Would You Trust...

[tango]

You speak of my theology conveniently overlooking a few verses, where you evidently skip over the vast majority of the book in general;

I don't generally use the nkjv but can cut and paste from it so let me check something real quick;

I've cut the Scripture quotes for brevity, hoping to take up less than an entire screen.

You've cited lots of things that merely mention Jesus as "the Son of God", "the Lamb of God" and other references that mention God our Father and Jesus Christ separately. But all this is covered at the beginning of John's gospel where he writes "the Word was with God and the Word was God". The Word was both with God, and God. So Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God. So all the verses that talk of Jesus being with God align with the start of John's gospel.

Perhaps now you understand why I didn't initially quote scripture from the Bible.

Not at all, any time you want to make a case from Scripture it's good to quote at least some verses that support the point you're trying to make. It's certainly more productive than saying "please read your bibles" and "try a different version".

I can open to anywhere in the Bible to verify what I say. I think it's your turn.

I don't think any of what you have posted verifies what you say in the light of how John's gospel starts.

I do not overlook anything I read in any scripture except maybe things in parentheses, brackets, or crucifixes as they have either been added or otherwise manipulated in some manner.

I'd assume nobody believes they are overlooking anything, but when Scripture appears to contradict Scripture it's probably safe to say that at least one of the apparently contradictory passages has been misunderstood.

 

[tango]

Brighten04,

I spoke of geneology and its irrelevance. I spoke of the woman who birthed Christ. I did speak of the Godhead, or Christ conciousness, and the selfless conscience.

The Lord was similar to Moses and Elias, John the Baptist, but he was the only perfect/ pure/ without sin -ever. He was also prophesied about in two different times. And in two different ways for two different reasons. He was indeed the firstborn of GOD.

I've thought about it some...
I already know that for me personally Lord and God are equivalent. The issue lies in the worship of a man. This has potential to be very, very detrimental to our very existence. We are to try to unite under God at this time, not attempt to speed the coming of the end.

Thank you for your prayer for my direction under God. I too, will pray for you, and for us to peaceably resolve our differences for the sake of God's purpose for us if it is his will.

I understand that Jesus of Nazareth could have been God incarnate, and to state otherwise is to limit my own Faith in the abilities and will of God. the fact that there will be an antichrist, and a deceiver and people worshiping a man as God are yu to main reasons I refute Jesus, when he was a man being absolutely equal to GOD. I'm trying to avoid what may be inevitable.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

If the worship of a man is so dangerous why didn't Thomas get rebuked when he said "my Lord and my God!" in John 20:28?

There are a few other examples:

Mat 2:11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
Mat 8:2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean."
Mat 14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God."
Mat 15:25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, help me!"
Joh 9:38 Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him.

... and yet worship of Peter was wrong:

Act 10:25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man."



(edited to remove the underscores in the Scripture references so they highlight)

 

[popsthebuilder]

If the worship of a man is so dangerous why didn't Thomas get rebuked when he said "my Lord and my God!" in John 20:28?

There are a few other examples:

Mat_2:11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
Mat_8:2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean."
Mat_14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God."
Mat_15:25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, help me!"
Joh_9:38 Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him.

... and yet worship of Peter was wrong:

Act 10:25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man."

There are quite a few verses that Jesus states that he isn't to be worshipped or even mentioned, but that all praise thanks and worship should be directed towards GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Brighten04]

There are quite a few verses that Jesus states that he isn't to be worshipped or even mentioned, but that all praise thanks and worship should be directed towards GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Please list them, book,chapter and verse.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Please list them, book,chapter and verse.

I will have to find them. It may take some time as my memory of names and numbers is poor and some of the bible I have only read once or twice.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Brighten04]

I will have to find them. It may take some time as my memory of names and numbers is poor and some of the bible I have only read once or twice.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

That is fine. The thread is not going anywhere.

 

[Inkachu]

If the conversion was sincere, why wouldn't I trust them? They're a brother/sister in Christ.

 

[psalms 91]

If it is, there are many in Germany converting just so they can stay

 

[Brighten04]

If the conversion was sincere, why wouldn't I trust them? They're a brother/sister in Christ.

So how do you know the conversion is sincere?

 

[Brighten04]

If it is, there are many in Germany converting just so they can stay

So do you believe these conversions are sincere?

 

[tango]

There are quite a few verses that Jesus states that he isn't to be worshipped or even mentioned, but that all praise thanks and worship should be directed towards GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

You seem very good at quoting verses some of the time and then making vague comments about "there are quite a few verses" at other times.

If Jesus isn't to be worshipped could you explain why he didn't correct the people in any of the situations I listed above?

Peter told Cornelius not to worship him in Acts 10:25-26. The angel told John not to worship him in Rev 22:8-9. But Jesus didn't tell any of the people not to worship him in the verses I previously listed.

 

[tango]

I will have to find them. It may take some time as my memory of names and numbers is poor and some of the bible I have only read once or twice.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

You can always get yourself a copy of something like e-sword. You can get it from http://www.e-sword.net and you don't even have to pay for it (they take donations which are truly voluntary). It lets you search the Bible for words, phrases, that kind of thing. It's really useful if you can't remember where in Isaiah a particular quote originated and don't feel like reading all 66 chapters to find it, only to then realise it was actually in Jeremiah.

 

[tango]

If it is, there are many in Germany converting just so they can stay

I'd be surprised if any nation would allow someone to stay just because they claimed to have changed faith. Especially Germany, where they have the history of requiring Jews to be marked in the not-so-distant past.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Matthew 7 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
2: And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3: And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
4: And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
2: And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3: And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
4: And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
4: And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Matthew 9 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
8: But when the multitude saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

Matthew 9 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
30: And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.

Matthew 9 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
38: Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

Will do more later.

Peace



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Brighten04]

Matthew 7 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
2: And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3: And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
4: And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
2: And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3: And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
4: And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Matthew 8 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
4: And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Matthew 9 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
8: But when the multitude saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

Matthew 9 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
30: And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.

Matthew 9 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
38: Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

Will do more later.

Peace



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

In none of these does Lord Jesus say do not worship me. In none of these does He refuse to be worshiped. There are no scriptures that support your claim that Lord Jesus was not, or not to be worshiped while He walked the Earth in the flesh.

 

[tango]

In none of these does Lord Jesus say do not worship me. In none of these does He refuse to be worshiped. There are no scriptures that support your claim that Lord Jesus was not, or not to be worshiped while He walked the Earth in the flesh.

I was about to say exactly that but you got there first.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Matthew 10 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
24: The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Matthew 10 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
25: It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Matthew 10 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
26: Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27: What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Those two are references to Crist consciousness.


Matthew 10 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
32: Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
33: But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
42: And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Matthew 11 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
6: And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Matthew 11 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
10: For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Remember; none can behold the face of God or the truth.

That still stands at this time as does most scripture from the New Covenant.

Matthew 11 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
27: All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 12 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
16: And charged them that they should not make him known:

Matthew 12 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
18: Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Matthew 12 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
50: For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Matthew 13 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
57: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Matthew 14 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
33: Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 16 (KJV) - ማቴዎስ
16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

More later. Sorry some isn't specifically what you asked for.




Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Telling people to not speak of him but follow his teachings is really close to saying out right not to worship him. I already explained the reason. And agree with all you say except for the fact that we are not to worship any man, yet you still choose to go against what is written and bicker with me. What are we even arguing at this point? Did you not pray, or was it not heart felt. None of my business perhaps, just don't understand the conflict as I have agreed with you and explained my position. Have I blasphemed the holy spirit?

Peace.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Lamb]

If Jesus isn't to be worshipped could you explain why he didn't correct the people in any of the situations I listed above?

Peter told Cornelius not to worship him in Acts 10:25-26. The angel told John not to worship him in Rev 22:8-9. But Jesus didn't tell any of the people not to worship him in the verses I previously listed.

Peter told Cornelius that he himself shouldn't be worshiped. Of course Jesus wouldn't correct that.

In Revelation, the angel told John to worship God and Jesus is God.

Your verses don't back up your claims.

 

[Brighten04]

Telling people to not speak of him but follow his teachings is really close to saying out right not to worship him. I already explained the reason. And agree with all you say except for the fact that we are not to worship any man, yet you still choose to go against what is written and bicker with me. What are we even arguing at this point? Did you not pray, or was it not heart felt. None of my business perhaps, just don't understand the conflict as I have agreed with you and explained my position. Have I blasphemed the holy spirit?

Peace.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I pray you get saved. But you need to learn who Lord Jesus is.