Baptism by sprinkling

[TurtleHare]

They should a lot of the things within your church are taken straight from the Jewish. Mikcvahs point to something concerning baptism.

And yet it's not a Mikvah but a baptism so what is a baptism then besides that water that seems so important here to some instead of the true importance that pertain to the Savior and how it is connected?

 

[Lamb]

In them there is no command to submerge nor to pour nor to sprinkle so when a claim is made that because Jews submerge in this or that religious rite of rabbinic Judaism today or did so in some century after the first century of the Christian era it is quite irrelevant to what Christians ought to do in Christian baptism.

Isn't it odd how God gives us such great benefits in baptism yet it's man that has to make up all the strict details, must immerse...when God doesn't state that? Why do they ignore what happens in baptism and focus instead on the amount of water?

 

[Alithis]

the one way to know if it has been done in obedience with true repentance ..is simply this

and you will recieve the promised holy Spirit .. for the lord Jesus will baptise you with the Holy Ghost and fire .

the lord always acknowledges true obedience in this matter with signs and wonders confirming his truth .
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

if none of these things have any place in you then you have not received the promised holy Spirit.no matter what some man wearing a fancy robe said when he put his hand on you (it is not man who baptises in the holy Spirit- it is the Lord ). the lord Jesus said there signs will (not might ) follow those who believe .

 

[Stravinsk]

This will all be evident when the dead are raised on the last day. One will look, and all around, there will be people rising. Among them, though, there will be sprinkles of people. An eye, a tooth, maybe the vague outline of a forehead and a few drops of a torso. These are the people who have been "sprinkled" like colored sugar over a doughnut.

LOL.

 

[Alithis]

the one way to know if it has been done in obedience with true repentance ..is simply this

and you will recieve the promised holy Spirit .. for the lord Jesus will baptise you with the Holy Ghost and fire .

the lord always acknowledges true obedience in this matter with signs and wonders confirming his truth .
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

if none of these things have any place in you then you have not received the promised holy Spirit.no matter what some man wearing a fancy robe said when he put his hand on you (it is not man who baptises in the holy Spirit- it is the Lord ). the lord Jesus said there signs will (not might ) follow those who believe .

 

[Stravinsk]

the one way to know if it has been done in obedience with true repentance ..is simply this

and you will recieve the promised holy Spirit .. for the lord Jesus will baptise you with the Holy Ghost and fire .

the lord always acknowledges true obedience in this matter with signs and wonders confirming his truth .
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

if none of these things have any place in you then you have not received the promised holy Spirit.no matter what some man wearing a fancy robe said when he put his hand on you (it is not man who baptises in the holy Spirit- it is the Lord ). the lord Jesus said there signs will (not might ) follow those who believe .

I've yet to meet a believer who would actually do this. Would you?

PS: Notwithstanding I don't believe Mark is a completely reliable gospel - even if it were - the text you are quoting from is missing from the earliest manuscripts.

 

[visionary]

And yet it's not a Mikvah but a baptism so what is a baptism then besides that water that seems so important here to some instead of the true importance that pertain to the Savior and how it is connected?

Mikvah- Hebrew term. Baptism - Greek term.. same thing.

 

[Alithis]

I've yet to meet a believer who would actually do this. Would you?

PS: Notwithstanding I don't believe Mark is a completely reliable gospel - even if it were - the text you are quoting from is missing from the earliest manuscripts.

yeah we know . your an unbeliever ..one who does not believe , one who has not yet repented of unbelief.



as for the question,, yes we lay hands of the sick and they recover ,speak in other tongues and cast our demons ... haven't had a snake attack me and thus far no one poisoned me ..though i suspect some here would like to lol

here is some "normal chrsitian life " -> www.thelastreformation.com check out the movie .

 

[MoreCoffee]

Isn't it odd how God gives us such great benefits in baptism yet it's man that has to make up all the strict details, must immerse...when God doesn't state that? Why do they ignore what happens in baptism and focus instead on the amount of water?

Maybe the focus is on submersion because it is what distinguishes their groups from the others? A point of difference in practise magnified into a great doctrinal rift.

 

[Stravinsk]

yeah we know . your an unbeliever ..one who does not believe , one who has not yet repented of unbelief.



as for the question,, yes we lay hands of the sick and they recover ,speak in other tongues and cast our demons ... haven't had a snake attack me and thus far no one poisoned me ..though i suspect some here would like to lol

here is some "normal chrsitian life " -> www.thelastreformation.com check out the movie .

