Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[brightfame52]

All that believe are or have been Justified ! 2

Again, the point being made here is that only those already Justified believe as an evidence of the fact !

Now the word Justified in Rom 3:24

Being justified freely [without conditions by us] by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Its the greek word dikaioō:

I.
to render righteous or such he ought to be

II.
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

III.
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

As we can see, one of its fundamental meanings is to render Righteous, to regard as Righteous, so its very appropriate to translate the verse as follows Rom 3:24

Being made Righteous freely by his grace through dia[because of] the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Yes, by that fact alone, not because of their Faith, or Repentance, or Calling on the Name of the Lord, but solely and completely by His Blood. Now understand, all such ones, shall have their Free Gift of Righteousness and acquittal made known to them, or revealed to them, by a Powerful persuasion of the Gospel as the Power of God in the Hand of the Spirit, by this powerful persuasion they do believe, and so it is, all that come to believe by the Power of the Gospel, had been Justifed from all things, and of course all who never come to believe by Spiritual persuasion, its simply because they were not of the Sheepfold Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

And so they never had the Right to believe, nor the ability Jn 12:37-39

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

And they were never Justified from all things ! 12

 

[Albion]

All that believe are or have been Justified ! 2

Again, the point being made here is that only those already Justified believe as an evidence of the fact !

On the contrary, that passage from Acts is saying that all who believe (not all who were previously justified by an unconditional act of God) are pardoned thereby. Nothing that your theory adds is supported by the verse.

"by this Jesus everyone who believes is set free from all those sins from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses." (NRSV)

 

[Josiah]

On the contrary, that passage from Acts is saying that all who believe (not all who were previously justified by an unconditional act of God) are pardoned thereby. Nothing that your theory adds is supported by the verse.

"by this Jesus everyone who believes is set free from all those sins from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses." (NRSV)

Bingo.

It's Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide - Soli Deo Glory as one, united, inseparable truth. This heretical attempt to rip faith from justification, to make faith irrelevant to personal justification is clearly unbiblical. And this attempt to insist that God gives faith to all for whom Christ died is entirely unsupported, Scripture never remotely says that and Christianity has never affirmed or believed that idea.



.

 

[brightfame52]

On the contrary, that passage from Acts is saying that all who believe (not all who were previously justified by an unconditional act of God) are pardoned thereby. Nothing that your theory adds is supported by the verse.

"by this Jesus everyone who believes is set free from all those sins from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses." (NRSV)

No its not on the contrary. Its Truth

 

[Albion]

No its not on the contrary. Its Truth

But if it actually were the truth, you'd have something that shows it to be so. The word of God doesn't do that, and I don't know what else would be better. Do you??

 

[brightfame52]

But if it actually were the truth, you'd have something that shows it to be so. The word of God doesn't do that, and I don't know what else would be better. Do you??

Post 881, I just showed you that !

 

[Josiah]

Post 881, I just showed you that !

CLEARLY, OBVIOUSLY, you did not. None of the Scriptures you quote (and it's few) state what you do. NOTHING about any justification apart from faith. Nothing.



.

 

[prism]

All that believe are or have been Justified ! 2

Again, the point being made here is that only those already Justified believe as an evidence of the fact !

Now the word Justified in Rom 3:24

Being justified freely [without conditions by us] by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Its the greek word dikaioō:

Going beyond Scripture by the use of human reasoning is a poor way of establishing biblical doctrine.
Scripture reveals we are justified through faith in Jesus (He was revealed/incarnated in due time), not before or after we believed. I would agree, we are justified as a result of our election, but only human logic which would skip over Scriptual boundaries would conclude we were justified before the foundation of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

Going beyond Scripture by the use of human reasoning is a poor way of establishing biblical doctrine.
Scripture reveals we are justified through faith in Jesus (He was revealed/incarnated in due time), not before or after we believed. I would agree, we are justified as a result of our election, but only human logic which would skip over Scriptual boundaries would conclude we were justified before the foundation of the world.

So apparently you deny that Christs death Justified them He died for before God prior to their believing ?

 

[Albion]

So apparently you deny that Christs death Justified them He died for before God prior to their believing ?

It's becoming clearer that the reason we aren't getting through to you is not entirely because there's a theological disagreement.

 

[prism]

So apparently you deny that Christs death Justified them He died for before God prior to their believing ?

You are living in the land of speculation my friend. Until you can show me from Scripture that we are justified before faith, I refuse to tread those grounds.

 

[brightfame52]

You are living in the land of speculation my friend. Until you can show me from Scripture that we are justified before faith, I refuse to tread those grounds.

So apparently you deny that Christs death Justified them He died for before God prior to their believing ? And thats all I have been doing, that those who Christ died for are Justified before God before believing, thats why I can say you deny it, which I consider unbelief

 

[Lamb]

So apparently you deny that Christs death Justified them He died for before God prior to their believing ? And thats all I have been doing, that those who Christ died for are Justified before God before believing, thats why I can say you deny it, which I consider unbelief

They believe in the Savior, so it's not true that they have unbelief.

I agree with you that objectively we are justified because of Christ's death and resurrection and then subjectively we receive faith to believe.

 

[brightfame52]

They believe in the Savior, so it's not true that they have unbelief.

I agree with you that objectively we are justified because of Christ's death and resurrection and then subjectively we receive faith to believe.

But when you dont believe that the Saviour Justified you by His death, that is unbelief, else what are you beliving the Saviour did by His death if it didnt Justify you ?

 

[brightfame52]

@Lamb

I agree with you that objectively we are justified because of Christ's death and resurrection and then subjectively we receive faith to believe.

So you believe that everyone without exception by Christs Death and resurrection are Justified before God objectively ?

 

[Albion]

But when you dont believe that the Saviour Justified you by His death, that is unbelief, else what are you beliving the Saviour did by His death if it didnt Justify you ?

For Goodness' sake, one of the main themes of the New Testament is that people should come to Faith in Christ or else they are lost!

The heretical, unscriptural clap-trap that defines the contrary theory (which we've been reading here) is a lot closer to "unbelief" than the Gospel message that's taught by almost every Christian church of whatever denomination.

 

[brightfame52]

For Goodness' sake, one of the main themes of the New Testament is that people should come to Faith in Christ or else they are lost!

The contrary theory that's been advocated on this thread--that none of this (repentance, Faith, trust in Christ, etc) is either necessary, effective, or important--is a lot closer to "unbelief" than the heretical, unscriptural clap-trap of the opposite view which has been promoted on this thread.

But when you dont believe that the Saviour Justified you by His death, that is unbelief, else what are you beliving the Saviour did by His death if it didnt Justify you ?

 

[Albion]

So you believe that everyone without exception by Christs Death and resurrection are Justified before God objectively ?

Because that word (justification) is the cause of so much confusion, let's word the matter differently.

Mankind was redeemed by Christ's sacrifice. It may have been in God's mind to do this from long before the first century AD, but to say that it was already accomplished prior to the Incarnation, is clearly opposed to Scripture. As a result of that act, we individuals are eligible to be saved depending on whether or not we accept, by Faith, Christ's redemptive work.

 

[Albion]

But when you dont believe that the Saviour Justified you by His death, that is unbelief, else what are you beliving the Saviour did by His death if it didnt Justify you ?

I made a mistake in the wording of one of those sentences. While I was correcting it, you were preparing your reply. Please read my corrected version of that post (896) now as well as post #898 for the answer to what I believe about this matter.

 

[Lamb]

Romans 3:23-24
"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

This is the perfect verse to describe objective justification. We all have sinned and we all are justified. Now, does that benefit us without faith? No. Verse 25 explains:

"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith."