Baptism by sprinkling

Alithis

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In the passage in Mark 16 you used as a measure for who is or isn't a believer? That's correct - I don't believe that what you quoted from Mark (16:9-20) - is reliable or true. I'm not about to handle snakes or drink deadly poison, for starters. I won't because my actions in these things will be consistent with my belief that this passage in Mark 16 is not reliable or true.

You, however, have set it up as a measure of a true believer.

Yet, you won't drink deadly poison to show your own belief. Your own statements make it clear you wouldn't willingly do it. This makes you a hypocrite and a liar insofar as your own test goes. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the plainness of it.

exactly .. you keep saying .. "you dont believe "

so -your an unbeliever .. we have that well established now , your a deist ..you dont believe many things from scripture -your an unbeliever
 

MoreCoffee

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Since no passage in the holy scriptures and no apostolic tradition requires that a man or woman be submerged in order to be truly baptised as a Christian is it not wicked to teach that such a requirement is binding upon the faithful?
 

Stravinsk

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Alithis

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Probably of relevance to the thread, although personally I can't see why God would be fussed over it, especially to the nescient (note - nescient does not mean "ignorant") - it's a state of never having the opportunity to know, where as 'ignorant' carries with it a purposeful ignore aspect.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G907&t=KJV

from root:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G911&t=KJV

lol i do like your digs.. (even if they be at me haha )
but yes..it is relevant to the thread topic .., well actually, ..it IS the topic .

and the use of "sprinkling" in regard to obedience of the command to be baptised is where ?
 
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Lamb

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It's the use of water for baptism and God has attached promises by His Word through those waters. The amount is never demanded, requested, etc...that's man's doing to try to legalize and get the focus off what God's doing for His people.
 

Alithis

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It's the use of water for baptism and God has attached promises by His Word through those waters. The amount is never demanded, requested, etc...that's man's doing to try to legalize and get the focus off what God's doing for His people.

im disappointed in your reaction..
its been rather plainly shown now .. it means TO DIP the term sprinkle does not even come close ..
it is an invention of rome .


https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...ngs=G911&t=KJV -coutresy of the partial beleiver stravinsk who is as least honest about his stances (regarldss of my meargre opinions )and neutral eough to share it with us .
 

MoreCoffee

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"It" means wash and the washing may be by dipping, submerging, using a sponge, pouring, sprinkling or any other method of washing with water. Baptism is often by immersion (not necessarily submersion) and often is by pouring. I do not quite get why those who oppose baptism by pouring and sprinkling are so fixated on submersion.
 

TurtleHare

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Did God say Get Wet? Don't y'all see that He uses the water but it isn't only to get yourself wet but He is actually marking you as His own in baptism. It isn't what you are doing since you seem to think you're just getting to play in the water and you become Blind to the truth of all he's doing through those waters that it's such a shame.
 

Alithis

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Did God say Get Wet? Don't y'all see that He uses the water but it isn't only to get yourself wet but He is actually marking you as His own in baptism. It isn't what you are doing since you seem to think you're just getting to play in the water and you become Blind to the truth of all he's doing through those waters that it's such a shame.

we are more then aware and have the joy that upon obedience to his word to be baptized into HIs death by burial and rise again into his resurrection, he acknowledge that obedience by the out pouring of his Holy Spirit ...
he always acknowledges true obedience .
that may well be why such things are not experience by those who got sprinkled ..they did so without thier knowledge or will and have not yet repented of sin .

the word baptize has its biblical meaning and use listed here . https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...ngs=G911&t=KJV
 

Alithis

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"It" means wash and the washing may be by dipping, submerging, using a sponge, pouring, sprinkling or any other method of washing with water. Baptism is often by immersion (not necessarily submersion) and often is by pouring. I do not quite get why those who oppose baptism by pouring and sprinkling are so fixated on submersion.
i have come to expect not honesty from you .. it means to dip in the biblical use and it is tied directly to BURIAL and resurrection.. not showering
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...ngs=G911&t=KJV

sof such high regard you have for the traditions of men you wil not let go of them because your thinking your "church " can save you .it has not and cannot .
 

