Praying to the deceased - correlation with those who believe in ghosts?

[psalms 91]

Yet our relationship is personal not just dogma of a church or denomination

 

[MoreCoffee]

Exactly, I do not seek to invent a religion of my own.

Yet our relationship is personal not just dogma of a church or denomination

Inventing new religions is no way to build sound faith in God. Catholics believe and live according to the faith once delivered to the saints. Others may do as they please.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

[psalms 91]

Inventing new religions is no way to build sound faith in God. Catholics believe and live according to the faith once delivered to the saints. Others may do as they please.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

If your relationship is not personal then I fear for you

 

[MoreCoffee]

If your relationship is not personal then I fear for you

Your fears are your affair.

 

[psalms 91]

And your belief is not based on personal relationship with Christ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

And your belief is not based on personal relationship with Christ?

No, your statement/question has no basis in anything I've written.

 

[psalms 91]

That says a lot if you dont know Christ personally but only by what is taught in youir church

 

[MoreCoffee]

That says a lot if you dont know Christ personally but only by what is taught in youir church

You express an unhealthy interest in my affairs. I am not inclined to cooperate with your unhealthy curiosity.

 

[psalms 91]

Im sure and other than your salvation I have no interest in what you do, you make yourself to important to me

 

[Josiah]

For Catholics authority rests with the holy scriptures and apostolic tradition and the teaching authority of the living Church of God.

The individual RC Denomination accepts only one authority: Itself.

In words verbatim identical to the LDS, the individual RCC also speaks of "the Three-Legged-Stool" as the Authority for it itself:

1) The current "TRADITION" of it itself exclusively as defined by, accepted by, and interpreted exclusively by it itself - the individual, singular RC Denomination, PLUS (inseparably)....
2) The MEANINGS of the "SCRIPTURES" as currently canonized by it itself and as interpreted by it itself exclusively and singularly (the meaning always "trumping" the written words), PLUS (inseperately)....
3) The LEADERSHIP of it itself exclusively as chosen by it itself individually from clergy of it itself pleaded to uphold the teachings and claims of it itself individually.

These three are supplemental.... so that if #1 says something that can't be found in 2 or 3 - it's still equally Authoritative and is "implied" in invisible words in the other two (but only it itself can "see" those invisible words). If # 3 says something that can't be found in #2 or 3, it's still equally Authoritative and implied in #1 and 2 albeit in invisible words that only it itself individually and exclusively can "see." For example, the Assumption of Mary is in #2 and #1 BECAUSE it is found in #3 - it itself stated so.


In discussing some RCC dogma with one of my Catholic teachers, I asked if that teaching was in the Bible. The teacher said (I think this is pretty much verbatim), "of course it is, because the Church speaks the Truth because God is speaking through her.... and the Bible speaks speaks the Truth and God is speaking through it.... and truth and God cannot contradict themselves." Accurate (if circular) Catholic teaching....... I'M right - so of course God agrees with ME (exclusively!) cuz God would be wrong if He didn't agree with ME. That's pretty much the constant, perpetual, central, foundational insistence of the individual RC Denomination. It itself insists that it itself is infallible, that when it itself speaks GOD HIMSELF is therefore teaching, that all are to docilicly submit to the Authority of it itself (as it itself stresses so often, for example, CCC 85 and 87).



Back to the issue of this thread.....



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Im sure and other than your salvation I have no interest in what you do, you make yourself to important to me

That is a relief. I can anticipate no more statements from you impugning me then?

 

[psalms 91]

Providing you dont post mroe doctrine that goes against what I believe, I have never attacked you personally at least that I know of

 

[Josiah]

IF I may.... please.....


I LIKE when people post things that either I don't believe or that are "new" to me. It's how I tend to learn and grow. If I only wanted "yes" men (and women), I'd find some closed, uber-regulated forum for just conservative Lutherans (they DO exist.... I AVOID them). IF all you do is look in the mirror and listen to yourself, you can't learn, can't be corrected, can't grow.... and probably can't determine truth.

