Baptism by sprinkling

psalms 91

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true and you also cannot ignore that people are not couchs nor were they baptised on a couch
 

MoreCoffee

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true and you also cannot ignore that people are not couchs nor were they baptised on a couch

I need not ignore any passages of the holy scriptures to know that washing away one's sins does not require submersion in water.
 

TurtleHare

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That's a very informational link and I'll add it to my list since it proves very clearly that baptism can mean immersion but doesn't only mean immersion and that's the problem that a lot of people have in trying to understand. Getting stuck on one idea of a word, especially when the original language has a lot of words with multiple meanings is foolish to try to insist it only means one thing just to fit their own doctrine.

The didache has great instruction on how baptisms were to be done in the early church and even mosaics and tiles show that baptisms were done by pouring water over a person and not immersing them into the waters.




.[/QUOTE]
 

visionary

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Where is sprinkling commanded in OT as signifying the new life in Christ? I know that there is a temple sprinkling for lepers. But that does not have much to do with this discussion.
 
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Alithis

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Where is sprinkling commanded in OT as signifying the new life in Christ? I know that there is a temple sprinkling for lepers. But that does not have much to do with this discussion.

its another of those non contextual ambiguous things i warn about .. never direct unambiguous scripture..

we were "buried with him into his death "..is very precise in its description .

as for some one having pictures of some "tiles depicting it ." just becaseu you have a drawing on ceramics showing it done wrong ..doesnt make it the truthful way to do it.. Its More ambiguous deviation from direct scripture .. the dishonest nature of it Galls me .
 

TurtleHare

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Ezekiel 36:24-27New International Version (NIV)

24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
 

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Ezekiel 36:24-27New International Version (NIV)

24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

I never quite get why submersionists are so opposed to sprinkling. In my church we pour water rather than sprinkle it if we do not immerse but we also immerse when that is possible and suitable. Submersionists seem almost to be fixated upon the amount of water one is exposed to in baptism as if one cannot have their sins washed away with less than submersion.
 

Lamb

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we were "buried with him into his death "..is very precise in its description .

Jesus didn't die while drowning so to try to equate baptism with drowning for being buried with him in death is not what is meant by the verse.

If we look at Old Testament baptismal typology references, we will note that the amount of water did not matter. The Red Sea, how wet did they get? Moses in his basket that his mother placed him in is baptismal and again, how much water was on the baby? The Leper who was cured did dunk himself 7 times but the water isn't what healed him but God's promise.
 

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MoreCoffee

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If we were rabbinic Jews maybe a mikvah would matter but we are not we are Christians.
 

visionary

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If we were rabbinic Jews maybe a mikvah would matter but we are not we are Christians.
If John the Baptist didn't care, then his mikvah and subsequently Yeshua's wouldn't matter either.
 

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If John the Baptist didn't care, then his mikvah and subsequently Yeshua's wouldn't matter either.

Saint John the Baptist's baptism was not Christian baptism and the Lord Jesus Christ was not baptised into union with himself since he was always in full communion with the Blessed Trinity being himself God. His baptism was a sign and testimony to God's great work of redemption in the person of Jesus Christ. Christian baptism is communion with the Lord Jesus Christ and reception of the Holy Spirit it washes away sins and brings new life, the resurrection life of the Lord. These things have nothing to do with the beggarly mikvahs of Rabbinic Judaism.
 

psalms 91

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If we were rabbinic Jews maybe a mikvah would matter but we are not we are Christians.

Do you forget your roots and where we came from? Do you forget that Jesus was a Jew? God in the flesh, does that not say something to you about all the things you want to ignore
 

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Do you forget your roots and where we came from? Do you forget that Jesus was a Jew? God in the flesh, does that not say something to you about all the things you want to ignore

I know my family roots and none to my knowledge are in rabbinic Judaism. Not that it would matter if there were some such roots since I am a Christian and not a rabbinic Jew so mikvahs have no religious significance for me.
 

psalms 91

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They should a lot of the things within your church are taken straight from the Jewish. Mikcvahs point to something concerning baptism.
 

visionary

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I know my family roots and none to my knowledge are in rabbinic Judaism. Not that it would matter if there were some such roots since I am a Christian and not a rabbinic Jew so mikvahs have no religious significance for me.

That explains a lot...
 

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They should a lot of the things within your church are taken straight from the Jewish. Mikcvahs point to something concerning baptism.

I agree that some things in the liturgies appear to have their roots[SUP]*[/SUP] in the old covenant ceremonies and rites and some appear to have their roots[SUP]*[/SUP] in the synagogue practises of the first century of the Christian era. Christian baptism has its roots in the baptism of saint John the Baptist and John's baptism may (or may not) have its roots in this or that washing ceremony of first century Judaism but the baptism of saint John the Baptist differed from the washings of the Pharisees in their synagogues and it differed from the practises of the Sadducees in the temple because the holy scriptures tell us how upsetting saint John the Baptist's baptism practise was to them and how disruptive of their religious authority it was.

Saint John the Baptist's baptism may or may not have included submersion and it may or may not have included pouring and it is possible that it may or may not have included sprinkling because the holy scriptures do not describe in detail what he did when he baptised and since his baptism was not Christian baptism we must discover what Christian baptism is by consulting the passages of holy scripture that I referred to in a previous post; specifically these passages: Mat 28:19; Mar 16:16; Joh 3:5; Joh 3:22; Joh 4:1-2; Act 1:5; Act 1:22; Act 2:38; Act 2:41; Act 8:12-13; Act 8:16; Act 8:36-38; Act 9:18; Act 10:46-48; Act 16:14-15; Act 16:33; Act 18:8; Act 18:25; Act 19:4-5; Act 22:16; Rom 6:3-4; 1Co 1:13-17; 1Co 10:1-2; 1Co 12:13; 1Co 15:29; Gal 3:27; Eph 4:5; Eph 5:26; Col 2:12; Heb 6:2; 1Pe 3:18; 1Pe 3:21. In them there is no command to submerge nor to pour nor to sprinkle so when a claim is made that because Jews submerge in this or that religious rite of rabbinic Judaism today or did so in some century after the first century of the Christian era it is quite irrelevant to what Christians ought to do in Christian baptism.

* The actual source for the liturgies of the Christian Church are found in the heavenly pattern from which the tabernacle and temple ceremonies were drawn as shadows and images. The liturgies of Christianity are the earthly and visible forms of the heavenly realities and this is explained in the book of Hebrews and in The Apocalypse of saint John the theologian.
 
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Lamb

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A Mikvah is not baptism otherwise instead of giving us information about how Noah and saving his family is similar to baptism, scripture would say Mikvah...but it doesn't. So the comparisons stop at where they both use water. The amount in baptism is not specified and so should not be legalized by man concerning quantity.
 
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