Lamb

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MoreCoffee

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Page not found.

Baptism as defined by some Baptists and those similar will of course eliminate from their description "to wash" but yet couches were baptized in the New Testament and they weren't immersed but "washed".

I reminded them of that many posts ago but they ignored it. I no longer expect serious replies from them.
 

TurtleHare

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we are more then aware and have the joy that upon obedience to his word to be baptized into HIs death by burial and rise again into his resurrection, he acknowledge that obedience by the out pouring of his Holy Spirit ...
he always acknowledges true obedience .
that may well be why such things are not experience by those who got sprinkled ..they did so without thier knowledge or will and have not yet repented of sin .

the word baptize has its biblical meaning and use listed here . https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...ngs=G911&t=KJV

What absolute nonsense to infer that God can't baptize anyone without submersion and be able to give His children the gift of the Holy Spirit as he promises in the book of Acts. How totally dishonest to put things in your style.
 

Josiah

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The apologetic that "baptism" means "dip" is simply, categorically WRONG. I gave just one of many, many pages that clearly denounces this absurdity (I gave the one from CARM since Matt Slick is a darling of some "Evangelical" apologists).

This obsession with the AMOUNT of water involved is - curious. Firstly, because they refuse to say what amount is mandated (one ounce, one gallon - they REFUSE to say!), and secondly because nowhere else does the AMOUNT of something matter to them. Do they insist that in Communion one must apply at least 12 ounces of Weber's White bread and 16 ounces of Welches Grape Juice? Nope - ANY amount is just fine. But in Baptism, the only thing that matters (the ONLY thing that matters) is the amount of water involved. In preaching, it is mandated a sermon be 49 minitues long and contain 1,000 verbs? Nope. In worship, MUST it include at least 82 minitues of singing and 31 minutes of reading Scripture? Nope. Amazing.



- Josiah
 

Alithis

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Lamb

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The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 907 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
baptizo from a derivative of (911)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Baptizo 1:529,92
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
bap-tid'-zo
Definition

to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm
 

MoreCoffee

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For those keen on lexicography here's a nice long and rather detailed entry from "The Complete Word Study Dictionary":
βαπτίζω
baptízō; fut. baptísō, from báptō (G911), to dip. Immerse, submerge for a religious purpose, to overwhelm, saturate, baptize (Joh 1:25).

(I) Washing or ablution was frequently by immersion, indicated by either baptízō or níptō (G3538), to wash. In Mar 7:3, the phrase "wash their hands" is the translation of níptō (G3538), to wash part of the body such as the hands. In Mar 7:4 the verb wash in "except they wash" is baptízomai, to immerse. This indicates that the washing of the hands was done by immersing them in collected water. See Luk 11:38 which refers to washing one's hands before the meal, with the use of baptízomai, to have the hands baptized. In the Sept.: 2Ki 5:13-14 we have loúō (G3068), to bathe and baptízomai. See also Lev 11:25, Lev 11:28, Lev 11:40, where plúnō (G4150), to wash clothes by dipping, and loúō (G3068), to bathe are used. In Num 19:18-19, báphō, to dip, and plúnō, to wash by dipping are used.​

(II) To baptize or immerse in or wash with water in token of purification from sin and spiritual pollution (Mat 3:6, Mat 3:11; Mar 1:4-5, Mar 1:8-9; Luk 3:7, Luk 3:12, Luk 3:16, Luk 3:21; Luk 7:30; Joh 1:25, Joh 1:28; Joh 3:22-23, Joh 3:26; Joh 4:1-2; Joh 10:40; Act 2:38, Act 2:41; Act 8:12-13, Act 8:36, Act 8:38; Act 9:18; Act 10:47; Act 16:15, Act 16:33; Act 18:8; Act 22:16; 1Co 1:14, 1Co 1:16-17). In Mar 6:14, "John the baptizing one [ho baptízōn]" (a.t.). In Luke's writings with a dat. of the instrument or material employed, húdati, the dat. of húdōr (G5204), water, means with water (Luk 3:16; Act 1:5; Act 11:16). Elsewhere, however, the prep. en (G1722), in, is used, en húdati, in water (Mat 3:11; Mar 1:8; Joh 1:26, Joh 1:31, Joh 1:33 (cf. "in the Jordan" [a.t. {Mat 3:6}]). In Mar 1:9, eis (G1519), into, "into the Jordan" (a.t.).​

