Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Right they can't speak of themselves, because there are people who have no sin, for example those who are cleansed from all unrighteousness. I mean the same John tells you that in the very next verse doesn't he? You can't make a doctrine out of only one verse.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So, assuming you believe Scripture, you would believe He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, not just some, you would know that these people who are cleansed have no sin in them, since they were cleansed from all unrighteousness, not just some.

And none of their sins shall be mentioned unto them, that is Ezekiel 33:16. Which means they are both righteous and without sin. John was merely speaking to the ungodly, before they confess, not to the righteous after they were cleansed from all sin. In context John says that if the ungodly say they have no sin [to cleanse] they deceive themselves, for all have sinned [in the past].

Because the same John will also tell you:

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

So, we see that according to John, sin is only found in those who have not seen Him, neither known Him, not in those who abide in Him. And also John testifies of the existence of the righteous in verse 7.

And this is from John only, we find both the righteous and the sinless, they are the same, cleansed from all unrighteousness. Because you will find them also in the Psalm 119:3 which you haven't commented on, the Words of Jesus who testify of the existence of the righteous which is more than enough to prove they exist, saying they don't is to speak against Christ.

And a reminder that God will not justify the ungodly because He cannot lie. He will justify the righteous, because the righteous is righteous indeed.

Ah, so you're one of those who believe they are doing no wrong in the Lord's eyes from day to day? Well, you're wrong.

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

.
 
Last edited:

DanielL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2022
Messages
116
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Ah, so you're one of those who believe they are doing no wrong in the Lord's eyes from day to day? Well, you're wrong.

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Except i didn't say anything about myself, all i did was quote Scripture, which you say is wrong. You just don't want to know, because the very next verse says they are cleansed from all unrighteousness, leaving them without sin as a consequence. So, i understand since Scripture refutes you, all you can really do now is attack me instead, and saying "you're wrong" doesn't really prove or disprove anything, it just shows your lack of options..
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Except i didn't say anything about myself, all i did was quote Scripture, which you say is wrong. You just don't want to know, because the very next verse says they are cleansed from all unrighteousness, leaving them without sin as a consequence. So, i understand since Scripture refutes you, all you can really do now is attack me instead, and saying "you're wrong" doesn't really prove or disprove anything, it just shows your lack of options..
I didn't attack you, just your theology.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Except i didn't say anything about myself, all i did was quote Scripture, which you say is wrong. You just don't want to know, because the very next verse says they are cleansed from all unrighteousness, leaving them without sin as a consequence. So, i understand since Scripture refutes you, all you can really do now is attack me instead, and saying "you're wrong" doesn't really prove or disprove anything, it just shows your lack of options..

No, you quoted Scripture, (Rom. 4:5), and you said it is wrong. See your posts#(13) and (15).

So, is the book of (Romans) the Word of God or not?

Actually, Scripture refutes you. (Rom. 4:5). Which is why you want to ignore and change it.

You're the one without options. Else you would respond to my questions.

Lees
 

DanielL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2022
Messages
116
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I didn't attack you, just your theology.
Anyways, He will still not justify the ungodly. And no one has answerd yet, who is it that justifies the ungodly?


Ps: im not sinless perfectionism guy, so at best you attacked a strawman
 
Last edited:

DanielL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2022
Messages
116
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
@Lamb

My great apologies.... I deleted the post.



.
So, now it's ok? Since he was lying about me, that makes it ok? What did James say about respect of persons?
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Anyways, He will still not justify the ungodly.

Why would He need to justify the godly?

"Those who are not sick have no need for a doctor." I read that somewhere.



.

 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
No, the Word of God is Jesus Christ

The Word of God in Person is Jesus Christ. The written Word of God is the Bible.

As I said before, it is you calling God a liar.

Glad you admit that you do not see that Romans and the Bible are the Word of God.

But, this begs the question. You claim God cannot lie and you post some Scripture to prove it. How is it you see those Scriptures as the Word of God but not the book of Romans?

