Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[Albion]

Christ Justified any and everyone He died for without Faith, even while they are ungodly.

That kind of non-answer is exactly why I asked what you imagine the term justification to mean. Merely using it in a sentence, as you do, doesn't show an accurate understanding of the concept, and it sure doesn't answer any of the many questions you have been asked by the Christian posters here who have pointed out that the Bible rebuts your statements on the subject.

 

[prism]

My claim is scripture, which you appear not to believe.

I've heard of 'Jack Mormon', heck why not 'Jack Calvinist'?

 

[brightfame52]

I have...and that's why I asked you to explain why your theory on justification is preferred over the Scriptural definition. I'll take it from your reply here that you really do not have a good reason to reject the Bible's treatment of the matter.

Well if you read my posts, you know what I believe.

 

[brightfame52]

That kind of non-answer is exactly why I asked what you imagine the term justification to mean. Merely using it in a sentence, as you do, doesn't show an accurate understanding of the concept, and it sure doesn't answer any of the many questions you have been asked by the Christian posters here who have pointed out that the Bible rebuts your statements on the subject.

I have been explaining what Justification means, read my posts

 

[brightfame52]

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it !

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it and the Resurrection of Christ from the dead after having died for our sins proves it ! One of the biggect lies in antichrist false religion, it is the distortion of the Blessed Gospel Doctrine of Justification by Faith, not because its not true, but because the distorters of this Truth deceitfully neglect that there is a Justification of the sinners Christ died for before they are Justified by Faith, and has nothing to do with their faith or believing it; which Justification also imutes to them Righteousness,as it is stated here Rom 4:6

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Imputeth Righteousness without works ! That word works is the greek word ergon and means:


I.business, employment, that which any one is occupied

A.that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking



II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So this Righteousness was imputed to them without any act, deed, thing done by them, not even with their mind !

In fact this Righteousness is charged to the account of every sinner Christ died for Rom 5:8 before they are born into this world a sinner as well as before they repent and believe the Gospel; This is to say that this Righteousness / Justification had been applied to their account and persons even while they are in reality and actively being sinners, ungodly, and enemies ; and the reason why we know this to be True is because when Christ was raised from the dead, after having been delivered to death for their their sins laid to His charge, upon rising from the dead , it was because God reckoned THEM Justified before Him, Which scripture testifies to here Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The AMP reads :

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].

The NASB reads:

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification. 13

 

[brightfame52]

That kind of non-answer is exactly why I asked what you imagine the term justification to mean. Merely using it in a sentence, as you do, doesn't show an accurate understanding of the concept, and it sure doesn't answer any of the many questions you have been asked by the Christian posters here who have pointed out that the Bible rebuts your statements on the subject.

Look it up in the concordance, the term Justification, thats what I believe it means. Thats not going to help your disbelief.

 

[brightfame52]

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it ! 2

Yes He was raised again because of their Justification, in other words, His Justification from their sins and death on their behalf was theirs, since it was their wage of death and sins He died for in the first place, so why would not His Justification be theirs also , and so the Spirit of Prophecy regarding Christ says Isa 50:4-9

4 The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.

5 The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.

6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

7 For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.

9 Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

John Gill says of Vs 8-9:

He is near that justifieth me,.... His Father was "near" him in his whole state of humiliation; he left him not alone; he was at his right hand, and therefore he was not moved; and "justified" him from all the calumnies of his enemies, or the false charges they brought against him, and from all the sins of his people that were upon him; these he took upon him, and bore them, and made satisfaction for them, upon which he was acquitted; and which is evident by his resurrection from the dead, by his ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God; and by the gifts of the Spirit, extraordinary and ordinary, he received for men, and gave unto them; see 1 Timothy 3:16.

Who will contend with me? being thus acquitted; will the law and justice of God litigate the point with him? they are both satisfied; will Satan dispute the matter with him? he is foiled, conquered, and destroyed; or will the wicked Jews enter the argument with him? wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Yes Christ was raised again because of their Justification ! If we read Rom 4:25 in the NASB its:

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Yes, that's why He was raised, because those for whom sins He was delivered had been acquitted of them, and that forever !

