Baptism by sprinkling

[MoreCoffee]

the verb rhantízō (G4472), to sprinkle, which must not be taken as equivalent to baptízō. Rhantízō is used in Mar 7:4

Mark 7:4 καὶ and ἀπ’ from ἀγορᾶς market ἐὰν if μὴ not ῥαντίσωνται they might sprinkle οὐκ not ἐσθίουσιν, they are eating, καὶ and ἄλλα other (things) πολλά many ἐστιν is ἃ which παρέλαβον they received κρατεῖν, to be holding fast, βαπτισμοὺς baptisms ποτηρίων of cups καὶ and ξεστῶν of pitchers καὶ and χαλκίων.— of copper vessels.— (Westcott & Hort text)

You ought to be more fulsome in your quotes (shown as underlined text below). The sentence you quoted says in full "In contrast to the verb baptízō, to dip, immerse, is the verb rhantízō (G4472), to sprinkle, which must not be taken as equivalent to baptízō. Rhantízō is used in Mar 7:4 in the WH instead of baptísōntai. Baptísōntai, however, of the TR and the UBS texts, is to be preferred in agreement with baptismoús (pl. [G909]) occurring in the same verse referring to the ceremonial washings of utensils. Baptismós, the ceremonial washing, should never be confused with báptisma which is a distinct practice related to the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptismós as mere cleansing of instruments was equated with rhantismós (G4473), sprinkling (found only in Heb 12:24; 1Pe 1:2), because this word was used to indicate the cleansing in symbolism done by the priest of the OT." but you appear to have cut it off as soon as it pointed out that the reading in the Westcott and Hort text is not to be preferred and that Baptísōntai is the preferred reading. I reproduced the W & H text above. Here is the Nestle-Aland 26th/27th edition Greek New Testament

καὶ ἀπ' ἀγορᾶς ἐὰν μὴ βαπτίσωνται οὐκ ἐσθίουσιν, καὶ ἄλλα πολλά ἐστιν ἃ παρέλαβον κρατεῖν, βαπτισμοὺς ποτηρίων καὶ ξεστῶν καὶ χαλκίων καὶ κλινῶν
(Mark 7:4)

 

[Lamb]

Even when shown the various definitions, we have to go back to what baptism accomplishes. Focus on Jesus on the cross! On God's many blessings in baptism!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Even when shown the various definitions, we have to go back to what baptism accomplishes. Focus on Jesus on the cross! On God's many blessings in baptism!

Personally I prefer immersion or pouring. Sprinkling seems so minimalist

 

[Alithis]

the verb rhantízō (G4472), to sprinkle, which must not be taken as equivalent to baptízō. Rhantízō is used in Mar 7:4

yup... just becaseu the similar words are used to wash hands or a table , are we told to repent and wash the table ? are we commanded to repent ans wash our hands ?

nope ..point made .

 

[Alithis]

Even when shown the various definitions, we have to go back to what baptism accomplishes. Focus on Jesus on the cross! On God's many blessings in baptism!

why?because whole hearted obedience is of no consequence ?
as just pointed out , we know he is not commanding us to wash a table or wash out hands .. but recognize identify with and enter into his death burial and resurrection..

as it is written . ... by baptism you were BURIED with him into his death ... that is very unambiguous very precise .

 

[Josiah]

as it is written . ... by baptism you were BURIED with him into his death ... that is very unambiguous very precise .

I agree. But it is not written, "Thou shalt wet the person with at least X gallons of water or the baptism is not valid." And it does not say, "Thou canst ONLY administer baptism by means of entirely immersing said person in a tank of water located behind the pulpit."



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[MoreCoffee]

yup... just becaseu the similar words are used to wash hands or a table , are we told to repent and wash the table ? are we commanded to repent ans wash our hands ?

nope ..point made .

We keep telling you that baptism is washing but it is not washing hands and tables it is washing away your sins like the holy scriptures say: But he said: "The God of our fathers has preordained you, so that you would come to know his will and would see the Just One, and would hear the voice from his mouth. For you shall be his witness to all men about those things which you have seen and heard. And now, why do you delay? Rise up, and be baptised, and wash away your sins, by invoking his name." (Acts 22:14-16)

 

[Alithis]

We keep telling you that baptism is washing but it is not washing hands and tables it is washing away your sins like the holy scriptures say: But he said: "The God of our fathers has preordained you, so that you would come to know his will and would see the Just One, and would hear the voice from his mouth. For you shall be his witness to all men about those things which you have seen and heard. And now, why do you delay? Rise up, and be baptised, and wash away your sins, by invoking his name." (Acts 22:14-16)

yup you keep saying that .. even though you know it means top dip .. yes they dipped the cloth ..to dye it .. they submerged it and it came up different ..
you know this .. but you refuse to turn for your man made established traditions ..you simply refuse to let go of your traditions in order to grasp hold of God .

