Why was Mary necessary?

[Josiah]

Indeed she is. Mary is the mother of God the Son and since God the Son is God blessed Mary is the mother of God. Yet you find it so hard to say. You'd rather deny it than admit the evident truth of it so you add the peculiar heretical view of the Holy Trinity and the incarnation of the Word that the rest of your post contains.

Actually, Full O Beans BOTH admitted the two affirmations as true AND declared them to be wrong and blasphemy (and thus declared his/her own positions to be wrong and blasmphemy). It cannot be BOTH true that Mary bore Jesus who is God AND that it's wrong and blasphemy that Mary bore Jesus who is God. I suspect all (above all Full of Beans) knows this.


I've participated in DOZENS of threads at DOZENS of websites on this title over the past 15 years or so. Never before have I found folks insisting that the affirmations of this title are BOTH true and blasphemy, so obviously shooting themselves in the foot. In fact, USUALLY the issue is not whether these things are true or false, but rather whether the title can be confusing - but here, this time, Full O Beans is insisting these affirmations are BOTH true (affirmed, verbatim, by Full O Beans his/herself) AND blasphemy, wrong, horrible, condemnable, of the devil. The very same two points. THAT'S something I've never encountered before.


Yeah, there are still a few very unorthodox folks denying Scripture, the Council of Nicea, the Council of Chaladon, and holding to the heresy of Arianism - denying the divinity of Jesus. And that's popped up in this thread. But ultimately, I suspect Full o Beans abandoned that and returned to orthodox Christianity affirming His divinity, even flating saying Jesus IS God. Of course, if one denies that very fundamental belief, they will reject this title since that affirming IS one of the two of the title. I've not yet met anyone holding to the position that someone other than Mary bore Jesus, but of course that would be the other affirmation in the title.


I think sometimes, folks reject the two points they insist are TRUE because it's Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican and Lutherans affirming these two things (they insist are both true).... because it comes from the mouths/pens of Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Anglicans and Lutherans, it MUST be rebuked (even if they insist what they are saying is true). We may have a case of that here???

But I think sometimes what happens is that they just don't READ the title. In stead of the title, in lieu of what it says, in place of what it affirms, they substitute OTHER things. Created/invented strawmen of their own wild imaginations. Then have fun rebuking their own created (silly) strawmen such as "Mary - Creator of the Creator" or "Mary - Originator of the Trinity" or other equally weird (and obviously wrong) substitutions. Sure, it's easy to condemn a silly thing like, "Mary - Mother of the Trinity" but then no one on the planet Earth, no one alive have EVER used that title; it's not the title we're discussing, it's a silly strawman of their OWN creation they have chosen to subsitute for the title we're discussing. It all goes away the minute they actually READ THE WORDS, realize WHAT is being affirmed: Mary bore Jesus (Luke 2:1-7, etc. etc.) and Jesus may rightly be called GOD (John 20:28, Philippians 2:6, etc., etc.). You know, the two things Full O Beans BOTH insisted are true AND insists are blasphemy, wrong, satanic.


A most unusual thread.


Pax


- Josiah




.

 

[Full O Beans]

LOL! Mary gave birth to the physical flesh Jesus, who is also part of the Godhead, but she did not give birth to God, who is Father, Son and Spirit. The man-made title of "Mother of God" is a misleading one, and its purpose is to bring laud to a human being, which dishonours God---and should not be used, and furthermore, is not even hinted at in scripture.

Best stick with scripture. Religion messes people up.

 

[Alithis]

God in the scriptures does not Give mary the title mother of god .. because she is not the mother of God ..she is the mother of the flesh man .

some refuse to see this distinction . the word of God became flesh .. the word of god did not become God .mary is not the mother of god she is the mother of the flesh man .

for those who so struggle with this simple distinction
consider more scripture from paul to Timothy -"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; .........." note he does not say "the God Christ Jesus .. but the MAN . paul has no problem making the distinction ,knowing that the word of god gave up his divine right and became .. A MAN .