The YLT is enlightening as well :

25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

Thats basically what Paul writes again here Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word made as in made righteous is the greek word kathistēmi and does mean :

C.to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

So in line with Rom 4:25, Rom 5:19 can read:

19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be declared righteous.

Now, this proves that without a shadow of doubt, that Christ's Resurrection from the dead is proof positive that God reckons all those He died for as Righteous, Acquitted from all sin. His Resurrection proves they are not in their sins as stated here if His resurrection would not have occurred 1 Cor 15:17

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

See God given Faith believes that because of Christ's death, and resurrection, those He died for are not in their sins, His death having satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, but if they were not acquitted by His Death, and He did not raise from the dead, Faith has no promise to rely upon ! But the Truth of their acquittal was before their Faith to believe it was !

 

[brightfame52]

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it ! 3

The word Justification here in Rom 4:25 is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:


I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him


II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

It denotes the acquittal of all for whom Christ died, and abjuring or declaring them to be Righteous !

Its the same word used here too Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification G1347 of life.

The All men here receive as a Free Gift of Justification of Life, and they did nothing but be sinners and rebellious, its a Gift bestowed upon them simply because of the Righteousness of ONE, The Life Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ !

By them being free from guilt, they have been released from all Divine Punishment. None of these in 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Not one of them can be one for whom Christ died, it would be impossible, for that would overthrow the Throne of Truth !

All for whom He died have been abjured Righteous, Just, and it has been solely on the success of Christ's Death, and by that alone application of it has been made to their persons and account, even though its not yet known or realized by them.

Now finally, if we deny this Justification before Faith, We also deny the death of Christ for sin before ones Faith, and His resurrection from the dead before ones Faith, which is a terrible delusion to be found in, and at this point in world history, more than likely a fatal one !

13

 

[Albion]

As usual, the issue isn't Justification itself but the role that's played by Faith. If Faith is made out to be merely an "offshoot" of Justification, an automatic consequence of Justification, or something merely symbolic...

a huge part of the New Testament gets denied in the process. How do you rationalize that away?

 

[brightfame52]

Raised again for/because of our Justification !

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for/because of our justification.

Paul here reveals a profound Truth to believers that very few have the Grace to believe, and thats, all for whom Christ hath been delivered for or because of their sins, upon His Resurrection, the Free Gift of Justification has been applied to them, hence every sinner born into this world as His enemy, as a child of wrath by nature as others Eph 2:3, yet Christ has died for them and risen again for their Justification, they are born into this world discharged from every Sin, Transgression, Trespass, Offence they will ever commit in this world in their flesh through Adam; Their discharge has been APPLIED the milimeter second they enter this world by nature a child of wrath Eph 2:3, their Justification from all things is Just as Valid as Long as Christ Resurrection from the dead is Valid, which is forever, for it is written of Him following His Resurrection for them Rom 6:9

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Understand, He being raised from the dead [because of their Justification Rom 4:25] dieth no more, so they [whom He was raised for their Justification] can never be charged with any sins that brings forth death Rom 6:23, not even for sins they shall commit as children of wrath by nature as others !

Now this does not mean that they are in the flesh immune to feeling sinful, or confession of sin, for David was a Man who was Justified from all sin by non imputation, but did at times feel and confess his sinfulness Ps 32:1-5

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.

4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

However even with that, he and all for whom Christ died are Justified from and acquitted from any and all penalties of it, even from the penalty of unbelief, because ones unbelief and ignorance does not affect or reverse their Justification evidenced by His Resurrection, for its a valid immutable fact while they are unbelieves and enemies and ignorant to the fact of their Justification.

The Testimony of their acquittal by or because of Christ's Resurrection isn't changed one iota because of their unbelief, simply because their Justification is God's Faithfulness to His Son for His Work, not their faith, though it was His Work on their behalf ! The Mercy of Justification is showed to Christ, by applying it to His sinful Seed Ps 89:27-36

27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

 

[Albion]

Well, eliminating Faith from the process of salvation cannot be squared with the BIble's testimony, period.

