Would You Trust...

popsthebuilder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,850
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Being of God is in no way the exact same as being GOD no matter what man you speak of. It is irrelevant. Jesus is not a man any longer, nor was he a man before the foundation of the earth. LORD and GOD are synonimous.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Brighten04

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
2,188
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Protestant
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
So you believe that Jesus the Christ was exactly the same as the Father as he walked the earth as a man?

It was my understanding that he was more so equivalent to Elias as a man. It just does not make sense that Jesus as a man; the son of God, and the son of man, was equivalent to GOD, the creator of man, as he was yet a man.

I humbly ask that you explain how I am in error.

Thank you sincerely,

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


Humbly I say you do not even know who Jesus is, that is your error. Jesus said before Abraham was I AM. That right there is the affirmative Word of God. Your understanding that He was more equivalent to Elias shows that you have put Him below John the Baptist whom Lord Jesus declared
Matt. 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matt.1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US( emphasis mine)
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,282
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
So you believe that Jesus the Christ was exactly the same as the Father as he walked the earth as a man?

It was my understanding that he was more so equivalent to Elias as a man. It just does not make sense that Jesus as a man; the son of God, and the son of man, was equivalent to GOD, the creator of man, as he was yet a man.

I humbly ask that you explain how I am in error.

Thank you sincerely,

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
As you just stated it you are not in error. Jesus was man on earth fully endowed with the spirit, He had to be man or satan would have cried foul, what you were stating previously sounded as if you didnt accept the trinity and the fact that Jesus is God.
 

Brighten04

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
2,188
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Protestant
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Being of God is in no way the exact same as being GOD no matter what man you speak of. It is irrelevant. Jesus is not a man any longer, nor was he a man before the foundation of the earth. LORD and GOD are synonimous.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Now that is confusing right there.
 

TurtleHare

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1,057
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Jesus of Nazareth as a man was not equivalent to GOD, but subsidiary and of GOD.

You may find one or two spots in scripture where it almost insinuates that Jesus is equivalent to the Creator, but you can easily see many more spots where it states in many ways that Christ is under GOD. To be oblivious to the obvious fact is a shame, and can only be the product of misleading doctrine of some sort that isn't fully based on accurate comprehension of scripture which should be the test for all doctrine.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Jesus IS God.
 

Brighten04

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
2,188
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Protestant
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
I'm glad we cleared that up.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

How is that clear? It is only partially clear. You said earlier that Jesus became God. No! Jesus is Alpha and Omega.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
If you think that the son of God or God's creation has always been absolutely equivalent to the Father and Creator then you are very confused and lack simple logic. The son can never be equivalent to the father. Man can never be equivalent to GOD. To think such is the product of intentional misdirection.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I'm not sure how else to interpret "the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Furthermore if we look at how the Bible tells us we can test spirits we see this:

1Jn 4:1-3 NKJV Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (2) By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, (3) and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Mat 16:15-17 NKJV He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" (16) Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (17) Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Joh 8:57-58 NKJV Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" (58) Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."


For Jesus to speak "I AM" was a pretty bold statement. So bold, in fact, that in Jn 8:59 they took up stones to throw at him. Had Jesus not been God he would have been a blasphemer, in which case he deserved to die on the cross and his death means nothing.

(For the record, for me to agree with both Bill and Brighten in the same thread is pretty rare, so that alone is worth a mention!)
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Being of God is in no way the exact same as being GOD no matter what man you speak of. It is irrelevant. Jesus is not a man any longer, nor was he a man before the foundation of the earth. LORD and GOD are synonimous.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

That's probably why John's gospel says "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (italics mine). Jesus was God from the beginning and took on human form. Unless being God is the kind of thing one can take off and put on like a hat, Jesus remained God even while he walked this earth as a man. When Jesus spoke to the paralytic in Mark 2 the first thing he said was "your sins are forgiven". He then proved he had authority to forgive sins by healing the man in front of everybody. Who has authority to forgive sins other than God?
 

popsthebuilder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,850
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That's probably why John's gospel says "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (italics mine). Jesus was God from the beginning and took on human form. Unless being God is the kind of thing one can take off and put on like a hat, Jesus remained God even while he walked this earth as a man. When Jesus spoke to the paralytic in Mark 2 the first thing he said was "your sins are forgiven". He then proved he had authority to forgive sins by healing the man in front of everybody. Who has authority to forgive sins other than God?
Okay, like I said earlier; you can find a couple of cases for your position in the new testament.

