Lukewarmness

[MennoSota]

It doesn't matter, Menno...

The confrontation did not end with her conversion...

It did not place her closer to God...

All it did was condemn her...

Show me th God-connection that results from such encounters that slander the person encountered...

No matter if the slander is true or if it is false...

If you cannot see God in the person you are addressing...
And if you cannot address that person accordingly...
Your confrontational assaults will fail to convert...

Look - They need you alongside them helping them see what they are missing seeing...
They need your love for them in the face of their afflictions...
They need your prayers and prophetic insight...

This is not billiards...
These are persons with issues...
We all are...

Winning your argument and condemning your opponent only hardens your opponent...
You need to take their side, walking in their steps with them a ways...
And from there, you just might find something you can say...
That might prove helpful rather than harmful...

And you might not...

The RCC is notoriously and self-admittedly weak in catechesis of its children...
Children become adults...
So how good are the protestants doing with their kids???
Gobs better you think?

Should we get a camera and a microphone and make Protestants look bad?
Think it will do anyone any good?
Too much yuck...


Arsenios

Nor did many of Paul and Peter's confrontations end in conversion. That is because Peter and Paul never converted anyone through their preaching. Those whom God appoints will believe. The rest will walk away unconverted, or they may rise up to kill God's ambassador (whom you call a devil).

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

 

[Arsenios]

You would be so surprised my friend to learn that he converts many atheist to Christianity, check out his channel Living Waters.

I have seen him convert atheists some years back...

Perhaps that is the niche suited to his confrontational style...

Doing what he does to people of faith will mostly fail...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Nor did many of Paul and Peter's confrontations end in conversion.

Christ failed with most of the Jews...

And you are right, God does the conversions...

Yet Paul and Peter and Christ worked by showing the Faith in Works of Power...

They did not approach people by hurling accusations at them...

THAT is what Saul did prior to his conversion, and he not only accused them, but he seized them, imprisoned them, and had them killed...

Christian martyrs are not accused, seized, imprisoned and killed by Christians who disagree with their theology...

Accusation is not a good way to convert Christians to your theological beliefs...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Christ failed with most of the Jews...

And you are right, God does the conversions...

Yet Paul and Peter and Christ worked by showing the Faith in Works of Power...

They did not approach people by hurling accusations at them...

THAT is what Saul did prior to his conversion, and he not only accused them, but he seized them, imprisoned them, and had them killed...

Christian martyrs are not accused, seized, imprisoned and killed by Christians who disagree with their theology...

Accusation is not a good way to convert Christians to your theological beliefs...


Arsenios

Peter and Paul spoke truth, showing people that they had broken God's law and were lawbreakers who would one day stand before God and be judged. They spoke reconciliation to those who acknowledged their sin.
The woman in the video would not acknowledge she was a lawbreaking person. She imagined God would ignore her criminal activities because her non-criminal activities were more than her crimes.
I go into jails to share the gospel. In jail there are many who refuse to accept they have done anything wrong. They see themselves as victims of an oppressive system. The woman in the video did the same thing. She couldn't imagine herself as a lawbreaker...only as a victim if she were to be found guilty.

 

[Andrew]

I have seen him convert atheists some years back...

Perhaps that is the niche suited to his confrontational style...

Doing what he does to people of faith will mostly fail...


Arsenios

The Bible tells us to judge those within the church, how does this make some one an accuser (devil) of the brethren?
Even here we debate each other and im sure most of us want others to convert...
Her lack of knowledge (not even knowing the first commandment) is obvious, her fowl mouth tells me she hasn't been reborn, even she implies that she hasn't or doesn't even know what it means. The golden rule is taught in many religions, but in Christianity it's more distinct, we treat others as Christ has treated us and not of ourselves as the example but Christ as our example.
Arsenios, if she were asked to share her testimony in Church do you believe she would have anything to say other than "I was baptised and confirmed and I confess my sins so I am a good person"?

 

[Arsenios]

Peter and Paul spoke truth, showing people that they had broken God's law and were lawbreakers who would one day stand before God and be judged. They spoke reconciliation to those who acknowledged their sin.
The woman in the video would not acknowledge she was a lawbreaking person. She imagined God would ignore her criminal activities because her non-criminal activities were more than her crimes.
I go into jails to share the gospel. In jail there are many who refuse to accept they have done anything wrong. They see themselves as victims of an oppressive system. The woman in the video did the same thing. She couldn't imagine herself as a lawbreaker...only as a victim if she were to be found guilty.

Well, some of the Church Fathers have reported that many of those Christians who do not attain Paradise after their repose are very surprised - Thinking they belong in Paradise and finding themselves in anything but Paradise... I fear your champion may fall into this category, imagining himself to be like Christ chastising the Rulership of the Jews... The kinds of issues he is bandying about are not settled on the streets with strangers passing by who may or may not be theologically astute... Whether Catholic or other... All he is doing is hardening the hearts of people peaceably going about their business...

I may have to grit my teeth and watch the entire clip - I sure hope not...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The Bible tells us to judge those within the church,

The Church is the Communion of the faithful baptized into Christ...

Are you suggesting that these two are in the same Church and its Communion?

how does this make some one an accuser (devil) of the brethren?

Because he is bandying about going up to people he does not even know, and accusing them of being liars and adulterers in an effort to get them to come to his point of view...

Even here we debate each other and I'm sure most of us want others to convert...

I can speak only for myself, and my fervent desire is for each of us to know God more than we now do...

Her lack of knowledge (not even knowing the first commandment) is obvious,

Which should tell him to back off...

Her fowl mouth tells me she hasn't been reborn,

Then you are judging her carnally, and you will be judged the same...

even she implies that she hasn't or doesn't even know what it means.

Then go in peace, and do not accuse her with your Bible as a Billy Club to beat her into submission to your own views...

The golden rule is taught in many religions, but in Christianity it's more distinct,
we treat others as Christ has treated us and not of ourselves as the example
but Christ as our example.

OK - The Accuser would doubtless LOVE to be assailed by someone with a camera on a public sidewalk and accused of all manner of evils...

I know a person with a hundred knives in her bedroom - She sleeps with her windows open and hopes for an attack...

Should she go out and attack people because she wants someone to attack her?

The Golden Rule has presuppositions, you see...

Arsenios, if she were asked to share her testimony in Church
do you believe she would have anything to say other than
"I was baptised and confirmed and I confess my sins
so I am a good person"?

I have no idea and being meddlesome in another's affairs is not prescribed Biblically...

Sometimes you just need to back off and let your example be your witness...

By that standard, the intellectual Bible-bully is not headed to Paradise...

Be filled with care for what you do, my friend...
Because...
YOU may be the ONLY Gospel many will EVER read...


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

The Church is the Communion of the faithful baptized into Christ...

Are you suggesting that these two are in the same Church and its Communion?



Because he is bandying about going up to people he does not even know, and accusing them of being liars and adulterers in an effort to get them to come to his point of view...



I can speak only for myself, and my fervent desire is for each of us to know God more than we now do...



Which should tell him to back off...



Then you are judging her carnally, and you will be judged the same...



Then go in peace, and do not accuse her with your Bible as a Billy Club to beat her into submission to your own views...



OK - The Accuser would doubtless LOVE to be assailed by someone with a camera on a public sidewalk and accused of all manner of evils...

I know a person with a hundred knives in her bedroom - She sleeps with her windows open and hopes for an attack...

Should she go out and attack people because she wants someone to attack her?

The Golden Rule has presuppositions, you see...



I have no idea and being meddlesome in another's affairs is not prescribed Biblically...

Sometimes you just need to back off and let your example be your witness...

By that standard, the intellectual Bible-bully is not headed to Paradise...

Be filled with care for what you do, my friend...
Because...
YOU may be the ONLY Gospel many will EVER read...


Arsenios

I disagree with everything you said.
He is asking honest questions and she answers respectfully, she is clueless to the commandments, repentance and rebirth, he is trying to help her not condemn her... as for a Catholic who curses and uses blasphemous language I do judge her because as Christians we ought to do away with a fowl tongue...
If she is following Christ example and if she is a light for the world, what a horrible example she sets for others to see.

There is this girl on my facebook that curses like a sailer and in the next post ask for prayer request... You can't serve two masters, this Catholic lady in the video has no understanding of scripture other than what her priests tells her.
Would we follow Paul if he says to put away filthy language but every other word he a curse word or blasphemy against God? No we wouldn't! You are defending a lady who is boastful, slanderous, curses in the name of God, claims that good works ALONE will out weigh the bad and get her into heaven, does not recognize any of the scripture (including the first commandment) that he offers, yet she is in the communion and fellowship of the Church? Yes I have every God given right to judge her and declare anathema on her, her fruits are wicked yet you shame him for preaching to a "stranger", I believe we are to speak the gospel truth to our neighbors and strangers don't you?
This is one of my issues with the RCC, they get baptised as babies and confirmed and grow up never hearing the truth, they don't know about the rebirth, they are taught penance instead of repentance, they are taught to scoff at evangelicals or protestants and are never encouraged to read scripture for themselves, this lady is a perfect example of that.

