The Doctrine of Limited Atonement Now in a Debate Approved Area.

[1689Dave]

It does not state that they are "lost" because Jesus did not die for them but only for _____________.

Your horrible, disgusting invention is stated NOWHERE in Scripture as you persistently prove.



I sense you could care less what God has to say about this, but here it is anyway:


Here are just a few of the verses that state Jesus died "For all" "for everyone" "for the whole world."


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.



Here are the verses that state Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for __________:

Cricklets....




.

Card sharks do the same. They stack the deck.

 

[Albion]

Card sharks do the same. They stack the deck.

''The same'' as God does when He reveals a truth to mankind, you mean.

Yours is a disturbing analogy, I have to say.

 

[1689Dave]

''The same'' as God does when He reveals a truth to mankind, you mean.

Yours is a disturbing analogy, I have to say.

People flee from the truth.

 

[Albion]

People flee from the truth.

But even if that is correct to say, it doesn't mean that whatever nonsense you choose to post IS the truth.

 

[1689Dave]

But even if that be true, it doesn't mean that whatever nonsense you choose to post IS the truth.

If you cannot grasp what I say, maybe more study is necessary.

 

[Albion]

If you cannot grasp what I say, maybe more study is necessary.

Well, there was a time when we thought you were just inarticulate (that would be odd for a self-proclaimed expert in Bible translations and the original languages, wouldn't it? LOL) but since that time we've learned that while that may be true to some degree, you are also adept at changing what you had claimed after it's been refuted.

That happened in this very thread, by the way. First, you wrote that "John 10 shows that Jesus did not die for the Pharisees in his audience and that is why they did not believe."

When that claim was soundly refuted, you pretended that what you had actually argued was something different, i.e. that God has an elect. This completely omitted your claim that this is why the Pharisees--in your opinion--did not believe. Of course, the verse itself tells us that the reason the Pharisees didn't believe was because they didn't understand what they were being told there, not because they weren't part of the elect.

 

[1689Dave]

Well, there was a time when we thought you were just inarticulate (that would be odd for a self-proclaimed expert in Bible translations and the original languages, wouldn't it? LOL) but since that time we've learned that while that may be true to some degree, you are also adept at changing what you had claimed after it's been refuted.

That happened in this very thread, by the way. First, you wrote that "John 10 shows that Jesus did not die for the Pharisees in his audience and that is why they did not believe."

When that claim was soundly refuted, you pretended that what you had actually argued was something different, i.e. that God has an elect. This completely omitted your claim that this is why the Pharisees--in your opinion--did not believe. Of course, the verse itself tells us that the reason the Pharisees didn't believe was because they didn't understand what they were being told there, not because they weren't part of the elect.

The point is Jesus limited his death to the sheep. Forever. Prove he said he died for the goats, the only other contrasted group.

 

[Albion]

The point is Jesus limited his death to the sheep. Forever. Prove he said he died for the goats, the only other contrasted group.

Do you remember when I pointed out that whenever your claim has been shown to be in error, you change your claim, sometimes ever so slightly, in order to sidestep the mistake you made but don't want to admit to?

 

[1689Dave]

Do you remember when I pointed out that when your claim has been shown to be in error, you change your claim, sometimes ever so slightly, in order to sidestep the mistake you made but don't want to admit to?

I don't remember. Maybe you didn't grasp what I said.

 

[Albion]

I don't remember.

How convenient. You quoted it only two posts prior to your comment here about not remembering it.

 

[1689Dave]

How convenient. You quoted it only three posts prior to your comment here about not remembering it.

I can't recall contradicting myself. Can you copy and paste it?

 

[Josiah]

The point is Jesus limited his death to the sheep.

A point you've repeatedly proven God never said. NOWHERE in Scripture is your horrible invention ever stated. You know that. You've proven that.





Here are just some of the verses that state Jesus died "For all" "for everyone" "the whole world."


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Here are the verses that state Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for some few...

Cricklets....




.

 

[1689Dave]

A point you've repeatedly proven God never said. NOWHERE in Scripture is your horrible invention ever stated. You know that. You've proven that.





Here are just some of the verses that state Jesus died "For all" "for everyone" "the whole world."


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Here are the verses that state Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for some few...

Cricklets....




.

Again, stacking the deck. Ignoring that Christ died for his sheep only. And not the goats you claim he did.

 

[Josiah]

Christ died for his sheep only.

Just quote the verse that states that Jesus died ONLY for his sheep.
You can't.
Because nowhere does God state what you do.
You know that.
We all know that.


Here's what God says (not that you seem to give a rip)...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


As you yourself have repeatedly prove, here are the verses that state all those Scriptures are wrong, actually Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for ____________...



Cricklets....



.

 

[1689Dave]

Just quote the verse that states that Jesus died ONLY for his sheep.
You can't.
Because nowhere does God state what you do.
You know that.
We all know that.


Here's what God says (not that you seem to give a rip)...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


As you yourself have repeatedly prove, here are the verses that state all those Scriptures are wrong, actually Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for ____________...



Cricklets....



.

Jesus said so in John 10. Prove he died for the goats using his words in the same passage. Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Josiah]

Jesus said so in John 10.

As you yourself have PROVEN (several times) Jesus never said that He died ONLY for ______________.

Your whole horrible invention is not stated anywhere in Scripture. IF you had a verse that stated, "Jesus died ONLY for _____________" you would have presented that in the nearly 2000 posts you've made. But you haven't. Because nowhere did Jesus state that. Nowhere does the Bible state that. You know that. We all know that.


Here's what God says (not that you seem to give a rip)...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


As you yourself have repeatedly proven, here are the verses that state all those Scriptures are wrong, actually Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for ____________

Cricklets....



.

 

[1689Dave]

As you yourself have PROVEN (several times) Jesus never said that He died ONLY for ______________.

Your whole horrible invention is not stated anywhere in Scripture. IF you had a verse that stated, "Jesus died ONLY for _____________" you would have presented that in the nearly 2000 posts you've made. But you haven't. Because nowhere did Jesus state that. Nowhere does the Bible state that. You know that. We all know that.


Here's what God says (not that you seem to give a rip)...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


As you yourself have repeatedly proven, here are the verses that state all those Scriptures are wrong, actually Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for ____________

Cricklets....



.

At the judgment, two groups stand before God. The sheep Jesus died for. And the goats you say he died for, putting words into Jesus' mouth. God saves the sheep. He sends the goats, you say he died for, to hell. Who are you to rewrite scripture?

“And before him shall be gathered all nations [the world ]: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:” Matthew 25:32–34 (KJV 1900)

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, [the goats you say he died for] Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41 (KJV 1900)

 

[Lamb]

At the judgment, two groups stand before God. The sheep Jesus died for. And the goats you say he died for, putting words into Jesus' mouth. God saves the sheep. He sends the goats, you say he died for, to hell. Who are you to rewrite scripture?

“And before him shall be gathered all nations [the world ]: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:” Matthew 25:32–34 (KJV 1900)

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, [the goats you say he died for] Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41 (KJV 1900)

The sheep have faith...the goats do not. The goats are judged according to their works, because they lack faith, their works are not acceptable to God. They reject Him and damn themselves.

 

[1689Dave]

The sheep have faith...the goats do not. The goats are judged according to their works, because they lack faith, their works are not acceptable to God. They reject Him and damn themselves.

Faith is a gift God gives to the elect. And withholds from the reprobate.