You can readily observe hundreds or thousands of instances in scripture where Jesus is revered to separately and under God and not equivalent to GOD the Creator, or the Father. What you speak of is intentional deception by the whore of Babylon. Please read your bible, maybe try a different version or something.
I don't mean to offend, but the masses are fooled intentionally. It is a means of removing their potential under God by breaking the connection through deceit.

That's stuff is all through the bible people.

In the bible it says there is one God, and it goes on to say in many different ways that Christ is the way to GOD. I'm not going to go into detail on that at this time. But please study your book without bias from whatever doctrine has been pushed into your personal belief system. Jesus is the son of God and the way to GOD through his example and sacrifice. I don't know how else to put it at this time. I'm not manipulating anything. It's all written plain as day in the bible. Some versions may be a little more poorly translated for whatever reasons but the message is still clear for any with clear ears and opened eyes. Bias and preconceptions are difficult to get rid of. Introspection and honesty on a personal level with self are important.
I am sorry if I offend anyone, really.

Peace.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Brighten04

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
2,188
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Protestant
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Okay, like I said earlier; you can find a couple of cases for your position in the new testament.

You can readily observe hundreds or thousands of instances in scripture where Jesus is revered to separately and under God and not equivalent to GOD the Creator, or the Father. What you speak of is intentional deception by the whore of Babylon. Please read your bible, maybe try a different version or something.
I don't mean to offend, but the masses are fooled intentionally. It is a means of removing their potential under God by breaking the connection through deceit.

That's stuff is all through the bible people.

In the bible it says there is one God, and it goes on to say in many different ways that Christ is the way to GOD. I'm not going to go into detail on that at this time. But please study your book without bias from whatever doctrine has been pushed into your personal belief system. Jesus is the son of God and the way to GOD through his example and sacrifice. I don't know how else to put it at this time. I'm not manipulating anything. It's all written plain as day in the bible. Some versions may be a little more poorly translated for whatever reasons but the message is still clear for any with clear ears and opened eyes. Bias and preconceptions are difficult to get rid of. Introspection and honesty on a personal level with self are important.
I am sorry if I offend anyone, really.

Peace.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Has it occurred to you that we are correct and your theology is wrong? I think I know what the problem is. You are a non-trinitarian right? You cannot see Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one God. Jesus was in the beginning.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I guess you would say that the Holy Spirit is not God either?
 

popsthebuilder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,850
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Regardless of if Crist- the holy spirit

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,850
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Regardless of if Crist- the holy spirit

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Regardless of if Crist; the holy spirit, and Jesus the Christ where both preordained prior to the foundation of the earth, they are still of God and as such not the same when it comes to the Creator of all existence. The holy spirit is God through man as is Crist. Man was formed by God, he didn't make himself. Even in the case of Jesus. Yes the spirit of God is God. But man is of God and not God in and of itself. Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God and the son of man. Neither of those things are synonymous with GOD the Creator of all existence. Jesus of Nazareth didn't make himself. He did not impregnate Mary. Angels were around before man. They have supernatural abilities. I'll bet you don't call them GOD though.

To me there isn't really a difference in the word Lord and God, but technically Lord refers to king of kings, as in the man over all other men. God refers to the father and creator of both man and all else.

I believe in the Father, the son and the holy ghost. I even agree that the holy spirit is the same as God. Jesus is God and not a man. When he was man he was of God.