(III) The adjuncts mark the object and effect of baptism: especially eis (G1519), into, unto, with the acc., to baptize or to be baptized into anything means into the belief, profession or observance of anything (Mat 3:11, "unto repentance"; Act 2:38, "unto remission of sins" [a.t.]; Act 19:3, "Unto John's baptism," meaning the repentance unto which John baptized or the baptism related to John's preaching; Rom 6:3, "unto death" [a.t.] means that those who are baptized do so in relation to Jesus Christ's bearing their sins through His sacrifice and atonement on the cross; 1Co 12:13, "unto one body" [a.t.] that we may become parts of the body of Christ and parts of each other). With eis followed by the acc. of person, it means to baptize or be baptized into a profession of faith or into anyone, in sincere obedience to him. Also in 1Co 10:2, "unto Moses"; Gal 3:27, "unto Christ" (a.t.); also "into the name of someone"(a.t.) means to be identified with what the name of that one stands for (Mat 28:19; Act 8:16; Act 19:5; 1Co 1:13, 1Co 1:15). The same sense is understood when the prep. epí (G1909), upon, or en (G1722), in, followed by the dat., onómati (G3686), upon the name of, is used (Act 2:38, epí; Act 10:48, en). With hupér (G5228), on behalf of or for (1Co 15:29, those being "baptized for [or on account of] the dead," i.e., on a belief of the resurrection of the dead).​

(IV) Metaphorically and in direct allusion to the practice of water baptism (Mat 3:11; Luk 3:16), to baptize in or with the Holy Spirit and in or with fire, the baptism in the Holy Spirit being the spiritual counterpart of the water baptism. This Spirit baptism is referred to in 1Co 12:13 as an act performed by God in joining all true believers to the body of the Lord Jesus. To be baptized in fire (Mat 3:11 [TR]; Luk 3:16) stands in contrast to the baptism in the Spirit. Those who refuse to be joined into the body of Christ through the energy of the Holy Spirit will suffer the consequent punishment (Mat 3:12; Luk 3:17). In regard to the Spirit baptism, see also Mar 1:8; Joh 1:33; Act 1:5; Act 11:16, where the baptism in the Holy Spirit occurs as a specific phrase indicating what happened at Pentecost in joining the Jews who believed to the body of Christ (Acts 2). This is explained by Peter in Act 11:15-16 indicating that the Gentiles of Caesarea were also baptized in the Holy Spirit. A third group was the disciples of John in Act 19:6. This Spirit baptism was characterized by the phenomenon of speaking in languages never learned by those who were baptized in or with the Spirit (see Act 2:4 [language], Act 2:6, Act 2:8 [dialect], Act 2:11 [languages]; Act 10:46 [languages]; Act 19:6 [languages]). Thus the baptism in the Holy Spirit is Christ's attachment of those who genuinely believe as members of His body. In 1Co 12:13 the verb ebaptísthēmen refers to all believers of all times. It is something that God did in forming the spiritual body of Jesus Christ or the body of all believers, the Church. It fulfills the promise of Christ to send into the world in a special way the Holy Spirit or the Paráklētos (G3875), the Paraclete, Comforter, Intercessor, Consoler (Joh 16:7-14).​

(V) Metaphorically, the verb baptízō, to baptize, and the noun báptisma, baptism, are used in connection with calamities as in Mat 20:22-23; Mar 10:38-39, meaning to be overwhelmed with sufferings as the life of Jesus Christ was characterized. A similar expression is in Isa 21:4 in the Sept., "lawlessness baptizes me" (a.t.) or "overwhelms me" (a.t.). In 1Co 15:29, "What shall those being baptized for the dead do?" (a.t.); "Why therefore are they baptized on their behalf?" (a.t.) means if the dead do not rise, why expose ourselves to so much danger and suffering in the hope of a resurrection? This is an argument which Paul presents in order to prove the reality of the resurrection (cf. 1Co 15:30-31 where the verbs kinduneúō [G2793], to undergo danger, and apothnḗskō [G599], to die, used instead of baptízomai, to be baptized).​

(VI) In contrast to the verb baptízō, to dip, immerse, is the verb rhantízō (G4472), to sprinkle, which must not be taken as equivalent to baptízō. Rhantízō is used in Mar 7:4 in the WH instead of baptísōntai. Baptísōntai, however, of the TR and the UBS texts, is to be preferred in agreement with baptismoús (pl. [G909]) occurring in the same verse referring to the ceremonial washings of utensils. Baptismós, the ceremonial washing, should never be confused with báptisma which is a distinct practice related to the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptismós as mere cleansing of instruments was equated with rhantismós (G4473), sprinkling (found only in Heb 12:24; 1Pe 1:2), because this word was used to indicate the cleansing in symbolism done by the priest of the OT. Such ceremonial cleansing symbolized by sprinkling (Heb 9:19, Heb 9:21; Heb 10:22; Heb 12:24; 1Pe 1:2) had no permanent value nor did it actually cleanse the consciences of individual people. The verb rhantízō, to sprinkle, is found in Heb 9:13 where the contrast between the sprinkling is symbolic of the cleansing of the flesh. However, in Heb 9:14, the blood of Jesus Christ will katharieí (the same as katharísei), cleanse (from the verb katharízō [G2511], purify or cleanse) the conscience of man or his inner being. The high priest never baptized anyone in the way that Christian believers are baptized. He merely sprinkled the blood of animals. Therefore, the sprinkling has nothing to do with baptism but simply with ceremonial cleansing (Heb 9:21). Since, according to Heb 9:22, there can be no remission of sins without the "shedding of blood," Jesus Christ did indeed shed His blood (i.e., lay His life down as a sacrifice for sin). Thus it is not through some magical sprinkling of that blood upon our bodies or souls that we are saved, but when through faith we have our hearts "sprinkled" (the application of the benefits of Christ's death) from an evil conscience and our bodies washed (lelouménoi, the perf. pass. part. of loúō [G3068], to bathe) with clean water (Heb 10:22). The verb loúō, bathe, must be definitely differentiated from the verb níptō (G3538), to wash part of the body, usually feet, hands, or face, which can be used syn. with baptízō, as the verb of baptismós, ceremonial ablution (Luk 11:38), but never equivalent to the NT technical term of baptízō. The two great cleansing ceremonies of the OT, sprinkling and washing, typified the true work of salvation in Jesus Christ. The former perhaps signifying forgiveness (the cleansing of sin's guilt) and the latter probably betokening regeneration (the washing away of sin's defilement). Because believers have received the antitypical reality of these ceremonies in Christ, the writer can say that we have indeed had our consciences sprinkled and our bodies washed.​

Deriv.: báptisma (G908), baptism, the result of baptizing; baptismós (G909), the ceremonial washing of articles; baptistḗs (G910), baptist, used of John to qualify him as one baptizing.

Syn.: buthízō (G1036), to sink, but not necessarily to drown; katapontízō (G2670), to plunge down, submerge; embáptō (G1686), to dip.

Ant.: pléō (G4126), to sail upon the water.​
 

visionary

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the verb rhantízō (G4472), to sprinkle, which must not be taken as equivalent to baptízō. Rhantízō is used in Mar 7:4
 
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