 

[Arsenios]

I disagree with everything you said.
He is asking honest questions

You are a liar...

Do you have a problem with that?

You are a liar...

Because you answered the "honest question": "Have you ever told a lie?"

So you are a liar, and I do not like liars...

And neither do you...

And by my so-called phony "honest question", you are tricked into either denying you have ever lied, or you ARE a liar...

And IF you are a liar, nothing you can say even matters...

You are the liar here...

That is the problem with the false accusation built into the question...

So how are you going to answer it, you liar??

And who cares what a liar might say?

I call that the "yuck factor"...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

This is one of my issues with the RCC,
they get baptized as babies
and confirmed
and grow up
never hearing the truth,
they don't know about the rebirth,
they are taught penance instead of repentance,
they are taught to scoff at evangelicals or protestants
and are never encouraged to read scripture for themselves,
this lady is a perfect example of that.

Judgemental hypocrisy is what put me off of ALL western Christianity for my first 51 years of life...

Protestant Judgementalism of Catholics has helped no Catholics...

Catholic Judgementalism of Protestants has helped no Protestants...

Hypocrisy is rampant on all sides...

And we are admonished Biblically not to judge, but to forgive and to intercede in prayer for one another...

Blessed are the poor in Spirit...

I would rather be a be a beggar in Spirit than a self-righteous judger of my fellow strugglers in the Christian Faith...

Whatever stripe they might be wearing...

Or even those who are not Christians...

Mat 7:1&3
Judge not that ye be not judged...
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,
but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Pointing the finger at the other guy is not the mark of Christian humility...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

There is this girl on my facebook
that curses like a sailer
and in the next post
ask for prayer request... .

You had BETTER be praying for her!

Give me her first name and I will pray for her...

Heck, I will pray for her without her name!

I mean, why be a tight-wad with your prayers??


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

You are a liar...

Do you have a problem with that?

You are a liar...

Because you answered the "honest question": "Have you ever told a lie?"

So you are a liar, and I do not like liars...

And neither do you...

And by my so-called phony "honest question", you are tricked into either denying you have ever lied, or you ARE a liar...

And IF you are a liar, nothing you can say even matters...

You are the liar here...

That is the problem with the false accusation built into the question...

So how are you going to answer it, you liar??

And who cares what a liar might say?

I call that the "yuck factor"...


Arsenios

When a person says they are a good person they are a liar because only God is good, that's the scripture he wanted to point out to her, Hitler could have claimed to be a good person for "helping" his struggling people and painting pictures :/

 

[Arsenios]

When a person says they are a good person they are a liar because only God is good, that's the scripture he wanted to point out to her, Hitler could have claimed to be a good person for "helping" his struggling people and painting pictures :/

People who ARE good don't CLAIM good...

Blessed are the poor in Spirit...

Good is in poverty of Spirit...

Why do you continue to point your finger at this woman?

Would you like to just go downtown with me and start condemning all who are sinners that we meet?

"For in Thy Sight shall no man living be justified..."

You see, by the standards the street-preacher condemns her, he condemns himself...

You simply have to know that...

Judgmental hypocrites are self-condemned...

That is why I worry more for the preacher than for his victim...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

People who ARE good don't CLAIM good...

Blessed are the poor in Spirit...

Good is in poverty of Spirit...

Why do you continue to point your finger at this woman?

Would you like to just go downtown with me and start condemning all who are sinners that we meet?

"For in Thy Sight shall no man living be justified..."

You see, by the standards the street-preacher condemns her, he condemns himself...

You simply have to know that...

Judgmental hypocrites are self-condemned...

That is why I worry more for the preacher than for his victim...


Arsenios

You have self-condemned your self, Arsenios.

 

[Andrew]

People who ARE good don't CLAIM good...

Blessed are the poor in Spirit...

Good is in poverty of Spirit...

Why do you continue to point your finger at this woman?

Would you like to just go downtown with me and start condemning all who are sinners that we meet?