 

[MoreCoffee]

yup you keep saying that .. even though you know it means to dip .. yes they dipped the cloth ..to dye it .. they submerged it and it came up different ..
you know this .. but you refuse to turn for your man made established traditions ..you simply refuse to let go of your traditions in order to grasp hold of God .

It means wash, the method is often by immersing. That was said many posts ago but you ignored it. That's why Acts 22:16 says to be baptised and wash away your sins. Wash them away. If your theology teaches you otherwise then it is not biblical.

 

[Lamb]

It means wash, the method is often by immersing. That was said many posts ago but you ignored it. That's why Acts 22:16 says to be baptised and wash away your sins. Wash them away. If your theology teaches you otherwise then it is not biblical.

Yes yes!!

 

[visionary]

What does the word “baptism” really mean? Does it, by definition, include sprinkling?

The English word “baptism” is transliterated from the Greek word baptisma, which signifies dipping or immersion (Thayer, 1958, p. 94; Arndt, Gingrich, and Danker, 1979, p. 132).

Forms of the word baptisma appear in various extrabiblical Greek writings, where it consistently carries with it the meaning of immersion. Aristotle, Polybius, Plutarch, Strabo, Diodorus, and Josephus all wrote of things that were “immersed” in water, and they all used forms of baptizo (Martin, 1991, pp. 208-210).

Leviticus 4:17 reads: “Then the priest shall dip [baptizo] his finger in the blood and sprinkle [rhantizo] it several times before the Lord, in front of the veil.” In this verse, the word translated “baptize” (or “dip”) is mentioned in the same sentence with the word rightly translated “sprinkle,” so it is clear that in the Old Testament, sprinkling is not baptism.

 

[visionary]

The practice of substituting sprinkling for baptism was unheard of until A.D. 253 (Thompson and Jackson, 1984, p. 11).

 

[visionary]

Thompson, Bert and Wayne Jackson (1984), “That ‘Loaded’ Questionnaire,” [On-line], URL: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/1181.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The practice of substituting sprinkling for baptism was unheard of until A.D. 253 (Thompson and Jackson, 1984, p. 11).

Pure speculation.

 

[visionary]

Pure speculation.

Thompson and Jackson are well respected scholars.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Thompson and Jackson are well respected scholars.

Respected by whom? And how would they know what was HEARD with the ears before 253 AD?

 

[Lamb]

The Didache (written in the first century) gave these instructions which show that immersion wasn't mandatory as some Christians try to force:

7 Concerning Baptism

7:1 Concerning baptism, you should baptize this way: After first explaining all things, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in flowing water.

7:2 But if you have no running water, baptize in other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, then in warm.

7:3 If you have very little, pour water three times on the head in the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

7:4 Before the baptism, both the baptizer and the candidate for baptism, plus any others who can, should fast. The candidate should fast for one or two days beforehand.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Didache (written in the first century) gave these instructions which show that immersion wasn't mandatory as some Christians try to force:

7 Concerning Baptism

7:1 Concerning baptism, you should baptize this way: After first explaining all things, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in flowing water.

7:2 But if you have no running water, baptize in other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, then in warm.

7:3 If you have very little, pour water three times on the head in the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

7:4 Before the baptism, both the baptizer and the candidate for baptism, plus any others who can, should fast. The candidate should fast for one or two days beforehand.

The first century is before 253 AD which is in the middle of the third century. I suspect that the 'scholars' named in another post are not well read in early Church writings. The Didache is one of the best known and most widely quoted sources for ancient Christian baptismal practises.

 

[Lamb]

And it used to be thought that it was written in the 2nd century but now it is being dated much earlier which shows how the early church actually practiced the faith in most areas of our beliefs!

 

[Alithis]

It means wash, the method is often by immersing. That was said many posts ago but you ignored it. That's why Acts 22:16 says to be baptised and wash away your sins. Wash them away. If your theology teaches you otherwise then it is not biblical.

And elsewhere you say "you dont like it when people only take one scripture and ignore all others" .... so again , if you take what the entire scriptures state on the topic and not "only " the single piece to force fit a preferred tradition into the puzzle .. we see that it is all about death and resurrection all about burial and rising .
whe the whole picture is applies we know darn well it is by submersion .