Father: GOD
Son: man
Holy spirit: God through man

You can't have either of the latter without the first. The same cannot be said the other way around.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Brighten04

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
2,188
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Protestant
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Regardless of if Crist; the holy spirit, and Jesus the Christ where both preordained prior to the foundation of the earth, they are still of God and as such not the same when it comes to the Creator of all existence. The holy spirit is God through man as is Crist. Man was formed by God, he didn't make himself. Even in the case of Jesus. Yes the spirit of God is God. But man is of God and not God in and of itself. Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God and the son of man. Neither of those things are synonymous with GOD the Creator of all existence. Jesus of Nazareth didn't make himself. He did not impregnate Mary. Angels were around before man. They have supernatural abilities. I'll bet you don't call them GOD though.

To me there isn't really a difference in the word Lord and God, but technically Lord refers to king of kings, as in the man over all other men. God refers to the father and creator of both man and all else.

I believe in the Father, the son and the holy ghost. I even agree that the holy spirit is the same as God. Jesus is God and not a man. When he was man he was of God.

Father: GOD
Son: man
Holy spirit: God through man

You can't have either of the latter without the first. The same cannot be said the other way around.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

:confused: :confused:
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Regardless of if Crist; the holy spirit, and Jesus the Christ where both preordained prior to the foundation of the earth, they are still of God and as such not the same when it comes to the Creator of all existence. The holy spirit is God through man as is Crist. Man was formed by God, he didn't make himself. Even in the case of Jesus. Yes the spirit of God is God. But man is of God and not God in and of itself. Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God and the son of man. Neither of those things are synonymous with GOD the Creator of all existence. Jesus of Nazareth didn't make himself. He did not impregnate Mary. Angels were around before man. They have supernatural abilities. I'll bet you don't call them GOD though.

To me there isn't really a difference in the word Lord and God, but technically Lord refers to king of kings, as in the man over all other men. God refers to the father and creator of both man and all else.

I believe in the Father, the son and the holy ghost. I even agree that the holy spirit is the same as God. Jesus is God and not a man. When he was man he was of God.

Father: GOD
Son: man
Holy spirit: God through man

You can't have either of the latter without the first. The same cannot be said the other way around.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

So if Jesus was not God, under what authority did he forgive sins? Under what authority did he drive out demons? Why did he say things like "before Abraham was born, I AM"?

In a previous post you commented on how "you can find a couple of cases" in the NT for the belief that Jesus is God. The trouble with trying to discuss a lot of these things (and we had similar issues with Scriptures in the assorted threads about healing) is that if your theology requires just ignoring the inconvenient verses in Scripture then the chances are it needs adjusting. In the same post you also wrote "please read your bible" (sic), which is about as unhelpful a comment as it's possible to make in a forum like this one. When people profess a Christian faith it's reasonable to assume they may have opened their Bible once or twice and might even have read some of it, so to just suggest that someone read their Bible without giving any indication as to which chapters or verses you believe might be of use to them is no more useful than saying "you are wrong" with any indication as to why and would be taken by many as an implication you don't believe they do read their Bible. Suggesting we "try a different version or something" without knowing which version(s) we are currently using is also of no use whatsoever.

I have to hand it to you though, it's pretty rare that I like the same posts as either Bill or Brighten (excluding chat-type posts) so the fact we're liking the same posts that counter your posts is quite something.
 

popsthebuilder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,850
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So if Jesus was not God, under what authority did he forgive sins? Under what authority did he drive out demons? Why did he say things like "before Abraham was born, I AM"?

In a previous post you commented on how "you can find a couple of cases" in the NT for the belief that Jesus is God. The trouble with trying to discuss a lot of these things (and we had similar issues with Scriptures in the assorted threads about healing) is that if your theology requires just ignoring the inconvenient verses in Scripture then the chances are it needs adjusting. In the same post you also wrote "please read your bible" (sic), which is about as unhelpful a comment as it's possible to make in a forum like this one. When people profess a Christian faith it's reasonable to assume they may have opened their Bible once or twice and might even have read some of it, so to just suggest that someone read their Bible without giving any indication as to which chapters or verses you believe might be of use to them is no more useful than saying "you are wrong" with any indication as to why and would be taken by many as an implication you don't believe they do read their Bible. Suggesting we "try a different version or something" without knowing which version(s) we are currently using is also of no use whatsoever.