"For in Thy Sight shall no man living be justified..."

You see, by the standards the street-preacher condemns her, he condemns himself...

You simply have to know that...

Judgmental hypocrites are self-condemned...

That is why I worry more for the preacher than for his victim...


Arsenios

No he has his God given right to judge and try to rebuke her because she is part of the Church and she is created an idol that is drawing her away from the Truth and does not know her scripture

 

[Arsenios]

No he has his God given right to judge and try to rebuke her because she is part of the Church and she is created an idol that is drawing her away from the Truth and does not know her scripture

Being a moralistic rebuker of other's faults

generally is a cover for one's own lack of repentance...

Anthony Wiener was one such...

Loved condemning others for their faults...

While sexting pubescent teens...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

You have self-condemned your self, Arsenios.

Self denial is self-condemnation...

If anyone desires to follow Me...

Let him first deny himself...

Christianity 101: Denial of self...


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

Being a moralistic rebuker of other's faults

generally is a cover for one's own lack of repentance...

Anthony Wiener was one such...

Loved condemning others for their faults...

While sexting pubescent teens...


Arsenios

He's not attacking her imperfections he's signaling to her that she hasn't fully grasped the the importance of the new birth as she herself admits that she has only had one birth, don't you believe the new birth is vital for ones salvation Arsenios?

 

[Arsenios]

He's not attacking her imperfections
he's signaling to her that she hasn't fully grasped the the importance of the new birth
as she herself admits that she has only had one birth,
don't you believe the new birth is vital for ones salvation
Arsenios?

That is called being a moral busybody...
Gossip, not news...
Calling ashes gold...


It takes rebirth, which is a holy matter of a person encountering God, and turns it into an intrusive in your face street assault in the name of Christianity... And in the process turns something holy into an object of derision and disrespect - A virtual demonic hole-in-one... It turns a person walking in newness of spirit into an ANTIFA mob of one...

In the early church, Christians lived meek and quiet and holy lives, hidden in Christ, until called forth by accusation unto the witness of martyrdom, which they willingly endured in their fullness of Joy... There is a saying in the Middle East about towns having or not having a Christian presence: Christians? What a blessing! No Christians? What a deprivation! This meekness and humility and lowliness of soul transformed all the nations in Christ, and is literally saving the world to this day and hour... And here in the US of A, we have street evangelizers shoving cameras and microphones into people's faces on the street telling them they do not know God, and calling THAT yuck "Spreading the Good News of Christ"... Here in the US... Where a once Christian Nation is in Christian decline... And it is not helpful either to the woman or to her 'Christian' assailant...

I ran into a guy on a train one night - I was snoozing in the observation car on the floor, and had to listen to him all night holding court telling a group of 5 or 6 how great God is and all the things God has done for him - I awakened at daybreak and he was still talking, and they broke up and went to their cars... I arose and did my morning prayers and read the Bible, and he looked down the car and saw me doing so, and when I had finished, he came and greeted me... I felt sorry for him... And we sat down and talked... I said: "You are losing your faith, aren't you? And it has been ebbing away for some time now... Slipping away from you slowly, and you don't know why..." And his eyes opened wide in surprise, and he said: "How do you know that?" And I said: "Because I heard you talking when I went to sleep, and when I woke up, and throughout the night... You were trying to renew your waning faith by spreading faith to others and getting them excited about Christ and God... You have known His Joy, and as it slips away, you do not want life without it..." And he said, hanging his head: "You saw all that?" And I said: "Of course! I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and we disciple what to do when that happens, and it always happens - It is a well know part of one's walk in Christ for us... Any dumb dork-quacker can walk the Talk when God is doing all the work, and when one is swept along in gobs and tons of His Grace... So God lets His Grace slip slowly away so the one He loves can find his feet, and decide his walk, and attain the virtue, by practicing it, needed to walk Christ's Walk without the training wheels still on his spiritual toddler's bike..." It was now perhaps 5:30AM... "I had no special spiritual insight here - That is Christianity 101 for the Ancient Faith..." I spent the rest of our time together answering his questions as best I could, and he departed the train in Portland looking for an Orthodox Church...

So get out of people's faces with your microphones and cameras and self-righteous so-called Christian judgmental posturing and correction of others... Whatever that woman may or may not need in her journey into God, YOU do not HAVE it to GIVE... The Reformation is over, and it failed to reform Rome... Get out of people's faces with your self-righteous street confrontations recorded for posterity... You are alienating the US from Christianity... And the demonic forces are rejoicing in your delusional efforts...

