What is sin?

[Alithis]

oh so "now ' your agreeing with repentance but tell me .. how do you repent of a sin you do not know your have done or are doing ?
how will you know it is a sin to be repented of ?

you will know because the holy Spirit will tell you .
and if you disobey him once he has made it known to you .. then you are rebelling in sin against that which is unambiguous and that which you know to be sin .
so when you speak of sin what sim is it you keep doing that makes you so knowledgeable about it .
i have always spoken of clear unambiguous sin.. but every one else keeps mentioning some undefinable "thing' ..

i suspect they do so rather than deal with some "actual sin " they are secretly continuing to commit .

 

[Lamb]

Josiah has never denied repentance. What he denies is that repentance is the cause of salvation.

 

[psalms 91]

The cause no, necessary yes

 

[Josiah]

oh so "now ' your agreeing with repentance but tell me .. how do you repent of a sin you do not know your have done or are doing ?

1. I'm the one who has been suggesting REPENTANCE is appropriate..... you are the one insisting that instead of that, in lieu of that, in place of that, we be obedient (and thus "hitting the mark" - absolute, divine perfection, holiness, love); I'm the one who has been quoting, "If you claim you have no sin, you deceive YOURSELF and are a LIAR" "You must be perfect in the same way as God in heaven is perfect." It's been MY position that, as Scripture says (but you keep ignoring and contradicting), NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one" "NO ONE is good but God exclusively." For ME, what is appropriate is falling to our knees before the God and crying, "God, be MERCIFUL to me - the sinner." This infuriates you and you CONSTANTLY, PERPETUALLY, in every thread you can twist to this topic, deny and oppose that insisting that Christians are perfect, sinless, or they are not justified, not saved, not Christians. It is you that has insisted that we are justified by being without need for such.

2 While repentance is ALWAYS, CONSTANTLY necessary and appropriate from believers who are SINFUL .... it is not the cause of our justification (making Jesus a sick joke, unnecessary, irrelevant since self saves self by repenting). It is your attack on the Gospel, your opposition to Jesus as Savior that has always been my concern and the issue I've addressed. It infuriates you and has caused you to (at least twice) place me on your ignore list - the proclaimation and defense of the Gospel that Jesus is the Savior so disturbs you that you must hide yourself from it.

if you disobey him once he has made it known to you .. then you are rebelling in sin against that which is unambiguous and that which you know to be sin .

We know that you disagree with Scripture which states, "NO ONE is rightious, no, not even one" "NO ONE is good but God exclusively." "NO ONE does what is right." "If you CLAIM to have no sin, you deceive yourself and LIE." Your constant claim about how we aren't justified if we disobey, if we are imperfect is unbliblical and simple reveals your pathetic confusion of Law and Gospel, sanctification and justification, self and Christ.... the reason for your opposition to the Gospel.... your belittling of Jesus and engrandizing of self.

You have watered down sin SO much as to make it meaningless.... and you have ignored the Gospel so much as to make it fundamentally unchristian (just the Jewish, Islamic, Hindu definition of HELP).

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT

Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.


.

The word "sin" literally means "to miss the mark" to come up short of what is commanded. What is commanded? Absolute, divine PERFECTION, HOLINESS, LOVE - 24/7. In thought, word and deed. If you fall short of all that, then you miss the mark - and you sin, you disobey. Your insistence that you OBEY, and you don't sin is necessary for your opposition and hatred of the Gospel and your belittling of Jesus and engrandizing of yourself, but it is very unbiblical and unchristian. AND it simply ADDS to your "falling short" your sin because First John 1:10 says that's a LIE and thus a sin.





Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Is there agreement about what sins is yet?

 

[psalms 91]

I hope so, it really isnt that difficult

 

[MoreCoffee]

I hope so, it really isnt that difficult

It must be difficult if after 47 posts folk are still arguing about it.

 

[Alithis]

Josiah has never denied repentance. What he denies is that repentance is the cause of salvation.

No one else has said rhat either.. And im not interested in a 3rd party discussion.i replied to what you posted.

If i wanted to address him i would do so.but i have him on ignore due to the constant personal attack tone of his posts making false accusation.
But you and one other keep purposly posting his posts.as your replies to me.
Then you will berate me for mentioning i have him on ignore..
Hardly fair.

But since you reply using his words i am asressing you as if you said it.

So again ..no one has said repentance is a cause. Repentance is an action of obedience to the instructions given in the gospel tling us to repent.
To change our mind.
The next action we are commanded to do is be baptized for the remission of oursin.
Then. it is declared that we will receive the promised holy Spirit.
Then the scriptures go on to e.courage to walk worthy of the giftgivenus..tobuild on that foundation
To obey the holy spirit
To bring forth fruit
Etc.
The scripture never tells us "right..your saved now do nothing.
Quite the oppisite,it warns of thegreat danger of doing nothing or of following our own will and mind.

 

[Alithis]

Is there agreement about what sins is yet?

Haha.. Which ..percieved sin,which is as varied as peoples opinion.
Or direct unambiguous sin as defined by the absolutes of the 10 commandments ?

 

[Lamb]

No one else has said rhat either.. And im not interested in a 3rd party discussion.i replied to what you posted.

If i wanted to address him i would do so.but i have him on ignore due to the constant personal attack tone of his posts making false accusation.
But you and one other keep purposly posting his posts.as your replies to me.
Then you will berate me for mentioning i have him on ignore..
Hardly fair.

But since you reply using his words i am asressing you as if you said it.

So again ..no one has said repentance is a cause. Repentance is an action of obedience to the instructions given in the gospel tling us to repent.
To change our mind.
The next action we are commanded to do is be baptized for the remission of oursin.
Then. it is declared that we will receive the promised holy Spirit.
Then the scriptures go on to e.courage to walk worthy of the giftgivenus..tobuild on that foundation
To obey the holy spirit
To bring forth fruit
Etc.
The scripture never tells us "right..your saved now do nothing.
Quite the oppisite,it warns of thegreat danger of doing nothing or of following our own will and mind.

All those things you list are God working in us. How about just saying that?

 

[visionary]

oh so "now ' your agreeing with repentance but tell me .. how do you repent of a sin you do not know your have done or are doing ?
how will you know it is a sin to be repented of ?

you will know because the holy Spirit will tell you .
and if you disobey him once he has made it known to you .. then you are rebelling in sin against that which is unambiguous and that which you know to be sin .
so when you speak of sin what sim is it you keep doing that makes you so knowledgeable about it .
i have always spoken of clear unambiguous sin.. but every one else keeps mentioning some undefinable "thing' ..

i suspect they do so rather than deal with some "actual sin " they are secretly continuing to commit .

When you go to God in earnest regarding if there is any sins between you and Him, He will open up your mind to incidents, and if you ask why, He will explain the root, seed, branches, and fruits of that event so that you can clearly see the atrocities that can go through the family into the fourth generation. When you see it the way God sees it, even "little" sins can have huge effects, and the repulsiveness of it will soon become clear. God is the only one who can truly help you see, and understand the depths of depravity, death, destruction, disease, and desolation that it can cause.

 

[psalms 91]

When you go to God in earnest regarding if there is any sins between you and Him, He will open up your mind to incidents, and if you ask why, He will explain the root, seed, branches, and fruits of that event so that you can clearly see the atrocities that can go through the family into the fourth generation. When you see it the way God sees it, even "little" sins can have huge effects, and the repulsiveness of it will soon become clear. God is the only one who can truly help you see, and understand the depths of depravity, death, destruction, disease, and desolation that it can cause.

What a wonderful and comprehensive post, unfortunately to many claim to be blind and deaf concerning hearing God

 

[visionary]

What a wonderful and comprehensive post, unfortunately to many claim to be blind and deaf concerning hearing God

Yep...

 

[Josiah]

This is what I "hear" from God (and I don't challenge His accuracy or exempt self uniquely from such)....


What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood." (Which means every inclination of MY heart is evil from my birth)

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one." (Which means I do not do good, I miss the mark - the definition of sin)

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively." ( Which means I'm not good since I'm not God)

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us." (Which means IF I was SO egotistical as to claim to be obedient, I'd be a liar and calling God a liar)



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." (which means since I'm imperfect, I'm not obedient and I'm falling short, missing the mark - which is the definition of sin)

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy." (Which means that since I'm not as holy as God 24/7, I'm not obedient and I'm falling short, missing the mark - which is the definition of sin)

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you." (Which means since I don't love all 7.3 billion people as much as God loved me on the Cross, I'm not obedient and I'm falling short, missing the mark - which is the definition of sin)

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did." (Since I don't live without sin and with perfect love, I'm not obedient and I'm falling short, missing the mark which is the definition of sin)

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



The word literally means "to miss the mark." In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."




Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



I don't NEED to personally hear some "small voice" speaking uniquely to me. I don't NEED the Holy Spirit to have a private chat with me.... I don't NEED to have the ability or openness to audibly hear the Holy Spirit speaking words to ME (personally and uniquely).... all I need is to READ what the Holy Spirit has told us all, in objective, knowable, black-and-white words. And the HUMILITY to accept it and not call Him a lair. Those who claim to be obedient, claim to be without sin, claim to be hitting the mark are - to verbatim quote the objective words of the Holy Spirit - lying and calling God a liar. Even if they CLAIM to have heard the Holy Spirit telling THEM, "But YOU are the singular, unique, sole exception to this for YOU obey, YOU fulfill, YOU do all God has commanded, YOU are divinely and absolutely perfect and holy and loving just as much as God is, you never miss the mark and thus never sin and thus need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no mercy cuz you are you!" Some may CLAIM to have heard the Holy Spirit saying taht uniquely to self alone but personally, I'd question the claim.




Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah


.

 

[visionary]

Put your finger on the verse.. seek Him with all your heart... Ask and it shall be given unto you... Search and you will find.

 

[MoreCoffee]

 

[visionary]

Put your finger on the verse.. seek Him with all your heart... Ask and it shall be given unto you... Search and you will find.

Get real with God and He will get real with you... Sometimes, people have so shut out the small voice that when they even do this, they can not believe that the small voice they have been brushing aside is God's.

 

[visionary]

Who determined them venial?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who determined them venial?

God did.

 

[visionary]

God did.

Where in scripture does it say venial?