was bothering her among people she knew and trusted.

It's certainly not something even remotely worthy of reopening the canon of Scripture, it's not something that anyone outside of that group could verify, but it's back to the idea of God moving one person at a time rather than having some guy standing on stage trying to reach a million people at once. And from my perspective as the study leader there was no sense of "Thus saith the Lord", no sense of believing God had a specific word for someone, just thinking that the passage made more sense if that one extra verse was added.

However a claim to a prophetic message is framed I am inclined to test it.
 

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No, and that's a good call on the word "gifting". It just kinda sticks, I don't honestly see it as having a different meaning from "gift" but it does seem like the kind of Christianese that can be confusing, so thanks for the call-out.



There's no reason at all to give credence to a "prophetic word" that is clearly not fulfilled. Some will point to OT prophets like Daniel who have widely published words that have yet to come to pass, but clearly Daniel established his credibility with what did come to pass. A lot of the high profile "prophets" seem to just publish endless streams of fine sounding gibberish that actually means nothing, sometimes contradicts Scripture, sometimes rips Scripture out of context, and generally doesn't say anything too specific so it's all but impossible to test. Most of what is published on sites like The Elijah List, for example, appear to be utter garbage. Were it not for the fact I know people who take that stuff seriously I'd just write the whole thing off as having comic value but people truly hang on the words of these so-called prophets.

I was a real fan of the Elijah list until I thought: hey this is the month of this, this is the year of that. Actually it's just another month as every month. So I blocked it on Facebook.
 

tango

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However a claim to a prophetic message is framed I am inclined to test it.

Of course, as indeed we should. Given it's going to be tested anyway (or at least should be tested) I'd prefer the approach of someone who asks that I prayerfully consider what they are saying, to the approach of someone whose choice of words appears designed to browbeat me into accepting them without testing. After all, if "thus saith the Lord", who am I to question it?

It's the same kind of reasoning as the people who say "you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with (Paul/God/Jesus/Moses/whoever)" when the truth is I'm arguing with them over the interpretation of what (Paul/God/Jesus/Moses/whoever) said and how it applies today, but even so it's nice to use a form of words that not only invites but encourages the Scriptural notion of testing.
 

tango

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I was a real fan of the Elijah list until I thought: hey this is the month of this, this is the year of that. Actually it's just another month as every month. So I blocked it on Facebook.

Some of what I've read on there is so off the wall I'm truly amazed that anybody takes it seriously. But I know people who do, people who genuinely believe that just about every little thing means this or that or that God is pleased with them in some way. And the way these so-called "prophets" twist the context of Scripture is itself remarkable.

What really made me laugh was when someone (I think it was the site owner) posted something about how "by the mouths of two or three the matter shall be established" and butchered the context to argue that because the "prophet" said the word was true, and he said the word was true, the matter was thereby established. I wonder how he would have countered the argument that using the exact same logic I could meet up with someone else who thought it was garbage and, by the mouths of two or three (i.e. me plus one other) the fact it was garbage was established. Therefore, using his approach to Biblical reasoning, the "prophecy" was both true and garbage at the same time.

I saw two recurring themes on the Elijah List. One was a succession of predictions so vague that just about anything could count as a "hit", and the other was the generic promise that great blessings were just around the corner. But they always seemed to be just around the corner, always just out of reach, just out of sight, but they never seemed to materialise. It was the first couple of times I read things on the Elijah List that got me questioning just what other kind of garbage they were peddling, and led me to research the whole New Apostolic Reformation in a lot more detail.
 

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MoreCoffee

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Of course, as indeed we should. Given it's going to be tested anyway (or at least should be tested) I'd prefer the approach of someone who asks that I prayerfully consider what they are saying, to the approach of someone whose choice of words appears designed to browbeat me into accepting them without testing. After all, if "thus saith the Lord", who am I to question it?

It's the same kind of reasoning as the people who say "you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with (Paul/God/Jesus/Moses/whoever)" when the truth is I'm arguing with them over the interpretation of what (Paul/God/Jesus/Moses/whoever) said and how it applies today, but even so it's nice to use a form of words that not only invites but encourages the Scriptural notion of testing.

Browbeating is a good sign that the alleged prophet is a verbal bully.
 

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That guy who had a dream of the end time and got saved because of it, Ken Peters, saw a 100 dollar bill that recently came out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2MGeoOcsHc

The news reports starts with saying that the $100 note was planned for release many years ago but there were delays. If the chap with the dream in 1980 (as he says) then it might be interesting to see when the plans were made and how public the information was. He says 2003, it is now 2016. Was he right? Hasn't money always been traceable? It's had serial numbers on each note for a very very long time.
 

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Wasn't That guy with the Crystal Cathedral (not yet built in 1968) preaching prosperity and happiness Christianity in the 1970s on TV? I am sure that his "power of possibility thinking" started before his TV show did.


I am certain that in the 1960s there was plenty of "indecency" on TV, even more than is present now. The 1960s was the time of the pill and the sexual revolution.

It's interesting that Jim Bakker is back on TV as a religious broadcast personality again after the very public exposure of anomalous fund raising activities in the 1980s and his imprisonment and divorce 1990s. There must be something about religious broadcasting that is very attractive.
 

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Wasn't That guy with the Crystal Cathedral (not yet built in 1968) preaching prosperity and happiness Christianity in the 1970s on TV? I am sure that his "power of possibility thinking" started before his TV show did.


I am certain that in the 1960s there was plenty of "indecency" on TV, even more than is present now. The 1960s was the time of the pill and the sexual revolution.

It's interesting that Jim Bakker is back on TV as a religious broadcast personality again after the very public exposure of anomalous fund raising activities in the 1980s and his imprisonment and divorce 1990s. There must be something about religious broadcasting that is very attractive.
You do not believe is restoration? When you fall it is our duty to help a brother back up and lead him into sincere repentance and then restore that brother.
 
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