Can those called to serve forgive sins?

[visionary]

Forgiving sins is not a power invested in clergy. Forgiving sins is something Yeshua would like to see us all do, 70 x 7, if necessary. Yeshua is the only mediator of sins blotted out of our Book of Life where it really counts for all eternity.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Forgiving sins is not a power invested in clergy. Forgiving sins is something Yeshua would like to see us all do, 70 x 7, if necessary. Yeshua is the only mediator of sins blotted out of our Book of Life where it really counts for all eternity.

The passage is saint John's gospel says both forgive and retain.

 

[visionary]

The passage is saint John's gospel says both forgive and retain.

retain?

 

[Josiah]

Forgiving sins is not a power invested in clergy. Forgiving sins is something Yeshua would like to see us all do, 70 x 7, if necessary. Yeshua is the only mediator of sins blotted out of our Book of Life where it really counts for all eternity.

I agree. After all, Jesus did not teach us to pray, ".... forgive us our trespasses as an officially ordained clergymen of only the unique Roman Catholic Denomination first forgave some Catholic....." We are ALL told to forgive. And nowhere is anything stated about ONLY those currently officially ordained men of the singular, unique RC Denomination being able to.




.

 

[Full O Beans]

I'm referring to Priests, Pastors, those called to serve/ordained clergy, etc.

We are ALL called to forgive others for their trespasses against us, but for sins in order for one to be made whole again in Christ? NO. No one can do that but God, by the blood of Jesus.

 

[psalms 91]

We are ALL called to forgive others for their trespasses against us, but for sins in order for one to be made whole again in Christ? NO. No one can do that but God, by the blood of Jesus.

Exactly no matter what some denoms say, man cannot do that

 

[Josiah]

Exactly no matter what some denoms say, man cannot do that

When WE forgive, that comes from us. Yes, where there is repentance and faith, we are mandated to do that. I agree, GOD forgiving is a different matter (one not exclusively the issue of this thread).

Of course, such is not the same as GOD forgiving that person. However, where there is repentance and faith, God DOES so forgive (He promises it). Thus, it is appropriate for us to APPLY and ANNOUNCE God's forgiveness.... however, such would always be conditional since we (unlike God) cannot know if faith and repentance are present (WE can only "go" on what people say). Thus, while anyone can say, "in the name of God, I announce His forgiveness" however, it would be conditional, based on the person's CLAIM of repentance and faith. It would be best to add, "Upon your confession, I announce God's forgiveness of your sins."

 

[NewCreation435]

Only God can forgive sins

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk

 

[Krissy Cakes]

Only Jesus can forgive no man can

Yep right there.

 

[TurtleHare]

Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to his disciples.
On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." (John 20:19-23)

This answers the OPs questions right here and it's Jesus who gave the authority and not by man's doing.

 

[Josiah]

Yep right there.

Many times, WE are told to forgive sins. In His model prayer, Jesus teaches us to pray ".... forgive us our sins as WE FORGIVE....." This petition makes no sense if we cannot forgive sins.

But 2 things need to be said:

1. OUR forgiveness comes from US (not necessarily from God.... when I sin, I need to seek the forgiveness BOTH of the person AND God)

2. OUR forgiveness is only possible because of Jesus, THE Savior.... because of HIS mercy..... because of HIS life, death and resurrection.


Now, in terms of forgiveness from GOD, I believe that ALL may ANNOUNCE/APPLY God's forgiveness since God PROMISES to forgive us where there is repentance and faith (He MAY do so even if there is not, as in the Roman executioners at the foot of the Cross, but He PROMISES to do so where there is repentance and faith). Therefore, we may announce/apply GOD'S forgiveness where there is repentance and faith. It's not OUR forgiveness, it's the announcement of GOD'S forgiveness. But of course, such is conditional..... unlike God, we cannot KNOW if repentance and faith are present, all we can do is ACCEPT what the person professes, all we can do is ASSUME the person is being honest. Thus, our announcement is always, "UPON THIS CONFESSION...... I announce the mercy and forgiveness of God to you."



Pax Christi



- Josiah

 

[visionary]

Many times, WE are told to forgive sins. In His model prayer, Jesus teaches us to pray ".... forgive us our sins as WE FORGIVE....." This petition makes no sense if we cannot forgive sins.

But 2 things need to be said:

1. OUR forgiveness comes from US (not necessarily from God.... when I sin, I need to seek the forgiveness BOTH of the person AND God)

2. OUR forgiveness is only possible because of Jesus, THE Savior.... because of HIS mercy..... because of HIS life, death and resurrection.


Now, in terms of forgiveness from GOD, I believe that ALL may ANNOUNCE/APPLY God's forgiveness since God PROMISES to forgive us where there is repentance and faith (He MAY do so even if there is not, as in the Roman executioners at the foot of the Cross, but He PROMISES to do so where there is repentance and faith). Therefore, we may announce/apply GOD'S forgiveness where there is repentance and faith. It's not OUR forgiveness, it's the announcement of GOD'S forgiveness. But of course, such is conditional..... unlike God, we cannot KNOW if repentance and faith are present, all we can do is ACCEPT what the person professes, all we can do is ASSUME the person is being honest. Thus, our announcement is always, "UPON THIS CONFESSION...... I announce the mercy and forgiveness of God to you."