Forgive me, my Brother...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

That is called being a moral busybody...
Gossip, not news...
Calling ashes gold...


It takes rebirth, which is a holy matter of a person encountering God, and turns it into an intrusive in your face street assault in the name of Christianity... And in the process turns something holy into an object of derision and disrespect - A virtual demonic hole-in-one... It turns a person walking in newness of spirit into an ANTIFA mob of one...

In the early church, Christians lived meek and quiet and holy lives, hidden in Christ, until called forth by accusation unto the witness of martyrdom, which they willingly endured in their fullness of Joy... There is a saying in the Middle East about towns having or not having a Christian presence: Christians? What a blessing! No Christians? What a deprivation! This meekness and humility and lowliness of soul transformed all the nations in Christ, and is literally saving the world to this day and hour... And here in the US of A, we have street evangelizers shoving cameras and microphones into people's faces on the street telling them they do not know God, and calling THAT yuck "Spreading the Good News of Christ"... Here in the US... Where a once Christian Nation is in Christian decline... And it is not helpful either to the woman or to her 'Christian' assailant...

I ran into a guy on a train one night - I was snoozing in the observation car on the floor, and had to listen to him all night holding court telling a group of 5 or 6 how great God is and all the things God has done for him - I awakened at daybreak and he was still talking, and they broke up and went to their cars... I arose and did my morning prayers and read the Bible, and he looked down the car and saw me doing so, and when I had finished, he came and greeted me... I felt sorry for him... And we sat down and talked... I said: "You are losing your faith, aren't you? And it has been ebbing away for some time now... Slipping away from you slowly, and you don't know why..." And his eyes opened wide in surprise, and he said: "How do you know that?" And I said: "Because I heard you talking when I went to sleep, and when I woke up, and throughout the night... You were trying to renew your waning faith by spreading faith to others and getting them excited about Christ and God... You have known His Joy, and as it slips away, you do not want life without it..." And he said, hanging his head: "You saw all that?" And I said: "Of course! I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and we disciple what to do when that happens, and it always happens - It is a well know part of one's walk in Christ for us... Any dumb dork-quacker can walk the Talk when God is doing all the work, and when one is swept along in gobs and tons of His Grace... So God lets His Grace slip slowly away so the one He loves can find his feet, and decide his walk, and attain the virtue, by practicing it, needed to walk Christ's Walk without the training wheels still on his spiritual toddler's bike..." It was now perhaps 5:30AM... "I had no special spiritual insight here - That is Christianity 101 for the Ancient Faith..." I spent the rest of our time together answering his questions as best I could, and he departed the train in Portland looking for an Orthodox Church...

So get out of people's faces with your microphones and cameras and self-righteous so-called Christian judgmental posturing and correction of others... Whatever that woman may or may not need in her journey into God, YOU do not HAVE it to GIVE... The Reformation is over, and it failed to reform Rome... Get out of people's faces with your self-righteous street confrontations recorded for posterity... You are alienating the US from Christianity... And the demonic forces are rejoicing in your delusional efforts...

Forgive me, my Brother...


Arsenios

Your judgment is interesting. It seems you would rather she die in her sins and in her ignorance.
This woman chose to dialogue with this evangelist. His questions were regarding her moral position before God as her judge. She felt her good works outweighed her bad works. She did not...and would not...consider herself to be a lawbreaking criminal who will face a Judge who is holy and just. She chose to ignore the judgment day so she could tell herself she was a good person. She would not listen nor accept the evangelists call to look upon her sin and repent.
Arsenios, you method of evangelism (if you even do evangelism) may not be confrontational. That's fine. I prefer a non-comfrontational friendship evangelism. This evangelist prefers to push the issue and attempt to have people face their sin head on. Some people respond to that approach. Others walk away in disgust.
If God is Sovereign and He directs the elect to respond to his grace by giving them faith and the capacity to repent, then all the elect will eventually come to faith. We humans do not have the capacity to thwart God's will and somehow keep a person out of the Kingdom by our bad evangelism. Nor do we have the capacity to masterfully convince someone to believe by some glorious evangelism technique. We are simply used as God wills and as we obey.
The woman in the video has no excuse. She may remain with a hard heart or God may draw her to faith by another means. In either case, it is God who wills a person to salvation, not us.