--------------
for what purpose is mary given that title since God did not give it nor ever will . ?
what is to be gained ?
why the persistence in it ?
should we not be more concerned with glorifying the LOrd jesus ?

The apostles never saw fit to mention it in ANY of the thier epistles to the congregations throughout the evangelized world ..
no only a group with its own agenda, an agenda opposed to the truth of the lord JEsus saw fit to introduce a title that GOD NEVER gave .

and why ? because when we read of mary and all that describes her in the scripture (which is not a lot ) and then we read of the mary of the RCC -we see plainly .. we are not speaking of the same person .


the mary of the bible is NOT called the mother of GOD
the mary of the bible is NOT the queen of heaven
the mary of the bible is NOT born devine having no sin
the mary of the bible is NOT a perpetual virgin
the mary of the bible is NOT a co-mediator ...

so this mary they speak of ,is a different person then the mary in the Holy scripture .. she is a moon goddess of pagan times dating back to nimrods mother .. the mother of the "sun" god -do the research .
(given a variance of names over the ages including queen of heaven) -that is who the rcc is describing with all those titles.
that is why NONE of those titles are in the scriptures . because (all)scripture is given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost .. and none of those titles originate in God .

 

[Josiah]

Holy scripture says that Jesus is God and holy scripture says that Mary is the mother of Jesus hence Mary is the mother of God. You can complain all you like but the facts are the facts and Mary is the mother of Jesus who is God.

Full O Beans has already affirmed BOTH of those positions as true: Mary bore Jesus and "Jesus is still God." Both are true, this poster has posted. It's just that both are false, wrong, blasphemy and satanic.

 

[Full O Beans]

Full O Beans has already affirmed BOTH of those positions as true: Mary bore Jesus and "Jesus is still God." Both are true, this poster has posted. It's just that both are false, wrong, blasphemy and satanic.

It's the false conclusion that you have accepted that is not from God, but from errant, carnal minds. We must always be on guard against deceitful doctrines of men. If you aren't wearing your spiritual armour, you will be deceived, and this nonsense about the elevation of Mary and in general, Marian worship, is one huge, glaring deception.

 

[George]

Lol I keep seeing the same wall of text being posted over and over, and it doesn't help anyone's case lol.

 

[Full O Beans]

Lol I keep seeing the same wall of text being posted over and over, and it doesn't help anyone's case lol.

Aww, George...the truth is powerful and good, but it is to be taken on board if it is going to do its intended work.

 

[George]

Aww, George...the truth is powerful and good, but it is to be taken on board if it is going to do its intended work.

The funny thing is though that people are taking things out of context and making them a bigger issue then they are over a small title.

 

[Josiah]

The funny thing is though that people are taking things out of context and making them a bigger issue then they are over a small title.

I SUSPECT the issue is some are protesting titles that don't exist. To put it another day, they are ignoring the title that's used for a strawman of their own remarkable creation, one that none on the planet, in all of human history, have ever affirmed such as "Mary - Creator of the Creator" or "Mary - Originator of the Trinity." Sure, THOSE titles that don't exist, that none believe, that none have ever affirmed are false (and none have ever defended those) but those are their own strawman - not what we're discussing.

But what I think is remarkable is that some have embraced BOTH of the affirmations of this title - Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may be called God - yet also proclaiming such be wrong, false, satanic.

See post 302.

 

[Full O Beans]

The funny thing is though that people are taking things out of context and making them a bigger issue then they are over a small title.

It isn't funny, nor is it a small title to those who adhere to it. It's not a trifling matter to God when people are deceived.

 

[George]

It isn't funny, nor is it a small title to those who adhere to it. It's not a trifling matter to God when people are deceived.

It is because Scripture has been given and it affirms this particular title. You don't have to use the title if you're not fine with it, but to deny that Scripture says it isn't right.

 

[Full O Beans]

It is because Scripture has been given and it affirms this particular title. You don't have to use the title if you're not fine with it, but to deny that Scripture says it isn't right.

Scripture doesn't teach that Mary is the lofty, pretentious and presumptuous "Mother of God", nor ever use the title. She has only one designation---the mother of Jesus, and that is used several times. We need to use that.

 

[George]

Jesus who is also Divine and God.

 

[Josiah]

Jesus who is also Divine and God.

... as Full O Beans has already stated. Jesus is God and Mary bore him - true yet blasphemy.



.

 

[Lamb]

Scripture doesn't teach that Mary is the lofty, pretentious and presumptuous "Mother of God", nor ever use the title. she has only one designation---the mother of Jesus, and that is used several times. We need to use that.

See, there is the problem...you added baggage. You said "lofty, pretentious and presumptuous" which is why you argue against something that has nothing to do with those adjectives. "Mother of God" does not mean loft. Does not mean pretentious. Does not mean presumptuous. It means that Jesus is God and Mary is His Mother.

 

[Alithis]

so full of beans has added..and you telm her off.
yet we are speaking of a title your all adding. so youve no high ground to judge on that count.

 

[TurtleHare]

You make no sense.

You and this [staff edit] keep going round and round the same exact argument but the fact o the matter is that you call everyone liars even Jesus who IS GOD.

 

[Alithis]

God in the scriptures does*not*Give mary the title mother of god .. because she is not the mother of God ..she is the mother of the flesh man .

some refuse to see this distinction . the word of God became flesh .. the word of god did not become God .mary is not the mother of god she is the mother of the flesh man .

for those who so struggle with this simple distinction*
consider more scripture from paul to Timothy -"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,**Christ Jesus; .........." note he does not say "the God Christ Jesus .. but the MAN . paul has no problem making the distinction ,knowing that the word of god gave up his divine right and became .. A MAN .*

--------------
for what purpose is mary given that title since God did not give it nor ever will . ?
what is to be gained ?
why the persistence in it ?*
should we not be more concerned with glorifying the LOrd jesus ?

The apostles never saw fit to mention it in ANY of the thier epistles to the congregations throughout the evangelized world ..
no only a group with its own agenda, an agenda opposed to the truth of the lord JEsus saw fit to introduce a title that GOD NEVER gave .*

and why ? because when we read of mary and all that describes her in the scripture (which is not a lot ) and then we read of the mary of the*

RCC

*-we see plainly .. we are not speaking of the same person .


the mary of the bible is NOT called the mother of GOD
the mary of the bible is NOT the queen of heaven*
the mary of the bible is NOT born devine having no sin
the mary of the bible is NOT a perpetual virgin
the mary of the bible is NOT a co-mediator ...

so this mary they speak of ,is a different person then the mary in the Holy scripture .. she is a moon goddess of pagan times dating back to nimrods mother .. the mother of the "sun" god -do the research .
(given a variance of names over the ages including queen of heaven) -that is who the rcc is describing with all those titles.*
that is why NONE of those titles are in the scriptures . because (all)scripture is given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost .. and none of those titles originate in God .

QUOTE=Josiah;30778]Actually, Full O Beans BOTH admitted the two affirmations as true AND declared them to be wrong and blasphemy (and thus declared his/her own positions to be wrong and blasmphemy). It cannot be BOTH true that Mary bore Jesus who is God AND that it's wrong and blasphemy that Mary bore Jesus who is God. I suspect all (above all Full of Beans) knows this.


I've participated in DOZENS of threads at DOZENS of websites on this title over the past 15 years or so. Never before have I found folks insisting that the affirmations of this title are BOTH true and blasphemy, so obviously shooting themselves in the foot. In fact, USUALLY the issue is not whether these things are true or false, but rather whether the title can be confusing - but here, this time, Full O Beans is insisting these affirmations are BOTH true (affirmed, verbatim, by Full O Beans his/herself) AND blasphemy, wrong, horrible, condemnable, of the devil. The very same two points. THAT'S something I've never encountered before.


