Would You Trust...

[popsthebuilder]

OK Tell me how they view Jesus, that should settle this

The messenger of God. Similar to other prophets but actually prophesied himself and the only individual ever without sin and wholly and utterly directed under God. They do not consider him the son of God. Nor do that consider any the son of God. Didn't say they were perfect as none are. Christ is the way by his teachings and sacrifice. Many Muslims understand this better than some Christians.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[psalms 91]

If you deny Christ as God then you are not christian, simple.

 

[Brighten04]

Their God? There is only one God. Allah translates to God. The Qur'an is very similar to the Torah and New Covenant. They all refer to the same God.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Yes their god Allah. He has no son.

 

[Brighten04]

The messenger of God. Similar to other prophets but actually prophesied himself and the only individual ever without sin and wholly and utterly directed under God. They do not consider him the son of God. Nor do that consider any the son of God. Didn't say they were perfect as none are. Christ is the way by his teachings and sacrifice. Many Muslims understand this better than some Christians.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I am not trying to be rude here, but what messenger? Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If you deny Christ as God then you are not christian, simple.

Yeah it is obvious us that they aren't Christians.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I am not trying to be rude here, but what messenger? Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

Not trying to be rude either; Jesus was a man. He United with God upon his physical death, becoming one with God. To say Jesus is God in the flesh is misleading on many levels as Jesus is not a man anymore and hasn't been for approximately 2000 years. Jesus himself urged people not to worship him. Do you know why? It was because of the possibility of the masses being misdirected, which, by the way, happened anyway due to the ancient Roman Catholic church and pagans. It's ok to believe that Jesus is the son of God. The problem arises when they confuse the teachings of the Christ, and his example, which is the way to he father, with simply worshiping him in human form. If you read scripture you will see that the way is not worshiping Jesus the man as if he where GOD, but to follow his teachings and example.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Brighten04]

Not trying to be rude either; Jesus was a man. He United with God upon his physical death, becoming one with God. To say Jesus is God in the flesh is misleading on many levels as Jesus is not a man anymore and hasn't been for approximately 2000 years. Jesus himself urged people not to worship him. Do you know why? It was because of the possibility of the masses being misdirected, which, by the way, happened anyway due to the ancient Roman Catholic church and pagans. It's ok to believe that Jesus is the son of God. The problem arises when they confuse the teachings of the Christ, and his example, which is the way to he father, with simply worshiping him in human form. If you read scripture you will see that the way is not worshiping Jesus the man as if he where GOD, but to follow his teachings and example.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Ok, I see you believe differently from me. For Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Ok, I see you believe differently from me. For Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God.

Mine too. Just not as a man as he was when he walked the earth. He was Crist, wholly and with utter purity, something none other will ever be, yet he was a man, and specifically stated not to worship him as GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Brighten04]

Mine too. Just not as a man as he was when he walked the earth. He was Crist, wholly and with utter purity, something none other will ever be, yet he was a man, and specifically stated not to worship him as GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Yet He accepted worship as the Son of God.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Luke 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Matt. 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Matt. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Matt.14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

I could go on and on but, you do get the point.

 

[tango]

Well, I was raised Christian, and any other way imho is suspect of being anti-Christ. Westboro Baptist do not act Christian imho so they are suspect. You...I think , I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I don't know you except by what you write here. So it is easy for me to say I trust you because you are in London. I think I would have suspicions of you if you came to my church and confessed that you were an occultist. This is serious with me. It is a real problem. That is why I started this thread.

So would you trust yourself given you weren't always a Christian and therefore, by your own definition, you were once suspect anti-Christ?

ETA: Being "raised Christian" is all well and good but you can't really consider yourself a Christian until you give your life to Christ of your own volition. I was raised Christian but still spend over a decade involved in the occult, simply because the faith of my parents doesn't become my faith all by itself.

If you wouldn't trust former Muslims, wouldn't trust former occultists, what would you consider acceptable in someone's (now forgiven) past in order to trust them? I don't mean to be picky here, just wondering what needs to be held against someone and for how long?

My job some years ago had us do these trust exercises. We were supposed to fall backward and trust our co-workers to catch us. I did ok on the catching part but not so well on the falling backward part.

I hate that sort of thing and generally don't want to take part. It's easy to say "trust me" but in general I'd tend to say different levels of trust are earned rather than granted simply because someone in a gray suit says "you can trust Jack". Just like I wouldn't let someone loose in my home having just met them, wouldn't lend someone my car unless I knew them pretty well, so I won't just fall backwards in the hope someone will catch me unless I naturally trust them. I don't see an issue with expecting trust past a particular point to be earned, I just don't see that someone's distant past needs to be held against them forever.

 

[tango]

Actually occultists because of their background know power and they know the spiritual; side as well and once converted make very powerful christians

It's probably safe to say we tend to be a lot more cautious than most where power is concerned, and I like to think a lot more discerning than many people.