What frustrates me are those who are "right" because they agree with themselves OR God spoke (privately, individually) JUST with themselves or the Holy Spirit only guides themselves. Those who seem to just parrot stuff and clearly never gave it a seconds thought. Those who seem DRIVEN not by a quest for truth or for love - but to shout louder than others and prove their disinterest in listening, learning, growing, sharing, discussing.

IMO, there is a tension. On the one hand, Christians are not relativist (or at least they aren't SUPPOSE to be, lol) - there IS truth. And we are to speak the truth WITH LOVE (lots forget that part). On the other hand, God is Lord and not self. HUMILITY is the basis of all good theology (to quote Luther) and mixed with love, the basis of all Christian behavior (including posting). CHRIST is truth - not self, not the brain of self, not the opinion of self, not the denomination of self, not even the INTEPRETATIONS by self (of Scripture or anything). Egoism.... individualism..... crowning of self as lord, God must agree with ME because I'm right.....(I can be the self that self sees in the mirror, or a denomination that looks at self in the mirror).... they are often the enemies of discussion. And at least one reason why we are LOCKED in disagreement, division, separation.




I have posted this MANY times at many websites.... it's not original with me (sadly, I never knew the source) but I like it....

A Confession for Web Theologians


I'm sorry

of pretending to know more than I do,
of speaking without listening,
of correcting without caring,
of passing judgment without understanding,
of talking at people instead of with people,
of using words that hurt and do not heal,
of writing without grace, charity, love and kindness,
of writing with arrogance and pride,
of being more critical than redemptive,
of presuming my words are more valuable than others’,
of uncovering problems without pointing to solutions,
of being more zealous for a system than for a Savior,
for I am a man of imperfect posts, and I write among a people of imperfect posts.

More of you Jesus
Amen




.

PAX Christi



- Josiah

 

[FredVB]

I am a bit curious if there is a correlation between those who pray to the deceased if they also believe that the deceased become ghosts who still walk the earth and haunt us?

I don't believe in ghosts but I know there are Christians who do and I think the evil spirits are just tricking y'all <_<

The dead shall rise, the redeemed will have their bodies made incorruptible for their spirits to unite with to come to their blessed future, the unregenerate to go to their judgment. There are actually changeless spirit beings, without physical form, though there are the manifesting manipulators among them, but those should not be trusted or communed with, they are not really any of the dead. Some, I think a great many, are sent from God, in a fight against effects of the evil. There are the evil ones as well, they may convince or try to convince some that they sense one of those dead that had been among them, but they are not them.

 

[FredVB]

What people call ghosts are generally what some say they see, robed spectres, though possibly other manifesting manipulators, but these changeless spirit beings are such that have been in the rebellion against Yahweh our God, Creator of us, and them. They are not of the dead from among us, though they attempt to pass themselves off as such at times. Some nonmanifesting manipulators try to pass as the dead from among us as well, for places we judge as haunted, doing things like moving items or causing noises. The dead who are animate are only those preserved animate dead which are in other realms where the dead of the unrepentant go, they are not animate in our world.

 

[atpollard]

CCT 2010 In explanation of this Commandment it should be accurately taught that the veneration and invocation of holy Angels and of the blessed who now enjoy the glory of heaven, and likewise the honour which the Catholic Church has always paid even to the bodies and ashes of the Saints, are not forbidden by this Commandment. If a king ordered that no one else should set himself up as king, or accept the honours due to the royal person, who would be so foolish as to infer that the sovereign was unwilling that suitable honour and respect should be paid to his magistrates?Now although Christians follow the example set by the Saints of the Old Law, and are said to adore the Angels, yet they do not give to Angels that honour which is due to God alone.

If I could ask a question, not as a challenge but just to understand what you are talking about.

• CCT2010 states “Now although Christians follow the example set by the Saints of the Old Law, and are said to adore the Angels, yet they do not give to Angels that honour which is due to God alone.”

When I did a word search for “adore” I came up with only two references in Song of Solomon (Song of Songs) chapter 1 that have NOTHING to do with angels. So what leads you (the Catholic church) to believe that the Saints of the Old Law “adored” angels?