Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[brightfame52]

If He died for us, we are Justified !

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Understand something, if Christ hath died for us, whether we have belived or not, we are Justified before God from all sin and counted Righteous, by the simple fact that He died; Our Faith is not necessary, our repentance is not required, no type of obedience is needed, Only His was requisite. So if we are one of the ones He died for, automatically, we are Justified before God without any other influence.

Also along with that , God will never lay anything to our charge, which is another way of saying that He will not unto us impute sin, we would be as the Blessed Man her Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 13

 

[brightfame52]

He was raised again for/because of Our Justification !

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

25 Jesus was ·given to die [handed/delivered over; 8:32] ·for [because of] our ·sins [violations; transgressions], and he was raised from the dead ·to make us right with God [for our justification; or to confirm our justification].EXB

Listen, what man made religion is so ignorant of is this: That Jesus Christ's Resurrection from the dead, was not because of or for His Own Justification of Himself as a private individual, but because of the Justification of all those for whom their offences He was delivered for ! In His Resurrection they have total Justification from all things pertaining to God, that is not in themselves, for in that they are enemies and ungodly and unbelievers, so the Justification of them is based solely upon His Work, by it they receive Justification of Life Rom 5:18.

The Resurrection of Christ is evidence that all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of, that they have been credited with Justification of Life, So He was raised because of their total Justification, No Charge can be Laid against them, even while they are unbelievers Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

33 Who can ·accuse [bring an accusation/charge against] the people God has chosen? No one, because God is the One who ·makes them right [declares them righteous; justifies them]. EXB

 

[Albion]

He was raised again for/because of Our Justification !

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

25 Jesus was ·given to die [handed/delivered over; 8:32] ·for [because of] our ·sins [violations; transgressions], and he was raised from the dead ·to make us right with God [for our justification; or to confirm our justification]

It's fairly easy to see how your theory departs from the Bible's testimony when you have to change the meaning -- or make it seem like two different meanings are saying the same thing -- like you do in all the above instances.

 

[brightfame52]

It's fairly easy to see how your theory departs from the Bible's testimony when you have to change the meaning -- or make it seem like two different meanings are saying the same thing -- like you do in all the above instances.

Too bad you cant believe the Truth

 

[Albion]

Too bad you cant believe the Truth

LOL Which one do you want me to consider to be "the truth"-- Christ was raised for our justification OR Christ was raised because of our justification?

 

[brightfame52]

Justified freely by His Grace !

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Many calling themselves believers or christians do make a claim to believe this Truth of " Justification freely by the Grace of God" , but its my privilege to tell ya that they really dont believe it at all ! No they only pretend to in words, but if we examine their Testimony 1 Jn 4:1;Matt 7:20 it is finally discovered that their supposed Justification by Grace freely, in reality is Justification because of their act of faith or belief, but that doesn't qualify to being freely Justified by His Grace !

The word freely is very important here in this solemn declaration of truth, its the word dorean and means :

as a free gift, without payment, freely,something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

for naught

Now Listen, it cannot be truly freely , without cause, for naught if indeed my act of believing or faith is the real cause, and that is why those who are not Justified remain so, because they did not meet the qualification of exercising faith or belief; So hence, its either freely without cause or its not, cannot straddle the fence here !

Yet Paul explains why its without cause and by Grace, why its a Gift reckoned upon the Justified ones based solely the Redemption that is by Christ's Blood [being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9]; They were Justified freely by His Grace as a Gift, because Christ's Redemptive Death freed them from the penalty of their sins ! Redemption does that. Lets look at Heb 9:12 to prove this vital point :

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption here, the greek word lutrósis :

(in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release. redemption from the penalty of sin:

Yes Redemption from the penalty of sin, equates to Justification from all sin, and that freely solely by the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Blood Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This verse says the very exact thing as does Rom 3:24 only here forgiveness of sins equals Justification, Justification from the penalty of our sins and forgiveness of them are the same, and is according to the Riches of God's Grace !

All this is True because He, the Lord Jesus Christ, by His Blood shedding Death for them, satisfied all of God's vengeful Law and Justice He rightly had against all their sins against Him, So it was no cause or condition in them that influenced God to Justify them freely by His Grace, the cause was solely in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ in their stead.

So lastly again, if we say that we believe in being Justified freely by His Grace, and yet at the same time make our act of faith to be the condition and cause why God Justified us, them we do lie and believe not the Truth, we don't believe the Truth of being Justified freely by His Grace as presented in Rom 3:24 or Titus 3:7 for that matter where it reads Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 13

 

[brightfame52]

Justified by His Blood !

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This Truth is denied continually by all those who insist that mans Faith is the condition he must perform in order to be Justified before God and by God, which totally disregards the Precious Truth of having been Justified before God solely by the Blood of Christ, or the Death of Christ, as its clearly stated here.

In fact Rom 5:9 here is the same exact Truth Paul taught earlier in Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption [by blood] that is in Christ Jesus !

Because of the Redemption that is in His Blood, which added is by Grace and that freely without no conditions, no cause in us !

In fact its a True Fact even while the redeemed ones are still being enemies Rom 5:10,19 !

Faith in Christ is not required to be Justified before God by the Blood of Christ ! The Only Faith that was required for complete that Transaction before God, was Christ's Faith or Faithfulness, His Obedience unto the Death !14

 

[brightfame52]

What is Justification of Life ?

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This scripture has always been handled deceitfully by the adversaries of the Gospel, they force it to say and mean all men without exception have a chance at being Justified, and that Christ died for all men without exception, yet that is not true; This scripture applies to the Church, the Body of Christ, whom is the Head and Saviour of the Body Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Now the word Head here has the same connotations of being its Prince as in Prince and Saviour Acts 5:31. The word head is kephalē and means:


I.the head, both of men and often of animals. Since the loss of the head destroys life, this word is used in the phrases relating to capital and extreme punishment.


II.metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent

A.of persons, master lord: of a husband in relation to his wife


B.of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church


C.of things: the corner stone

That word Chief means:



c.1300, "head, leader, captain; the principal or most important part of anything;"

And the word Prince as in Acts 5:31 is the greek word archēgos and means:


I.the chief leader, prince

A.of Christ



II.one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer


III.the author

So what we have in Eph 5:23 is just a restatement of Acts 5:31 ! Peter calls Him a Prince and a Saviour, Paul calls Him the Head and Saviour, so the Body is the same, Israel in Acts 5:31 and the Church in Eph 5:23 !

Now as the Head of the Body and looking back at Rom 5:18, through His One Righteous Act, it brought to the Body, the Church Justification of Life, or its Life out of Justification.

Those whom receive Justification by Christ's death, as an evidence and confirmation of the same, they must also receive Life, that is Spiritual Life, out of and away from spiritual death, because their wages of sin death has been totally satisfied in their behalf by their Head and Saviour, and so Life out of death is their just and appropriate due, because sin and its wages can no longer be charged against them.

Also this giving of them Spiritual Life is evidence of their Union with their Head when He also rose from the dead out of their condemnation and death; For it is written Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

And for this cause Life must follow Justification Rom 5:18, so Paul terms it Justification of Life, they're joined together by God Himself.

Now we know from the sacred scriptures all men without exception have or will have Life, Jesus said of some Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

They shall not see Life, thats a permanent indictment, so that eliminates them from being any Christ died for, and by that they received Justification of Life Rom 5:18 !

14

 

[Albion]

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

They shall not see Life, thats a permanent indictment, so that eliminates them from being any Christ died for, and by that they received Justification of Life Rom 5:18 !

On the contrary, it's saying that without Faith, there is no life. Your theory gives no place to Faith, but the Bible teaches the opposite.

 

[brightfame52]

On the contrary, it's saying that without Faith, there is no life. Your theory gives no place to Faith, but the Bible teaches the opposite.

You only are given Faith if Christ died for you.

 

[Albion]

You only are given Faith if Christ died for you.

Sure, but your contention is that it doesn't have any role in the process of salvation even if it is given.

 

[Josiah]

You only are given Faith if Christ died for you.

Christ died for everyone. Not everyone is given faith. But those who are given faith thus have faith that apprehends/trusts/applies/relies upon that death of Christ for them.



.

 

[brightfame52]

Sure, but your contention is that it doesn't have any role in the process of salvation even if it is given.

See post 758 please

Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

1 Cor 15:17 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. If the resurrection of Christ didn't mean that those He died for are Justified from all their sins, then there would not have been any truth of Justification for Faith to receive and embrace, and faith...

christianityhaven.com

 

[brightfame52]

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly !

Rom 3:24-26

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly [while actually being ungodly] because of the redemption provided for them in Christ Jesus their Surety Head.

Those Christ died for, His death alone for them put away sin and the consequences thereof, all of its penalties, death included, by making propitiation/satisfaction by His Blood, which is again the propitiation in Vs 25

By this [His Blood] God's Wrath has been appeased, not by their Faith in His Blood, but by His Blood alone God was appeased on their behalf ! And because of this, Christ's blood has so washed away the sins of theirs and its effects, its now so , as if they never sinned, and they are completely Righteous before Him, all of which is solely based on His Precious Blood, and So God Justifies them, even while and when they themselves are personally born into this world in a ungodly state, when they are children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, and while they are with enmity in their minds and heart against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Now again, while those Christ died for are in this state of ungodliness, because of Christ's Blood, they are Justified, made Righteous before God, Hence, God Justifieth the Ungodly !

 

[Albion]

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

You apparently think of Faith as something that applies only to the Elect few and is essentially a symbol of what had already been accomplished. But if it's claimed that Faith is meaningless or impossible for other people, then the New Testament Epistles has to be seen as disagreeing with that. They do not pick and choose among humans when addressing readers. Not then and not now.

Instead, the Bible teaches that the Apostles were sent forth by Christ himself with instructions to make disciples of all nations and to baptize all who then come to Christ. This is what's often called the "Great Commission."

According to your theory, doing that would at least be contrary to God's eternal purposes and, at best, it would be nothing other than useless 'busy work.'

 

[brightfame52]

You apparently think of Faith as something that applies only to the Elect few and is essentially a symbol of what had already been accomplished. But if it's claimed that Faith is meaningless or impossible for other people, then the New Testament Epistles has to be seen as disagreeing with that. They do not pick and choose among humans when addressing readers. Not then and not now.

Instead, the Bible teaches that the Apostles were sent forth by Christ himself with instructions to make disciples of all nations and to baptize all who then come to Christ. This is what's often called the "Great Commission."

According to your theory, doing that would at least be contrary to God's eternal purposes and, at best, it would be nothing other than useless 'busy work.'

Post 758 did you read it ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

How did this thread manage to get to 1117 posts????????????

The OP isn't too complicated.

 

[brightfame52]

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly !2

Now its only True that God is Justifying the Ungodly, only if indeed they have been Justified before Him while being Ungodly !

The Death/Blood of Christ is the basis of God Justifying them, not because of their believing, being obedient, but while being unbelieving and disobedient, and that's why it is also stated that they have been reconciled to God while being enemies Rom 5:10, which is just another way of stating that God Justified the Ungodly, while being ungodly, and until this is understood and embraced, we have no ideal what Justification by Grace is all about, nor do we properly understand Rom 4:5 and the blessed Truth that God justifies the Ungodly; And all who have been Justified by God while ungodly, based upon the redemption in Christ Jesus, all of them shall be given the Spirit of Faith to see it, realize it, and believe in Jesus for it, Hence Paul goes on to say that God is Just and the Justifier of them which are now believing in Jesus, that's because by new birth they have been given faith to believe the fact that they had been Justified, reconciled to God by Christ's blood while being enemies and ungodly ! 14

 

[brightfame52]

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly !3

God Justifieth the Ungodly ! Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now when are those being Justified as the Ungodly ? Is it before they believe or have Faith in Christ ? The answer is Yes, for while they are being ungodly sinners, Christ has died for them Rom 5:6-8

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

His death Justified them as Ungodly , when Ungodly !

Remember Paul says after saying it is God that Justifieth in Rom 8:33, in Vs 34 He said it was because Christ died Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

When Christ died, it Justified the Ungodly He died for !

Not only that, Belief of the Truth is an act of godliness Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

So if He Justified them when they believed, He Justified them while they were acting Godly, which overthrows the very foundation of the Truth of Rom 4:5 that He Justifies the Ungodly !

Regarding Rom 5:6-8 its plain from the passage that Christ died for them while being ungodly, and again that's why they were Justified, because Christ died for them, and by that fact alone, they shall be made Righteous, or made Just, which is the same as Justified, So those Christ died for are made righteous / Justified while they are ungodly sinners in unbelief, to the credit of Christ's Death and God's Grace !

 

[brightfame52]

Believers were Justified/Made Righteous while Ungodly !

Believers were Justified/Made Righteous while Ungodly ! This Truth the unbelieving religious world cannot receive, That all for whom Christ died, that fact alone, apart from any obedience of their own, and even while they were operating by a spirit of disobedience as Per Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Yes even while they were in the midst of walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, even then, solely by the death of Christ, were they made Righteous, and Justified before God, in their ungodly manner of lifestyle !

Thats why Paul says that God was Justifying the Ungodly Rom 4:5 !

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul in Rom 5:19 teaches the same thing, that by Christ's one obedience unto death, for the many whom He died for are made Righteous, or Justified !

Now to prove that this being made Righteous and or Justified before God is prior to any acts of Gospel Obedience from the sinner, and while they are yet ungodly, we will look at Rom 4:25 where the proof lies in the witness of Christ's resurrection from the dead, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification !

Now exactly how does this prove this vital gracious Truth ? Its simple, by the three letter word for, a preposition the greek word dia which means:


i.by reason of


ii.on account of


iii.because of for this reason

v.on this account

for sake of

Now, Paul says #1 that Christ was delivered for [on account of] our offenses, which applies to everyone that He was delivered to death for, on account of their sins/offences !

Now the same ones it is said that He was raised again for [on account of] their Justification !

There it is, His being raised again is a testification that His death for them was their Justification before God.

That word Justification is the greek word dikaiōsis:

I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

Hence this is God's solemn affirmation that the death of Christ has made them He died for Righteous, and freed them from all guilt before Him !

Now, if this Resurrection of Christ took place in 33 ad, affirming the Justification of those He died for, then when a future believer[say in 1900] is born a sinner by nature, ungodly, and under the control of that spirit which worketh in the disobedient Eph 2:2, they have already been declared Righteous/Not guilty before God by the Resurrection of Christ, centuries before in 33 ad, so they were born in sin already Justified and Righteous before God, they just dont know it yet !

And to say otherwise is a rejection of the Testimony of Christ's Resurrection, which is a Gospel Truth 1 Cor 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

So here are the alternatives, we either believe that those Christ died for were Justified before God, made Righteous before Him by it, or we reject the Gospel Testimony and remain in unbelief ! 14