I have to hand it to you though, it's pretty rare that I like the same posts as either Bill or Brighten (excluding chat-type posts) so the fact we're liking the same posts that counter your posts is quite something.
What are you even saying?

Again Jesus was of God and predestined by and created by God, and was the son of God. Please stop putting words in my mouth. Please.

His authority and power came from God. What else?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Brighten04

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
2,188
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Protestant
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
What are you even saying?

Again Jesus was of God and predestined by and created by God, and was the son of God. Please stop putting words in my mouth. Please.

His authority and power came from God. What else?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Where in the Bible that it said Jesus is a created being? Lord Jesus is God incarnate . Lord Jesus is the Creator of everything. Now unless you want to discount scripture, you need to adjust your theology. I believe you need to have the baptism in the Holy Spirit so He can teach you who Jesus is.
 

popsthebuilder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,850
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So if Jesus was not God, under what authority did he forgive sins? Under what authority did he drive out demons? Why did he say things like "before Abraham was born, I AM"?

In a previous post you commented on how "you can find a couple of cases" in the NT for the belief that Jesus is God. The trouble with trying to discuss a lot of these things (and we had similar issues with Scriptures in the assorted threads about healing) is that if your theology requires just ignoring the inconvenient verses in Scripture then the chances are it needs adjusting. In the same post you also wrote "please read your bible" (sic), which is about as unhelpful a comment as it's possible to make in a forum like this one. When people profess a Christian faith it's reasonable to assume they may have opened their Bible once or twice and might even have read some of it, so to just suggest that someone read their Bible without giving any indication as to which chapters or verses you believe might be of use to them is no more useful than saying "you are wrong" with any indication as to why and would be taken by many as an implication you don't believe they do read their Bible. Suggesting we "try a different version or something" without knowing which version(s) we are currently using is also of no use whatsoever.

I have to hand it to you though, it's pretty rare that I like the same posts as either Bill or Brighten (excluding chat-type posts) so the fact we're liking the same posts that counter your posts is quite something.
You speak of my theology conveniently overlooking a few verses, where you evidently skip over the vast majority of the book in general;

I don't generally use the nkjv but can cut and paste from it so let me check something real quick;

John 1 (WEB) - ዮሃንስ
14: The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1 (WEB) - ዮሃንስ
17: For the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

John 1 (WEB) - ዮሃንስ
29: The next day, he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1 (WEB) - ዮሃንስ
34: I have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."

I'll jump somewhere else;

1 Thessalonians 1 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
1: Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Interesting...

1 Thessalonians 1 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
3: Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

1 Thessalonians 1 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
9: For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
1 Thessalonians 1 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
10: And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 2 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
4: But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

1 Thessalonians 2 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
14: For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

1 Thessalonians 2 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
15: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

1 Thessalonians 3 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
2: And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

1 Thessalonians 3 (KJV) - 1ይ ተሰሎንቄ
11: Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

Once more?

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
3: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
4: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
9: Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
14: Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Hebrews 2 (KJV) - እብራውያን
3: How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Hebrews 2 (KJV) - እብራውያን
4: God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Hebrews 2 (KJV) - እብራውያን
7: Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Hebrews 2 (KJV) - እብራውያን
9: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2 (KJV) - እብራውያን
11: For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Perhaps now you understand why I didn't initially quote scripture from the Bible.

I can open to anywhere in the Bible to verify what I say. I think it's your turn.

I do not overlook anything I read in any scripture except maybe things in parentheses, brackets, or crucifixes as they have either been added or otherwise manipulated in some manner.

I look forward to your rebuttal.

Peace

All praise to GOD through Christ.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,850
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Where in the Bible that it said Jesus is a created being? Lord Jesus is God incarnate . Lord Jesus is the Creator of everything. Now unless you want to discount scripture, you need to adjust your theology. I believe you need to have the baptism in the Holy Spirit so He can teach you who Jesus is.
Not sure of the verse or even chapter.

The part where it says the Angel came into Mary, and she conceived.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 
Top Bottom