Yeah, there are still a few very unorthodox folks denying Scripture, the Council of Nicea, the Council of Chaladon, and holding to the heresy of Arianism - denying the divinity of Jesus. And that's popped up in this thread. But ultimately, I suspect Full o Beans abandoned that and returned to orthodox Christianity affirming His divinity, even flating saying Jesus IS God. Of course, if one denies that very fundamental belief, they will reject this title since that affirming IS one of the two of the title. I've not yet met anyone holding to the position that someone other than Mary bore Jesus, but of course that would be the other affirmation in the title.


I think sometimes, folks reject the two points they insist are TRUE because it's Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican and Lutherans affirming these two things (they insist are both true).... because it comes from the mouths/pens of Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Anglicans and Lutherans, it MUST be rebuked (even if they insist what they are saying is true). We may have a case of that here???

But I think sometimes what happens is that they just don't READ the title. In stead of the title, in lieu of what it says, in place of what it affirms, they substitute OTHER things. Created/invented strawmen of their own wild imaginations. Then have fun rebuking their own created (silly) strawmen such as "Mary - Creator of the Creator" or "Mary - Originator of the Trinity" or other equally weird (and obviously wrong) substitutions. Sure, it's easy to condemn a silly thing like, "Mary - Mother of the Trinity" but then no one on the planet Earth, no one alive have EVER used that title; it's not the title we're discussing, it's a silly strawman of their OWN creation they have chosen to subsitute for the title we're discussing. It all goes away the minute they actually READ THE WORDS, realize WHAT is being affirmed: Mary bore Jesus (Luke 2:1-7, etc. etc.) and Jesus may rightly be called GOD (John 20:28, Philippians 2:6, etc., etc.). You know, the two things Full O Beans BOTH insisted are true AND insists are blasphemy, wrong, satanic.


A most unusual thread.


Pax


- Josiah




.[/QUOTE]

admitting that everything thr scripture states is true..does not ewuate to calling a part of it blasphemy.this is not the first timr youve mafe deviously false acvusations.

state you verse where God declared mary to be his mother.
if you csnt then accept..he does not.

 

[Alithis]

And i will keep repeating it and will not cease to agree with the word of God.and will not accept msns word imposed over the word of God .Get used to it.

God in the scriptures does*not*Give mary the title mother of god .. because she is not the mother of God ..she is the mother of the flesh man .

some refuse to see this distinction . the word of God became flesh .. the word of god did not become God .mary is not the mother of god she is the mother of the flesh man .

for those who so struggle with this simple distinction*
consider more scripture from paul to Timothy -"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,*the man*Christ Jesus; .........." note he does not say "the God Christ Jesus .. but the MAN . paul has no problem making the distinction ,knowing that the word of god gave up his divine right and became .. A MAN .*

--------------
for what purpose is mary given that title since God did not give it nor ever will . ?
what is to be gained ?
why the persistence in it ?*
should we not be more concerned with glorifying the LOrd jesus ?

The apostles never saw fit to mention it in ANY of the thier epistles to the congregations throughout the evangelized world ..
no only a group with its own agenda, an agenda opposed to the truth of the lord JEsus saw fit to introduce a title that GOD NEVER gave .*

and why ? because when we read of mary and all that describes her in the scripture (which is not a lot ) and then we read of the mary of the*

RCC

*-we see plainly .. we are not speaking of the same person .


the mary of the bible is NOT called the mother of GOD
the mary of the bible is NOT the queen of heaven*
the mary of the bible is NOT born devine having no sin
the mary of the bible is NOT a perpetual virgin
the mary of the bible is NOT a co-mediator ...

so this mary they speak of ,is a different person then the mary in the Holy scripture .. she is a moon goddess of pagan times dating back to nimrods mother .. the mother of the "sun" god -do the research .
(given a variance of names over the ages including queen of heaven) -that is who the rcc is describing with all those titles.*
that is why NONE of those titles are in the scriptures . because (all)scripture is given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost .. and none of those titles originate in God .

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Mary of the bible (blessed Mary) is the mother of God. Holy scripture says so when it says that Jesus is God (John 1:1, 14, 18) and that Mary is his mother (Acts 1:14).