You see, you contradict yourself.

Lees
 

DanielL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2022
Messages
116
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Exodus 23:7 [...] I will not justify the wicked.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,760
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
No, the Word of God is Jesus Christ
So, is the book of (Romans) the Word of God or not?
Actually, both are referred to in Scripture as the "word." And both are referred to by the term
"Word of God" or "word of God." Compare 1 Thessalonians 2:13 with Revelation 19:13, for example.
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Exodus 23:7 [...] I will not justify the wicked.

So, is the book of (Exodus) the Word of God?

Why isn't the book of (Romans) the Word of God?

And, (Ex. 23:7) has nothing to do with justification of man in God's plan of salvation. (Ex. 23:7) is speaking only to those who are breaking the laws that God is laying down. Same is true in it's identification with the innocent and righteous. It is not speaking of imputed righteousness. It is speaking of those who are obeying the law.

The justification that involves the imputed righteousness of Christ is what saves. Man's obedience to a law, makes him righteous before men as far as man goes. But it contributes nothing to his eternal salvation.

In (Rom 4:5) and (5:6) Paul is addressing the imputed righteousness of Christ to man. Christ justifies the ungodly. Christ died for the ungodly.

You had better get that straight, because that is the only kind that God justifies. The ungodly. That is the only kind that God declares righteous. The ungodly.

Lees
 
Last edited:

Lanman87

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
732
Age
55
Location
Bible Belt
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
You had better get that straight, because that is the only kind that God justifies. The ungodly. That is the only kind that God declares righteous. The ungodly.

Our friend DanielL has his own personal theology based on his own personal beliefs about who God should be in his own eyes. That is why he refuses to recognized the Scriptures that all of God's people have recognized and refuses to submit to the clear teachings of those same scriptures.

It is one thing to discuss what Scripture means and another to dismiss books of the Bible which have been recognized by all Christians as the
"God Breathed" Scripture. If someone refuses to acknowledge what Scripture is then they are certainly going to not follow Historic Christianity.

Daniel has freedom of religion and can believe whatever he wants. He can even try and convince the rest of us that his belief is the correct belief system. However, it is very much a futile attempt for anyone who has a strong understanding of scripture and historic Christian belief (which most of us on the board seem to have).

I really don't understand why he is on this board, except maybe to troll us and try to get us into a pointless arguement.
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Our friend DanielL has his own personal theology based on his own personal beliefs about who God should be in his own eyes. That is why he refuses to recognized the Scriptures that all of God's people have recognized and refuses to submit to the clear teachings of those same scriptures.

It is one thing to discuss what Scripture means and another to dismiss books of the Bible which have been recognized by all Christians as the
"God Breathed" Scripture. If someone refuses to acknowledge what Scripture is then they are certainly going to not follow Historic Christianity.

Daniel has freedom of religion and can believe whatever he wants. He can even try and convince the rest of us that his belief is the correct belief system. However, it is very much a futile attempt for anyone who has a strong understanding of scripture and historic Christian belief (which most of us on the board seem to have).

I really don't understand why he is on this board, except maybe to troll us and try to get us into a pointless arguement.

I agree. His is a futile attempt.

Forums can be strange. I quit worrying whether one was a troll or whether one was another member going by a different name to try and incite discussion. I figure no matter, what ever they are saying needs challanging.

Lees
 

Fritz Kobus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
961
Location
Too Close to Detroit MI
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Exodus 23:7 [...] I will not justify the wicked.
Correct because the wicked are unrepentant.

The ungodly who are justified are those who repent and receive God's grace by faith. Then they turn to mend their ways. The wicked have no desire to mend their ways, but to continue on in wickedness.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,149
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
In rom 4:5 Paul wants us to believe in someone who "justifies the ungodly", i was just wondering who that is, exactly?
The Answer I believe is God. God justifieth the ungodly. It is God that Justifieth Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Jesus is God and He Justifieth the ungodly by baring their sins Isa 53:11

11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom