Visions, dreams, and prophecies a danger or a blessing?

psalms 91

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pastors lead, teachers teach, prophets gives words where people have ran past God and cant hear Him. Like so many in the church today
 

MoreCoffee

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You asked I answered. will you quibble about peripheral details now?
 

psalms 91

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Nope I think people can see where you are coming from, you dismiss prophets because you do not believe that God has put them in the church
 

MoreCoffee

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Nope I think people can see where you are coming from, you dismiss prophets because you do not believe that God has put them in the church

That is right. God has not put prophets in any denomination nor in any Church of today.
 

Rens

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That is right. God has not put prophets in any denomination nor in any Church of today.
He has given prophets to the Body. But I think the ones that are real prophets are unnoticed because almost noone will call himself a prophet. That's suspicious, just like apostle. The false ones love to use those names.
 

psalms 91

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That is right. God has not put prophets in any denomination nor in any Church of today.[/QUOTESo you deny scripture that says they are part of the body?
 

MoreCoffee

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He has given prophets to the Body. But I think the ones that are real prophets are unnoticed because almost noone will call himself a prophet. That's suspicious, just like apostle. The false ones love to use those names.

Saint Paul was not shy about calling himself an apostle. Others were identified as prophets (Agabus, for example). Today the ones who call themselves apostles are schismatics who push doctrines that all others reject. The same appears to be true of the ones who self-identify as prophets.
 
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psalms 91

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Saint Paul was not shy about calling himself an apostle. Others were identified as prophets (Agabus, for example). Today the ones who call themselves apostles are schismatics who push doctrines that all others reject. The same appears to be true of the pones who self-identify as prophets.
Talk about a slanted vision concerning what the bible says is in the body of Christ
 

MoreCoffee

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Talk about a slanted vision concerning what the bible says is in the body of Christ

Coming from your post I count that a sure sign that the path is the right one.
 

psalms 91

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sometimes you just havbe to let the blind be blind and it is not my post it comes from but the Word of God that says they are in the body
 

MoreCoffee

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sometimes you just havbe to let the blind be blind and it is not my post it comes from but the Word of God that says they are in the body

Sometimes I think so.
 

tango

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Name some folk who are gifted as prophets so we can test the claims.

Honestly, there is nobody I would identify as a "prophet" at present. The people I'm aware of who claim the title are people I wouldn't give any credence to at all.

I've known a few people that I would say have a prophetic gifting but since their words were given and received in a local context it's not really relevant to present them to anyone else, simply because their words wouldn't have any relevance to anyone outside the area. To be honest I think that's the key value of a prophetic gifting and the prophetic ministry, and an answer to one of the more common objections to the idea of prophetic words.

Some would say that if a prophetic word is a word spoken directly from God then we should reopen the canon of Scripture to add it. In the context of a self-proclaimed "prophet" speaking a message they consider relevant to the entire body of Christ then it's a reasonable conclusion to draw. But in the context of a person with a prophetic gifting presenting something to a local congregation or to an individual it's not a reasonable conclusion.

To give an example (a deliberately silly one), let's imagine there's some really important reason why God wants you to paint your living room in tones of blue. Maybe you and I are talking over a drink (coffee perhaps?) and you mention that you're thinking of redecorating. And being the dude with a prophetic gifting I might then say something like "you know, I think God is wanting you to paint your living room blue". You do whatever testing of the word you consider appropriate, conclude that it is from God, and paint your living room blue. And maybe a few days later it becomes clear why blue was important, so you have the confirmation that this probably was from God. So you can have a word that you truly believe is from God, but it's totally irrelevant to anyone other than you. To reopen the canon of Scripture to say "And the word of the Lord came unto tango, and he did speak unto MoreCoffee saying 'Thus saith the Lord, thou shalt paintest thy living room in various hues of blue', and MoreCoffee didst listen unto the word and didst painteth his room in shades of blue, and MoreCoffee saw that it was good" would be absurd.

To roll with the analogy, if I were to make a claim to be a prophet and then claim that God was speaking to say that blue was the only acceptable color any Christian should paint their living room, if God really were making such a universal requirement then reopening the canon of Scripture wouldn't be such a silly logical conclusion.
 

psalms 91

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I agree that prophets are specific to the person locality usually but not always Deutermann comes to mind or even George Washingtons vision.
 

MoreCoffee

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Honestly, there is nobody I would identify as a "prophet" at present. The people I'm aware of who claim the title are people I wouldn't give any credence to at all.

I've known a few people that I would say have a prophetic gifting but since their words were given and received in a local context it's not really relevant to present them to anyone else, simply because their words wouldn't have any relevance to anyone outside the area. To be honest I think that's the key value of a prophetic gifting and the prophetic ministry, and an answer to one of the more common objections to the idea of prophetic words.

Some would say that if a prophetic word is a word spoken directly from God then we should reopen the canon of Scripture to add it. In the context of a self-proclaimed "prophet" speaking a message they consider relevant to the entire body of Christ then it's a reasonable conclusion to draw. But in the context of a person with a prophetic gifting presenting something to a local congregation or to an individual it's not a reasonable conclusion.

To give an example (a deliberately silly one), let's imagine there's some really important reason why God wants you to paint your living room in tones of blue. Maybe you and I are talking over a drink (coffee perhaps?) and you mention that you're thinking of redecorating. And being the dude with a prophetic gifting I might then say something like "you know, I think God is wanting you to paint your living room blue". You do whatever testing of the word you consider appropriate, conclude that it is from God, and paint your living room blue. And maybe a few days later it becomes clear why blue was important, so you have the confirmation that this probably was from God. So you can have a word that you truly believe is from God, but it's totally irrelevant to anyone other than you. To reopen the canon of Scripture to say "And the word of the Lord came unto tango, and he did speak unto MoreCoffee saying 'Thus saith the Lord, thou shalt paintest thy living room in various hues of blue', and MoreCoffee didst listen unto the word and didst painteth his room in shades of blue, and MoreCoffee saw that it was good" would be absurd.

To roll with the analogy, if I were to make a claim to be a prophet and then claim that God was speaking to say that blue was the only acceptable color any Christian should paint their living room, if God really were making such a universal requirement then reopening the canon of Scripture wouldn't be such a silly logical conclusion.

The vocabulary that uses "gifting" instead of "gift" and "gifts" is peculiar to me but it appears to be current in Charismatic and Pentecostal circles so I guess it must have some special meaning that differs from gift and gifts.

There are people claiming revelatory gifts such as prophecy today. Their claims when made loudly enough to attract media attention fail even the minor testing that the press applies. I am not inclined to see media opinions as definitive but if a claimant offers a prophecy and it fails for various reasons then why ought any Christian to give it credence?
 

Rens

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The vocabulary that uses "gifting" instead of "gift" and "gifts" is peculiar to me but it appears to be current in Charismatic and Pentecostal circles so I guess it must have some special meaning that differs from gift and gifts.

There are people claiming revelatory gifts such as prophecy today. Their claims when made loudly enough to attract media attention fail even the minor testing that the press applies. I am not inclined to see media opinions as definitive but if a claimant offers a prophecy and it fails for various reasons then why ought any Christian to give it credence?

I heard the best accurate prophesies from totally unknown people in tiny churches. Also I think it was Lester Sumrall who gave a very accurate one to somebody. For the rest I don't know the big names and am not too interested in most of those, except for a few prophecies from the past.
 

MoreCoffee

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I heard the best accurate prophesies from totally unknown people in tiny churches. Also I think it was Lester Sumrall who gave a very accurate one to somebody. For the rest I don't know the big names and am not too interested in most of those, except for a few prophecies from the past.

In the holy scriptures a prophet's credibility was not measured by a few prophecies being true but rather by any being false. It was sufficient for one false prophecy to label a prophet as a false prophet.
 

Rens

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In the holy scriptures a prophet's credibility was not measured by a few prophecies being true but rather by any being false. It was sufficient for one false prophecy to label a prophet as a false prophet.
Yes but those were old testament prophets. I'm just speaking about regular believers with a gift of prophecy, just accurate words they speak over your life. If a New Testament prophet who also exist, it's one of the 5 gifts, errs, it doesn't matter so much, unless it's really evil and false. If they had to be 100 percent correct all the time Paul wouldn't have said that 2 or 3 should test it. 1 cor 13
But whether*there areprophecies, they will fail; whether*there are*tongues, they will cease; whetherthere is*knowledge, it will vanish away.9*For we know in part and we prophesy in part.*

There are enough pastors and teachers also who don't have everything correct and aren't immediately false. It depends on if it's real false teaching to lead people astray or that they believe a minor thing wrong and maybe later correct it.

The Holy Spirit now speaks to every believer, in the O.T. God spoke through a prophet to the people, that's quite a difference. If it's wrong too often though I don't listen anymore to that one.
One said that we would have a kid when I couldn't get them. He was accurate.
 

MoreCoffee

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Yes but those were old testament prophets. I'm just speaking about regular believers with a gift of prophecy, just accurate words they speak over your life. If a New Testament prophet who also exist, it's one of the 5 gifts, errs, it doesn't matter so much, unless it's really evil and false. If they had to be 100 percent correct all the time Paul wouldn't have said that 2 or 3 should test it. 1 cor 13
But whether*there areprophecies, they will fail; whether*there are*tongues, they will cease; whetherthere is*knowledge, it will vanish away.9*For we know in part and we prophesy in part.*

There are enough pastors and teachers also who don't have everything correct and aren't immediately false. It depends on if it's real false teaching to lead people astray or that they believe a minor thing wrong and maybe later correct it.

The Holy Spirit now speaks to every believer, in the O.T. God spoke through a prophet to the people, that's quite a difference. If it's wrong too often though I don't listen anymore to that one.
One said that we would have a kid when I couldn't get them. He was accurate.

The prophets in the old covenant received the Spirit who led them to prophesy and they spoke truth accurately in every word from God that they uttered. How can a Christian born of the Spirit speak untruth yet label it as the prophetic word of God to the people? Surely the New Covenant is much more the covenant of the Spirit in the church than was the case in the old? That being so we ought not expect less of a Christian prophet than God gave under the old covenant.
 

Rens

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The prophets in the old covenant received the Spirit who led them to prophesy and they spoke truth accurately in every word from God that they uttered. How can a Christian born of the Spirit speak untruth yet label it as the prophetic word of God to the people? Surely the New Covenant is much more the covenant of the Spirit in the church than was the case in the old? That being so we ought not expect less of a Christian prophet than God gave under the old covenant.

That's why most smart ones say: I think the Lord is saying so and so, instead of: thus sayeth the Lord. But the unknown ones in our church who gave a prophecy, which doesn't happen very often, it was never wrong. Also because noone can just give a prophecy, it first gets tested. Lol we had one woman who visited. I have a Word from God! He said: Nice! Write it down, so I can test it.
 
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