I've been in a couple of "Christian" meetings that gave me the exact same internal sense (it's hard to describe, but the best way I can think of is sort of like a burning sensation inside) that I used to get when trying to conjure something. I wouldn't expect other people who don't know me to accept my word that something is bad purely based on such a feeling but it's a kind of internal warning system for me that something is wrong. Anyway, these "Christian" meetings disturbed me to the point that I left the room and even then couldn't stand to be around so I left the building completely. That was one of a few triggers that led me to do a lot of research into some of the hypercharismatic groups, and they are groups and churches I increasingly reject.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yet He accepted worship as the Son of God.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Luke 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Matt. 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Matt. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Matt.14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

I could go on and on but, you do get the point.

Okay. Never said he wasn't of God, or the son of God, nor do I agree with all things in the Qur'an. Jesus is Lord and the son of God. As a man he was not equivalent to GOD, the Father and the Creator. Of course, now that he has risen to be with God by following his ultimate direction under the Father, he has joined him, and sits on his right hand, allowing for the mercy of GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[psalms 91]

Not trying to be rude either; Jesus was a man. He United with God upon his physical death, becoming one with God. To say Jesus is God in the flesh is misleading on many levels as Jesus is not a man anymore and hasn't been for approximately 2000 years. Jesus himself urged people not to worship him. Do you know why? It was because of the possibility of the masses being misdirected, which, by the way, happened anyway due to the ancient Roman Catholic church and pagans. It's ok to believe that Jesus is the son of God. The problem arises when they confuse the teachings of the Christ, and his example, which is the way to he father, with simply worshiping him in human form. If you read scripture you will see that the way is not worshiping Jesus the man as if he where GOD, but to follow his teachings and example.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. Who is the Word, Jesus. So we see that Jess always was and was there in the beginning

 

[Brighten04]

Okay. Never said he wasn't of God, or the son of God, nor do I agree with all things in the Qur'an. Jesus is Lord and the son of God. As a man he was not equivalent to GOD, the Father and the Creator. Of course, now that he has risen to be with God by following his ultimate direction under the Father, he has joined him, and sits on his right hand, allowing for the mercy of GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. It does not matter whether you think think/believe He is and always has been God. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. He is the source of everything, visible and invisible. He IS the let there be that spoke Heaven and Earth into existence. He did not become God as you imply.

 

[popsthebuilder]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. It does not matter whether you think think/believe He is and always has been God. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. He is the source of everything, visible and invisible. He IS the let there be that spoke Heaven and Earth into existence. He did not become God as you imply.

If you think that the son of God or God's creation has always been absolutely equivalent to the Father and Creator then you are very confused and lack simple logic. The son can never be equivalent to the father. Man can never be equivalent to GOD. To think such is the product of intentional misdirection.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[psalms 91]

If you think that the son of God or God's creation has always been absolutely equivalent to the Father and Creator then you are very confused and lack simple logic. The son can never be equivalent to the father. Man can never be equivalent to GOD. To think such is the product of intentional misdirection.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

You seem tohave three in one and one in three a little mixed up. Jesus was fully God and fully man manifested on this earth to show God in the flesh.

 

[Brighten04]

If you think that the son of God or God's creation has always been absolutely equivalent to the Father and Creator then you are very confused and lack simple logic. The son can never be equivalent to the father. Man can never be equivalent to GOD. To think such is the product of intentional misdirection.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

No you are the one that is confused. I don't know where you got your theology from, but you are in error.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No you are the one that is confused. I don't know where you got your theology from, but you are in error.

Jesus of Nazareth as a man was not equivalent to GOD, but subsidiary and of GOD.

You may find one or two spots in scripture where it almost insinuates that Jesus is equivalent to the Creator, but you can easily see many more spots where it states in many ways that Christ is under GOD. To be oblivious to the obvious fact is a shame, and can only be the product of misleading doctrine of some sort that isn't fully based on accurate comprehension of scripture which should be the test for all doctrine.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[psalms 91]

Jesus of Nazareth as a man was not equivalent to GOD, but subsidiary and of GOD.

You may find one or two spots in scripture where it almost insinuates that Jesus is equivalent to the Creator, but you can easily see many more spots where it states in many ways that Christ is under GOD. To be oblivious to the obvious fact is a shame, and can only be the product of misleading doctrine of some sort that isn't fully based on accurate comprehension of scripture which should be the test for all doctrine.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I will leave you to what you believe but it is in error

 

[popsthebuilder]

I will leave you to what you believe but it is in error

So you believe that Jesus the Christ was exactly the same as the Father as he walked the earth as a man?

It was my understanding that he was more so equivalent to Elias as a man. It just does not make sense that Jesus as a man; the son of God, and the son of man, was equivalent to GOD, the creator of man, as he was yet a man.

I humbly ask that you explain how I am in error.

Thank you sincerely,

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.