Jesus died for the sins of the world

[Josiah]

Well, what is it if not Pelagianism?

AGAIN, as you know, as everyone knows, Pelagianism states that justification (narrow) requires that WE do things, things WE can do on our own. Now, as you know, as everyone knows, Universal Atonement is the echo of what so many Scriptures so clearly, obviously, boldly state: Jesus died for all. Now, read those words again: JESUS DIED FOR ALL. Now, please quote the words there that state, YOU MUST DO. Because I don't see those words. The words I see are JESUS DIED FOR ALL.


Here's the verses that teach that Jesus died for all:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Here are the verses that state that Jesus did not die for all but only for some unknowable few:

crickets




.

 

[Albion]

Absolutely absurd....

Pelagianism is that we essentially must earn our salvation by what WE DO, it rests on justification involving OUR works.

Exactly. And this means that if everyone has a shot at achieving salvation through his own efforts, the atonement for sin that was achieved on the Cross cannot also exclude most of the people.

 

[1689Dave]

AGAIN, as you know, as everyone knows, Pelagianism states that justification (narrow) requires that WE do things, things WE can do on our own. Now, as you know, as everyone knows, Universal Atonement is the echo of what so many Scriptures so clearly, obviously, boldly state: Jesus died for all. Now, read those words again: JESUS DIED FOR ALL. Now, please quote the words there that state, YOU MUST DO. Because I don't see those words. The words I see are JESUS DIED FOR ALL.


Here's the verses that teach that Jesus died for all:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Here are the verses that state that Jesus did not die for all but only for some unknowable few:

crickets




.

You teach salvation by works.

 

[1689Dave]

Exactly. And this means that if everyone has a shot at achieving salvation through his own efforts, the atonement for sin that was achieved on the Cross cannot also exclude most of the people.

= salvation by works = not Christianity but Pelagianism.

 

[Lamb]

You teach salvation by works.

He absolutely does NOT teach works. Lutheranism teaches that God saves 100%! Man does nothing, contributes nothing, decides nothing for salvation.

 

[1689Dave]

He absolutely does NOT teach works. Lutheranism teaches that God saves 100%! Man does nothing, contributes nothing, decides nothing for salvation.

What if you do nothing?

 

[Lamb]

What if you do nothing?

Explain what you're asking please?

 

[1689Dave]

Explain what you're asking please?

How are you not like the lost unless you react? What if you don't react?

 

[Lamb]

How are you not like the lost unless you react? What if you don't react?

It's not about ME. It's about God doing what He does, He saves. If I remain in my disbelief then it's my fault. If I receive faith and remain there, it's 100% God's doing. Nothing from me.

 

[1689Dave]

It's not about ME. It's about God doing what He does, He saves. If I remain in my disbelief then it's my fault. If I receive faith and remain there, it's 100% God's doing. Nothing from me.

So you are your own savior?

 

[Lamb]

So you are your own savior?

No. Nothing of the sort. God saves me alone. I do nothing to contribute. HE gives faith. I can't give that to myself.

 

[1689Dave]

No. Nothing of the sort. God saves me alone. I do nothing to contribute. HE gives faith. I can't give that to myself.

So why doesn't he do this for everyone?

 

[Lamb]

So why doesn't he do this for everyone?

That's something God has not told us, why some and why not others. We do not know the answer from scripture so we don't even guess because that would be adding to scripture, which is not allowed.

 

[1689Dave]

That's something God has not told us, why some and why not others. We do not know the answer from scripture so we don't even guess because that would be adding to scripture, which is not allowed.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can have faith. So God saved you when you were lost and could not find your way. Why would he waste Christ's blood on those who reject him?

 

[Lamb]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can have faith. So God saved you when you were lost and could not find your way. Why would he waste Christ's blood on those who reject him?

No, faith is a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God”

 

[Lamb]

Why would he waste Christ's blood on those who reject him?

YOU claim it's wasted blood. God is a loving God

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son....

 

[1689Dave]

No, faith is a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God”

Yes, as a fruit of the Holy Spirit = saved.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

“And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” 2 Thessalonians 3:2 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

YOU claim it's wasted blood. God is a loving God

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son....

God hates sinners. That's why he glorifies himself by sending them to hell's justice.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, as a fruit of the Holy Spirit = saved.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

“And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” 2 Thessalonians 3:2 (KJV 1900)

The fruit of the spirit comes after we have received faith. It's a work within us of the Holy Spirit.

I agree that not all men have faith. Which is why they damn themselves.

 

[1689Dave]

The fruit of the spirit comes after we have received faith. It's a work within us of the Holy Spirit.

I agree that not all men have faith. Which is why they damn themselves.

So the tree comes after the apple?