Actually, I am a believer, just not LIKE YOU. I've said plenty of times I believe select parts of the bible, and as far as the NT goes, I esteem Yeshua's hand picked disciples, Matthew and John - and not the others to varying degrees and for various reasons, especially Saul/Paul of Tarsus. I know you know that I have made this distinction, and yet you call me an unbeliever.

That, Alithis, is solely your bias and insofar as I have made the distinction and you wish to ignore it in your proclamations - your lie. You pride yourself on believing the whole bible and look down your nose at anyone who does not, yet you have yet to answer my questions in the Speculative Theology section, and most of your positions and judgements of others here seem to revolve around the idea that because (you say) you believe the whole of the canon of OT and NT and others have doubts - you are the true blue Christian and everyone else fails to measure up.

I could care less. To me, you are nothing more than another proud Xian, full of your self and in true Xian style, in full competition with your brothers.

As for the part you "answered" regarding my last post. Perhaps you did not read the bold. It refers to deadly poison - not the off chance that you might get bitten by a snake and receive it through such means - but actually drinking it KNOWING what it is - willingly - through the faith you say you have.

As I said, I have yet to meet one person willing to do this - and I bet you are no different. Despite your bold assertions, anyone serving you the most deadly poison in the world I'm guessing you'd knock it back, with some excuse or another, but at the same time you claim drinking such proves you are "true blue" - not an unbeliever or faker like everyone else.

I don't believe it. Not of you, and not of the majority of people calling themselves Christian. I think that the standard you have set for yourself ultimately proves the hypocrisy of individuals claiming it, and I have no problem saying so, nor do I have any problem disbelieving that the words you quoted in the aforementioned text are not the words of Yeshua. Mark, after all, was not a flesh and blood witness to Messiah. Even if his Gospel were completely reliable (because it's in the Canon) - this doesn't negate the fact the words you quote are not even in the earliest manuscripts of Mark's gospel.

 

[Alithis]

Actually, I am a believer, just not LIKE YOU. I've said plenty of times I believe select parts of the bible, and as far as the NT goes, I esteem Yeshua's hand picked disciples, Matthew and John - and not the others to varying degrees and for various reasons, especially Saul/Paul of Tarsus. I know you know that I have made this distinction, and yet you call me an unbeliever.

That, Alithis, is solely your bias and insofar as I have made the distinction and you wish to ignore it in your proclamations - your lie. You pride yourself on believing the whole bible and look down your nose at anyone who does not, yet you have yet to answer my questions in the Speculative Theology section, and most of your positions and judgements of others here seem to revolve around the idea that because (you say) you believe the whole of the canon of OT and NT and others have doubts - you are the true blue Christian and everyone else fails to measure up.

I could care less. To me, you are nothing more than another proud Xian, full of your self and in true Xian style, in full competition with your brothers.

As for the part you "answered" regarding my last post. Perhaps you did not read the bold. It refers to deadly poison - not the off chance that you might get bitten by a snake and receive it through such means - but actually drinking it KNOWING what it is - willingly - through the faith you say you have.

As I said, I have yet to meet one person willing to do this - and I bet you are no different. Despite your bold assertions, anyone serving you the most deadly poison in the world I'm guessing you'd knock it back, with some excuse or another, but at the same time you claim drinking such proves you are "true blue" - not an unbeliever or faker like everyone else.

I don't believe it. Not of you, and not of the majority of people calling themselves Christian. I think that the standard you have set for yourself ultimately proves the hypocrisy of individuals claiming it, and I have no problem saying so, nor do I have any problem disbelieving that the words you quoted in the aforementioned text are not the words of Yeshua. Mark, after all, was not a flesh and blood witness to Messiah. Even if his Gospel were completely reliable (because it's in the Canon) - this doesn't negate the fact the words you quote are not even in the earliest manuscripts of Mark's gospel.

yes exactly .. your dont believe the "other parts" .. to not believe .. hence an unbeliever . its a bit like selective hearing .

and it does not say you are to willingly drink poison lol... it gives no such directive . and your focussing on 1 aspect to ignore the others .. purposely . and why.. ? because as you said .. "you do not believe" . one cannot experience the promises of God through unbelief .. it is the one thing that causes a person to miss out on the promises and perish . (but you probably dont believe those scripture either . ) but hey call me some more names -that wil make you right ....

 

[Stravinsk]

yes exactly .. your dont believe the "other parts" .. to not believe .. hence an unbeliever . its a bit like selective hearing .

*rolls eyes*. Hence a person who prefers blanket labels based on their own bias and selective definitions of what makes a believer. Still waiting for your "spirit inspired" answer to my questions in Speculative Theology. Still waiting also, for Yeshua's endorsement of the canon of the NT? Oh wait...you can't provide it.

and it does not say you are to willingly drink poison lol... it gives no such directive . and your focussing on 1 aspect to ignore the others .. purposely . and why.. ? because as you said .. "you do not believe" . one cannot experience the promises of God through unbelief .. it is the one thing that causes a person to miss out on the promises and perish . (but you probably dont believe those scripture either . ) but hey call me some more names -that wil make you right ....

Your willingness or not is not the issue. You quoted Mark in setting your measure. That passage does not make a distinction on "knowing" or "unknowing" or "willing" and "unwilling". Those are not considerations. You will either drink deadly poison and through faith have it not hurt you or you wont.

My guess is that if it's offered, you wouldn't drink.

I don't believe this passage in Mark's Gospel is Scripture.

You do.

So who's the unbeliever, mate?

 

[Alithis]

*rolls eyes*. Hence a person who prefers blanket labels based on their own bias and selective definitions of what makes a believer. Still waiting for your "spirit inspired" answer to my questions in Speculative Theology. Still waiting also, for Yeshua's endorsement of the canon of the NT? Oh wait...you can't provide it.



Your willingness or not is not the issue. You quoted Mark in setting your measure. That passage does not make a distinction on "knowing" or "unknowing" or "willing" and "unwilling". Those are not considerations. You will either drink deadly poison and through faith have it not hurt you or you wont.

My guess is that if it's offered, you wouldn't drink.

I don't believe this passage in Mark's Gospel is Scripture.

You do.

So who's the unbeliever, mate?

you .. obviously... you said" you dont believe .. "

 

[Stravinsk]

you .. obviously... you said" you dont believe .. "

In the passage in Mark 16 you used as a measure for who is or isn't a believer? That's correct - I don't believe that what you quoted from Mark (16:9-20) - is reliable or true. I'm not about to handle snakes or drink deadly poison, for starters. I won't because my actions in these things will be consistent with my belief that this passage in Mark 16 is not reliable or true.

You, however, have set it up as a measure of a true believer.

Yet, you won't drink deadly poison to show your own belief. Your own statements make it clear you wouldn't willingly do it. This makes you a hypocrite and a liar insofar as your own test goes. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the plainness of it.

 

[psalms 91]

We should not tempt God, I believe that He can bring us through these things but to do it on purpose? Dnt think so

 

[Stravinsk]

We should not tempt God, I believe that He can bring us through these things but to do it on purpose? Dnt think so

I suggest reading the passage in Mark 16 closely. How does one handle a snake "accidentally"? The gist of the passage is people doing these things (talking in tongues, handling snakes, casting out demons and drinking poison) all in faith - which means, by definition - they are doing it knowingly.

Alithis won't, and so won't many other believers. The snake handlers/poison drinkers are a very small minority, and from what I've read/seen about them, many are not strangers to hospitals after participating in such things.

 

[psalms 91]

Have never been around that but I have heard and spoke messages in toungues that were interpreted, have also participated in and seen people delivered. They are real just as the dark side is real as you or I.

 

[MoreCoffee]

As eccentric as some of Stravisk's views may seem he clearly believes a number of the books of the holy scriptures. The number he believes is less than the seventy three that constitute the canon defined by the ancient Church but is that not also so with you Alithis? For you the number may be 66. How many books in the holy scriptures command that one must be submerged in order for one's baptism to be true Christian baptism? None? Yes, not one book in the holy scriptures commands Christians to be submerged in baptism.

 

[TurtleHare]

Mikvah- Hebrew term. Baptism - Greek term.. same thing.

Absolutely not the same thing because you are stripping God from what the Christian baptism truly is by trying to call it a mikvah and by doing that it is an injustice. You are throwing out the cross and the Savior and all the connections of what baptism and as i said before thinking it is just some water. But water is water and the Christian baptism has much more substance.

 

[Josiah]

How many books in the holy scriptures command that one must be submerged in order for one's baptism to be true Christian baptism? None? Yes, not one book in the holy scriptures commands Christians to be submerged in baptism.

Irrefutable. NOTHING has been presented - from a canonical book or any other from ancient times - that mandates a certain amount of water must be applied or mandates a certain mode of application of said amount of water must be employed. Nothing. Anywhere.



Pax


- Josiah