Jesus died for the sins of the world

[SetFree]

Here is 3rd denouncement of the false doctrine of men called CALVINISM.

1. Calvinism preaches that only those pre-ordained will be saved by Christ's Salvation, i.e. that it is not conditional based on their belief, i.e. not by their own choice but by God's.

Then why did Jesus offer His Salvation by faith on Him to the whole world, per the John 3 Scripture I posted above?

And why did Apostles Paul and Peter spend so much time in the New Testament Epistles warning brethren in Christ against falling away, especially in the latter days, if those were pre-ordained by fate to be saved by God's choice and not by their own choice?


When the coming time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world happens, there will be only the following groups during that time...

1. the unbelieving orthodox Jews (deceived in that time).
2. "called" Christians that believe (the John 17 second group), but become DECEIVED and fall away.
3. the "called" Christians that believe (of the second group), that WILL NOT BE DECEIVED AT THE END.
4. the wicked which work for the coming Antichrist.
5. Christ's very elect 'CHOSEN' that 'cannot' be deceived, because He already owns them per John 17.

The Revelation 13:4-8 Scripture reveals the 'whole world' will worship the "dragon" (Satan) at the end when that beast kingdom is setup (not the pope & Rome, but in JERUSALEM. It mentions that ONLY those whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world WILL NOT BE DECEIVED by that "dragon".

Does that mean then, all those believers on Jesus Christ at the end of this world are doomed to destruction in the future "lake of fire", because they fell away? No, because even after Jesus returns, it is written those will stand in judgment throughout His future "thousand years" reign. NO ONE except Satan and his angels are already judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire" at the end of God's Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[Josiah]

That's the false doctrine of men called CALVINISM, which is NOT dependent upon the idea that Jesus died on the cross for ALL based on the condition of accepting Him.

@SetFree

No, the video is not Calvinism (Hint: the speaker is Lutheran). He's quoting the Bible to debunk the modern American philosophy of free-will. You might want to view it.

BTW, I'm not a Calvinist. No way! But I do accept the Bible and traditional/classical/confessional Christianity. And clearly, this whole modern American philosophy of self-destiny, self-determination, self saves self.... this whole dogma of rugged individualism and free will... that's very American but very unbiblical. I believe that Jesus is the Savior and thus Jesus does the Saving.... and that salvation comes via the Cross and faith.. and that both are the "free gift" of God (as the Bible flat out states) and not our doing ("lest anyone have cause to boast").

We EACH must make our OWN CHOICE to either believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, nor not.

Scripture, please..... Please quote the verses that state, "The spiritually dead, unregerate, atheistic unbelieving enemy of God creates and invents faith in his own self and then gives it to himself." The verses that state, "Each must have their OWN FREE CHOICE whether to believe or not."

You reference somethings from John 17 and show that NOWHERE in that chapter does it state that the spiritually dead have "free will" to believe or not believe. Nope, that's not there - as you showed.

Here's what Scripture actually says....

Ephesians 2:1
"You were dead in your trespasses and sins..."

1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit because they are folly to him and he cannot understand them."

Ephesians 1:3-7
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace."

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

Acts 13:48
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

John 15:16
"You did not choose me, but I chose you."

Romans 8:29-30
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

2 Timothy 1:9
"Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."

Matthew 24:22-24
"And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

Others....
Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20,22,27; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1, and many, many more.

No need for man's philosophy on that going around in circles. Jesus went straight to the point, He has His elect 'chosen' sent ones that were given to Him by The Father, which originally belonged... to The Father (idea of ordained and predestined), and then the second group that MUST of their OWN FREE WILL come to believe by their preaching of The Gospel (i.e., "through their word").

Nope. That's nowhere in John 17. He simply is noting that some already believe... some don't yet. Never is "own free will" mentioned. That's a huge modern American philosophy but it's entirely missing in Scripture.



@SetFree

"TULIP" (the summery of radical, later-day Calvinism) teaches that Jesus did not die for all (as the Bible repeatedly and verbatim states) but rather ONLY for the elect. I reject that (as nearly all Christians do) - it flat out contradicts clear, verbatim Scriptures (as well as a Church Council and 1600 years of Christian faith). That's wrong. But Calvin was right that Jesus is the Savior and Jesus does the saving, supplying both the Cross and the faith that apprehends/relies/applies that atoning work and thus has personal justification. The American philosophy of free will, self-determination, self-saves-self is something Calvin rejected; it's American not Calvinist.





.

 

[SetFree]

I'm not interested in Lutheren philosophy.


Scripture, please.....

Please quote the verses that state, "The spiritually dead, unregerate, atheistic unbelieving enemy of God creates and invents faith in his own self and then gives it to himself."

Please don't try to put your words into my mouth, which means automatic loss in a debate.

So you only understand God's Word IF it gives a direct methodical step? That would have to mean you disregard His parables and allegories in His Word He used to teach with.

Thusly also, does your question above mean you don't believe 'any' are saved during Christ's future "thousand years" reign over the nations? (Rev.20) Do you even believe that Jesus has a "thousand years" reign with His elect AFTER HIS RETURN like Rev.20 teaches?

You reference somethings from John 17 and show that NOWHERE in that chapter does it state that the spiritually dead have "free will" to believe or not believe. Nope, that's not there - as you showed.

Cant' you handle what Lord Jesus said in the John 17 chapter? I made it very clear for you, so why are you BYPASSING that?

You want to me answer all your irrelevant questions, but fail to address mine. NO thanks for such a one-sided conversation. What I showed in the John 17 Scripture you still have NOT refuted.

 

[Josiah]

So you only understand God's Word IF it gives a direct methodical step?

@SetFree


I quoted Scripture that states my view. You offered not one Scripture that states "Each unregenerate, unbelieving person must CHOOSE of his own free will whether to believe or not."

Check this out: wolfmueller Can You Make a Decision for Christ - Google Search


Now, it could be you don't care what Scripture says... and if so, please make that clear.

Cant' you handle what Lord Jesus said in the John 17 chapter? I made it very clear for you, so why are you BYPASSING that?

You showed that nowhere in John 17 does it indicate that faith is the work of the dead unbelieving enemy of God, that faith is a "free choice" that each such dead person makes for himself, that "each must choose of his own free will whether to believe or not." You showed that John 17 does not support your position.

You might consider what Scripture DOES say (rather than modern Americanism)...

Ephesians 2:1
"You were dead in your trespasses and sins..."

1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit because they are folly to him and he cannot understand them."

Ephesians 1:3-7
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace."

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

Acts 13:48
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

John 15:16
"You did not choose me, but I chose you."

Romans 8:29-30
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

2 Timothy 1:9
"Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."

Matthew 24:22-24
"And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

Others....
Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20,22,27; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1, and many, many more.




.

 

[SetFree]

@SetFree


I quoted Scripture that states my view. You offered not one Scripture that states "Each unregenerate, unbelieving person must CHOOSE of his own free will whether to believe or not."

Check this out: wolfmueller Can You Make a Decision for Christ - Google Search


Now, it could be you don't care what Scripture says... and if so, please make that clear.







You showed that nowhere in John 17 does it indicate that faith is the work of the dead unbelieving enemy of God, that faith is a "free choice" that each such dead person makes for himself, that "each must choose of his own free will whether to believe or not." You showed that John 17 does not support your position.

You might consider what Scripture DOES say (rather than modern Americanism)...

Ephesians 2:1
"You were dead in your trespasses and sins..."

1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit because they are folly to him and he cannot understand them."

Ephesians 1:3-7
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace."

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

Acts 13:48
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

John 15:16
"You did not choose me, but I chose you."

Romans 8:29-30
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

2 Timothy 1:9
"Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."

Matthew 24:22-24
"And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

Others....
Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20,22,27; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1, and many, many more.




.

You bear FALSE WITNESS, simply because you make all those wild claims about me in the above, YET YOU STILL REFUSE TO ADDRESS THE JOHN 17 SCRIPTURE I POSTED.

Maybe that's why I have you on my IGNORE LIST.

 

[Lamb]

You bear FALSE WITNESS, simply because you make all those wild claims about me in the above, YET YOU STILL REFUSE TO ADDRESS THE JOHN 17 SCRIPTURE I POSTED.

Maybe that's why I have you on my IGNORE LIST.

He did address it in post 1,202. If he didn't address it in the way you want, ask something more specific concerning John 17.

 

[Josiah]

You bear FALSE WITNESS, simply because you make all those wild claims about me

@SetFree

I made one and only one "claim" about you: That you have not posted any Scripture that states what you do, that "each person must make a free choice to believe or not." And it's undeniably and obvious that you have not.

in the above, YET YOU STILL REFUSE TO ADDRESS THE JOHN 17 SCRIPTURE I POSTED.

Obviously, as everyone knows, I did address it. I noted that you yourself prove that NOTHING in John 17 states that the dead, unregenerate, unbelieving atheist "has free will" and "must choose for himself whether to believe or not."



Since there is no verse that states what you do, you might consider what Scripture DOES state:

Ephesians 2:1
"You were dead in your trespasses and sins..."

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"

1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit because they are folly to him and he cannot understand them."

Ephesians 1:3-7
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace."

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

John 15:16
"You did not choose me, but I chose you."

2 Timothy 1:9
"Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."

Others....
Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20,22,27; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1, and many, many more.



Here are the verses that state what you do: "Each dead unbeliever has free will and must choose for himself whether to believe or not."

Crickets (as you prove)




.

 

[Josiah]

Here are just some of the Scriptures that verbatim, flat-out, literally STATE that Jesus died for all. for everyone, for the whole world:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.

There are several more.


Here are the Scriptures that state, "No, Jesus did not die for all but rather ONLY for ______________."


Crickets.



.

 

[Albion]

Putting it in a crude way, is there agreement then that when the "elect" are referred to in Scripture it's a reference to God's kind of people (incorporating also the concept of Faith) and NOT to people supposedly chosen from before their births to be saved "regardless?"

 

[SetFree]

He did address it in post 1,202. If he didn't address it in the way you want, ask something more specific concerning John 17.

Umm... you're trying to tell me his following remark is an address of the John 17 Scriptures I quoted...

Josiah said in post 1202:
"You reference somethings from John 17 and show that NOWHERE in that chapter does it state that the spiritually dead have "free will" to believe or not believe. Nope, that's not there - as you showed."

I referenced A LOT from John 17, which Josiah did not address, but just gave the above bypassing remark about John 17.

I didn't know God's Word has to use Josiah's words in order to show about the group of 'chosen' Apostles as one group, and those who believe on Jesus through 'their word' as a second group...

John 17:6
6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word.
KJV


John 17:12
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name: those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
KJV

John 17:18
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
KJV

The subject of those above are about Christ's Apostles ONLY. To be a 'sent' one is what the word 'apostle' means.

John 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
KJV

Those of verse 20 is about the rest of Christ's Church who believed BY THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL, i.e., those who believe on Jesus "through their word".

I don't see Josiah addressing ANY of that above John 17 Scripture but only made remarks suggesting it did not FIT his own theories in his own words.


And then he directed a SLUR at me when he said...

Josiah said:
"Now, it could be you don't care what Scripture says... and if so, please make that clear."

So what kind of ignorant person would say something like that when I DIRECTLY QUOTED SCRIPTURE that he would not address? By saying things like he did, and directing it at me when it bears falseness, that is the act of bearing false witness.

 

[SetFree]

He did address it in post 1,202. If he didn't address it in the way you want, ask something more specific concerning John 17.

No need to ask, I gave Scripture proof of my point. It's not my responsibility to make others read the Scripture and comment on it, instead directing slurs my way.

My point was... that Jesus is praying about 2 groups, the first ones being His Apostles which The Father originally owned, and gave to Jesus. Now I don't know about you, but that means the Apostles already belonged to Jesus when He 'chose' them out of the world. But that is not how others in the Church came to believe, which is about a second group who believe by 'their word', i.e., their preaching (and witness).

Christ's ownership and choosing His Apostles whom He said He 'sent' into this world, reveals why He could go up to them and just say, "follow Me", and no belief on Him prior to that is shown in the Scriptures. In John 15 Jesus said that they did not choose Him, but that He chose them...

John 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.
KJV

That well establishes my point that His Apostles represent a separate group unto themselves per His John 17 prayer also.

And then the John 17:20 verse represents a SECOND GROUP which would believe on Him by "their word", meaning by their preaching and witness. Everyone today that have believed on Jesus Christ is represented by this 2nd group.

 

[Albion]

We EACH must make our OWN CHOICE to either believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, nor not.

ONLY... those of Christ's very elect, like His 'chosen' ones, have no choice in this world, for He already owns them, AS HE SAID.

Take a stab at coordinating your foregoing statements which seem to suggest free will for most of us, but hold that there is an elect predestined to salvation come what may, which you then identified as the Apostles themselves although not all of them did stay with Christ. And, in addition, your statement quoted just above maintains that it's not only the Apostles who are this "elect."

 

[SetFree]

Take a stab at coordinating your foregoing statements which seem to suggest free will for most of us, but hold that there is an elect predestined to salvation come what may, which you then identified as the Apostles themselves although not all of them did stay with Christ. And, in addition, your statement quoted just above maintains that it's not only the Apostles who are this "elect."

You wouldn't be able to understand how that is.

And the proof is that you'd first have to recognize that there's 2 different groups in Christ's Church, those which were 'chosen' before the foundation of the world and whose names are 'already' written in the book of life, like His 'chosen' 'sent' ones, i.e., His Apostles, including His apostles in the latter days (Rev.13:4-8). Their names are already written because He already owns those and they cannot be deceived. But those who come to believe on Jesus through 'their word' represents a 2nd group which Jesus did not 'send'. And those of that 2nd group for this reason CAN be deceived and fall away. But Christ's 'chosen' sent' ones CANNOT fall away, ever.

So it's like Jesus said, many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

As for Judas Iscariot, Jesus stated that only Judas ("son of peridition") was lost IN ORDER TO FULFILL THE SCRIPTURES, meaning the Old Testament prophecy that one in His inner circle would betray Him. Didn't you read what He said about that in John 17...

John 17:12
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name: those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
KJV

When considering when Christ's chosen believed, we are faced with a dilemma because there is no written Scripture to show just 'when' His chosen sent ones first believed. We know the Apostles believed on The Father because of their culture from being of Israel. And they had heard that Messiah would come also. But when Jesus emphatically said they did not... choose Him, but that He... chose them, that stops all speculation about their having believed on Him during this present world.

Many Churches today are busy teaching that brethren who are 'called' only are the ones Paul was pointing to about having been predestinated before the foundation of the world. That is only... IF... they remain in the Faith waiting on Jesus to come and do not fall away in the last days. The called only can... be deceived, those 'chosen' cannot. And for the end, i.e., the coming great tribulation, it won't be the deceived that the devil will be coming after. It will be Christ's chosen elect that will not and cannot be deceived. This is why Jesus showed at the end one's enemies will be those of one's own household, because those brethren are likely to be deceived by that coming pseudo-Christ.

And it is for this reason that I spend a lot of time warning brethren about the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem at the very end of this world to play God, and deceive the whole world, except those whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. This is why I don't dwell on the many useless doctrines of men which the hirelings in Christ Church rely upon because Jesus did not even call those which treat preaching as a business.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ didnt die for the unredeemed world, but for the world of the redeemed. There is a world of people whom Christ redeemed by His Blood right here Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Now thats the world Christ died for the sins of, the redeemed.

Those who never are redeemed unto God by His Blood, Christ didn't die for them.

 

[Josiah]

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

@brightfame52


Again, you prove that Scripture NOWHERE states what you do.

NOT ONE VERSE that states, "We EACH must make our OWN CHOICE to either believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, nor not."

NOT ONE VERSE that states, "Jesus did not die for all people but ONLY for some few."

Nothing in Scripture. Noting from any Church Father or Council. Nothing.



You might want to consider what the Bible states and Christians have believed, instead of your (very modern American) opinion.

Here are just some of the Scriptures that verbatim, flat-out, literally STATE that Jesus died for all. for everyone, for the whole world:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.

There are several more.


Here are the Scriptures that state, "No, Jesus did not die for all but rather ONLY for ______________."


Crickets.


Here are some of the Scriptures that state that faith is the gift of God (not something self gives self)

Ephesians 2:1
"You were dead in your trespasses and sins..."

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"

1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit because they are folly to him and he cannot understand them."

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

John 15:16
"You did not choose me, but I chose you."

2 Timothy 1:9
"Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."

Others....
Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20,22,27; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1, and many, many more.



Here are the Scriptures that state, "We each must make our own free choice as to whether to believe in Christ or not."

Crickets.



.

 

[Albion]

You wouldn't be able to understand how that is.

Actually, no one would be able to understand how that is...because your claims contradict each other.

And the proof is that you'd first have to recognize that there's 2 different groups in Christ's Church, those which were 'chosen' before the foundation of the world and whose names are 'already' written in the book of life, like His 'chosen' 'sent' ones, i.e., His Apostles, including His apostles in the latter days (Rev.13:4-8). Their names are already written because He already owns those and they cannot be deceived. But those who come to believe on Jesus through 'their word' represents a 2nd group which Jesus did not 'send'.

a lot of words in that sentence, but there's no "proof' of your personal theory about an Elect. All the reply is doing is reiterating your personal interpretation of unrelated verses.

Many Churches today are busy teaching that brethren who are 'called' only are the ones Paul was pointing to about having been predestinated before the foundation of the world. That is only... IF... they remain in the Faith waiting on Jesus to come and do not fall away in the last days.

Could you please identify any churches which actually DO teach this strange interpretation in which there are God's predestined 'elect' but they aren't actually predestined to salvation unless they perform ? That would of course mean that they are NOT predestined?

I noted before that you seem to have generated your own idea about what "justification" means, and it now looks as though we should add "predestination" the list.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ didnt die for everyone in the world because everyone He died for were by His death reconciled to God which all are not. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And thus reconciled, they shall be saved [converted] by His Life !

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus died for the sins of many, not all mankind. Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And that many whom He shed His Blood for, have remission/forgiveness of sins.

 

[Lamb]

Jesus died for the sins of many, not all mankind. Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And that many whom He shed His Blood for, have remission/forgiveness of sins.

That verse pertains to Holy Communion, where not ALL mankind will partake. It doesn't mean that Jesus did not die for all. Let's see the first part of that:
Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

You see, this is about the believers taking Holy Communion.

 

[Josiah]

Jesus died for the sins of many, not all mankind. Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

@brightfame52 Correct. NOTHING about "Jesus did not die for all (as the Bible states) but ONLY for some." "Many" does not contradict "all" but "ONLY some unknown few" would.

You keep proving you have NOTHING in Scripture that states what you do. While you just ignore what Scripture specifically, flat-out, repeatedly, verbatim states. Think about that.



Here are just some of the Scriptures that verbatim, flat-out, literally STATE that Jesus died for all. for everyone, for the whole world:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.

There are several more.


Here are the Scriptures that state, "No, Jesus did not die for all but rather ONLY for ______________."


Crickets.




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