 

[brightfame52]

Be careful with being Justified by Faith !

Rom 3:28

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

To be Justified by Faith BEFORE GOD cannot mean and does not mean that a person is Justified BEFORE GOD by their own act of human faith or act of believing, simply because that would equate to being Justified by keeping the Law or by works man does !

Thats because Faith is a doing of the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Faith is a weightier matter of the LAW that ought to have been DONE ! Thats a work, there is no escaping that !

The word done here , the greek word ποιέω (poieō) means works :

Matt 7:22

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done G4160 many wonderful works?

Matt 23:5

But all their works they do G4160 for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

So yes, ones own faith is works or doing the law, something required to have been done !

Now with this in mine, the only biblical and scriptural way for a person to be Justified by Faith[BEFORE GOD] apart from the deeds of the Law as in Rom 3:28

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Is when Faith equates/is regards to Christ's Faith / Faithfulness ! See if it be our Faith, then our Law keeping Justified us before God, but if it is His Faith/Faithfulness, then that is what Justified us before God, take your pick , for it cannot be both ! Either the sinners Law Keeping Justified us before God, or the Saviors Law keeping Justified us before God, because Faith is a work of the Law Matt 23:23 !

 

[Albion]

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

That's the standard Protestant position on the matter. However, it doesn't address your own theory by which Faith is made to be insignificant or pointless.

Is when Faith equates/is regards to Christ's Faith / Faithfulness ! See if it be our Faith, then our Law keeping Justified us before God,

None of that ^ accurately describes the role of Faith as it's taught in the Bible and in almost every Christian church.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification is the result of imputation !

Justification is the result of imputation, meaning that all for whom Christ died, since their sins had been charged /imputed to Him, or as The Prophet writes Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all. AMP

And as a result, that is their Justification before God; However the result or fruit of that Justification is New Birth, Regeneration, or Quickening, to be Made Alive by the Spirit, which is an application/communication of that Resurrected Life we have in our Head, Christ making us alive based upon the Justification we have through His Blood, for Life is in the Blood, so Life is communicated to them on the basis of His Blood and Righteousness, which satisfied Law and Justice ! 13

 

[Lamb]

to be Made Alive by the Spirit, which is an application/communication of that Resurrected Life

Wouldn't that be "by grace through faith"?

 

[Albion]

Justification is the result of imputation !

Justification is the result of imputation, meaning that all for whom Christ died, since their sins had been charged /imputed to Him, or as The Prophet writes Isa 53:6

I noticed this before, but it looks like where you started to go wrong was in thinking that the standards of the Old Testament, as given to the Hebrew people, remained the same for all humans forevermore.

This makes Christ (whom you try to shoehorn into the OT Law after the fact) and his redemptive work be nothing more than a continuation of the system that God in his mercy relieved us from by personally taking on our own sins and paying the price for them Himself.

 

[brightfame52]

Wouldn't that be "by grace through faith"?

Its what I said it was.

 

[Albion]

Its what I said it was.

Grace that's NOT through faith, in other words.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification is the result of imputation !2

The death of Christ for all the seed of Abraham, his Spiritual Seed chosen in Christ before the foundation, results in their Legal Justification, as well and it will be followed by Justification experimentally, what Paul means here 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification experimentally or Sanctification of the Spirit follows and is the fruit of Justification Legally by the blood of Christ !

In our above verse Legally we are washed from our sins Rev 1:5; Heb 1:3 also that is Justification in the name of the Lord,

And Sanctified, and by the Spirit of our God is the experimental aspect.

And there is yet another aspect that we shall experience in the future which is Glorification, all of which is the fruit of Christ's death ! 13

 

[Albion]

...what Paul means here 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification experimentally or Sanctification of the Spirit follows and is the fruit of Justification Legally by the blood of Christ !

In our above verse Legally we are washed from our sins Rev 1:5; Heb 1:3 also that is Justification in the name of the Lord,

And Sanctified, and by the Spirit of our God is the experimental aspect.

As the part you didn't highlight makes clear, Paul is not speaking to people in general but to Christians, people who were already believers, who had come to Christ by FAITH.