Pax Christi



- Josiah

Do you depend upon the priest's declaration, to believe God forgave?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I'm referring to Priests, Pastors, those called to serve/ordained clergy, etc.

No. In the Presbyterian church I attended, part of the service was silent prayer/confession of sins, followed by an 'Assurance of Pardon'. The Pastor would assure the congregation of their forgiveness in Christ, but would not, himself, extend forgiveness or pardon.
This is a position we all should take (imo) recognizing that "...there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5). He is in need of no other 'mediator'.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

As MoreCoffee pointed out with scripture, Jesus gave the keys to the Church. We call our pastors/priests through the church to serve and part of that serving is to give us the forgiveness that Jesus won at the cross after we confess our sins in repentance. This is not the forgiveness of the pastors/priests, but the forgiveness that Jesus died for.

Ah, but it is - else there would be no need for the Pastor/Priest to extend forgiveness, but to focus our vision on the One who can forgive.

 

[TurtleHare]

No. In the Presbyterian church I attended, part of the service was silent prayer/confession of sins, followed by an 'Assurance of Pardon'. The Pastor would assure the congregation of their forgiveness in Christ, but would not, himself, extend forgiveness or pardon.
This is a position we all should take (imo) recognizing that "...there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5). He is in need of no other 'mediator'.

Sure, anyone can proclaim the forgiveness but Jesus actually told his disciples that if they forgave or retained sins that it would be true and if you think about a warden giving out keys to jail cells, he's actually giving out the pardon that the king set into place and isn't just telling the prisoners they're forgiven and are free, but he has the keys to give them that freedom too.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Many times, WE are told to forgive sins. In His model prayer, Jesus teaches us to pray ".... forgive us our sins as WE FORGIVE....." This petition makes no sense if we cannot forgive sins.

But 2 things need to be said:

1. OUR forgiveness comes from US (not necessarily from God.... when I sin, I need to seek the forgiveness BOTH of the person AND God)

2. OUR forgiveness is only possible because of Jesus, THE Savior.... because of HIS mercy..... because of HIS life, death and resurrection.


Now, in terms of forgiveness from GOD, I believe that ALL may ANNOUNCE/APPLY God's forgiveness since God PROMISES to forgive us where there is repentance and faith (He MAY do so even if there is not, as in the Roman executioners at the foot of the Cross, but He PROMISES to do so where there is repentance and faith). Therefore, we may announce/apply GOD'S forgiveness where there is repentance and faith. It's not OUR forgiveness, it's the announcement of GOD'S forgiveness. But of course, such is conditional..... unlike God, we cannot KNOW if repentance and faith are present, all we can do is ACCEPT what the person professes, all we can do is ASSUME the person is being honest. Thus, our announcement is always, "UPON THIS CONFESSION...... I announce the mercy and forgiveness of God to you."



Pax Christi



- Josiah

There is a vast difference between what you've said here, and the Pastor/Priest explicitly forgiving sins, unless I missed something. I agree with your post wholeheartedly.

 

[TurtleHare]

There is a vast difference between what you've said here, and the Pastor/Priest explicitly forgiving sins, unless I missed something. I agree with your post wholeheartedly.

The way I was taught is that it isn't the pastor/priest forgiving but giving out forgiveness because of Christ and that's a huge distinction don't you think because when we think of a pastor forgiving then he's running the verbs. Jesus forgives the sins but works through the pastors to hand out that forgiveness when a Christian confesses and repents of sins and it's not just hearing we're forgiven but we're getting forgiven and again not due to anything on the pastor's part but Jesus instead.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Sure, anyone can proclaim the forgiveness but Jesus actually told his disciples that if they forgave or retained sins that it would be true and if you think about a warden giving out keys to jail cells, he's actually giving out the pardon that the king set into place and isn't just telling the prisoners they're forgiven and are free, but he has the keys to give them that freedom too.

However, it is still under the authority of the Warden, the one with the keys has not freed them from anything. He is merely announcing what the Warden has done.

 

[TurtleHare]

However, it is still under the authority of the Warden, the one with the keys has not freed them from anything. He is merely announcing what the Warden has done.

The warden is acting on the orders of the king, is he not and then he goes and follows through on what the King has ordained and not just announcing but giving out the freedom. It isn't the Warden's decision to do so but the Kings and it isn't the Warden's freedom being given but the King has made it so already so he's doling out what is already set in place to be handed out.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

The way I was taught is that it isn't the pastor/priest forgiving but giving out forgiveness because of Christ and that's a huge distinction don't you think because when we think of a pastor forgiving then he's running the verbs. Jesus forgives the sins but works through the pastors to hand out that forgiveness when a Christian confesses and repents of sins and it's not just hearing we're forgiven but we're getting forgiven and again not due to anything on the pastor's part but Jesus instead.

"Getting forgiven" by the Pastor/Priest has everything to do with the Pastor/Priest. Subsequently we can't say it doesn't. Assuring one of the forgiveness of Christ bypasses the Pastor/Priest and re-focuses our vision on Christ who is the only one to forgive.