Lukewarmness

[Arsenios]

Jesus walked about the streets preaching and having debates with Jews whom he and they had shared the same faith.

Debates???

The God-hating Jews were hurling accusations at Him, remember?

Calling Him names...

Saying He had a demon...

They stalked Him...

Our street-evangelist is a random stalker...

But the Jews KNEW Who Jesus was...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

It is quite telling that you consider a man, talking in a park, a stalker.
When he said we are lawbreakers, was he lying? When he said that she was a lawbreaker, was he wrong? When he corrected her as she claimed to be good, was he wrong in expressing that all are sinners in need of a Savior?
The evangelist never stalked. He stood and she responded. She left. He didn't run after her.
Arsenios, perhaps it is you whom God is permitting to be kept away from grace due to the obstacle of works you have placed in front of you. Perhaps you are offended because your false gospel is exposed as the same false gospel the woman held. Perhaps your pride and hard heart cannot accept that only God can save you and you will never merit God's grace by your own attempt to be self-righteous. Perhaps your message is of the devil.

Back at ya!

You sound just like the Pharisees hurling their accusations at Christ...

But I ain't no Christ, so don't worry...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Well, there is much that is telling - Calling the hurling of accusations an act of love for one...

So back at ya!


Arsenios

Arsenios, you call truth "hurling of accusations." You call truth "unloving." Your bitterness and hatred of truth while demanding salvation through merited works is contrary to God's gospel of grace.

 

[MennoSota]

Back at ya!

You sound just like the Pharisees hurling their accusations at Christ...

But I ain't no Christ, so don't worry...


Arsenios

Nah. I live by grace. You are the Pharisee who attempts to merit your salvation by works.

 

[Andrew]

Debates???

The God-hating Jews were hurling accusations at Him, remember?

Calling Him names...

Saying He had a demon...

They stalked Him...

Our street-evangelist is a random stalker...

But the Jews KNEW Who Jesus was...


Arsenios

Jesus asked them questions that they hesitated to or refused to answer, like how informal debates usually go, like the ones we have here.
Paul would have spoken in the same manner of this man on mars hill. Sometimes people need to her the truth from outside their congregation, this man did nothing wrong he only spoke truth

 

[Lamb]

Staff Notice: Everyone is now aware that there is disagreements in beliefs on this site. There is no need to keep putting down their beliefs in each post. It doesn't help the conversation and it doesn't help our community grow.

 

[pinacled]

A plaguely scripted scenario.

 

[Arsenios]

Staff Notice: Everyone is now aware that there is disagreements in beliefs on this site. There is no need to keep putting down their beliefs in each post. It doesn't help the conversation and it doesn't help our community grow.

Thank-you, Lamm...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

A plaguely scripted scenario.

A veritable infestation, I say!


Arsenios - A germ on a worm!

 

[MennoSota]

Belief in works and merit based salvation is less than lukewarmness. It's cold, deadness.

 

[Andrew]

Belief in works and merit based salvation is less than lukewarmness. It's cold, deadness.

Do you believe Christian synergist can't be saved? My Grandmother was a strict Catholic, she never bragged our boasted but she did do her Catholic sacraments, I don't believe she ever considered them works, I don't see anywhere in the bible that says those who do believe works is necessary are anathema or anything just that it makes people boastful or do not understand Pauls message, but she did believe in grace and mercy and charity, I wouldn't call her no fool she was the most Holiest person I knew. What bother me about most Catholics is that they seem to do whatever they want as long as they confess their sins, my grandmother didn't do anything I and her confessions must have been over something really minute that probably wasn't even a sin lol

 

[MennoSota]

Do you believe Christian synergist can't be saved? My Grandmother was a strict Catholic, she never bragged our boasted but she did do her Catholic sacraments, I don't believe she ever considered them works, I don't see anywhere in the bible that says those who do believe works is necessary are anathema or anything just that it makes people boastful or do not understand Pauls message, but she did believe in grace and mercy and charity, I wouldn't call her no full she was the most Holiest person I knew. What bother me about most Catholics is that they seem to do whatever they want as long as they confess their sins, my grandmother didn't do anything I and her confessions must have been over something really minute that probably wasn't even a sin lol

Anyone relying on their good works to merit God's favor means they do not believe God saves by his grace.
People who are saved entirely by God's grace will most likely discipline themselves. The discipline is not to merit salvation, but to express obedience to the Master who has called them to work in His Kingdom.
There is a difference. I cannot speak to your grandmother's faith. If she saw herself as unsaved unless she merited God's favor, then she may have died in the deadness of her sins despite her pious life. If she recognized her life as only receiving God's favor because God chose to be gracious, despite her sins, then she would be saved by grace through faith.

 

[Andrew]

Anyone relying on their good works to merit God's favor means they do not believe God saves by his grace.
People who are saved entirely by God's grace will most likely discipline themselves. The discipline is not to merit salvation, but to express obedience to the Master who has called them to work in His Kingdom.
There is a difference. I cannot speak to your grandmother's faith. If she saw herself as unsaved unless she merited God's favor, then she may have died in the deadness of her sins despite her pious life. If she recognized her life as only receiving God's favor because God chose to be gracious, despite her sins, then she would be saved by grace through faith.

I believe she had the Holy Spirit 100%
I don't know what she believed about works but I know she loved the Lord and prayed daily. I think she viewed Catholic tradition as more of a culture and also a social environment, the elderly don't do much, they might play bingo to socialize, they also enjoy Church, she enjoyed seeing her friends, she was good friends with the priest and she was a regular and the most jolly lady I have known. Very social, she loved the sermons (and I've been, they teach charity and love towards neighbors from scripture), the songs aren't as wild and all over the place so she loved to sing psalms and pray in a group.
She prayed her rosary not because it would save her but because she loved the deep mediation of prayer, better than doing something sinful in your free time instead. She definitely found Grace from God, her Faith was strong, I am certain she never doubted her salvation, she is in paradise.

 

[atpollard]

Slander does not have to be false to be slander...

Actually, I think it does.


slan·der
/ˈslandər/
noun [LAW]
1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

verb
1. make false and damaging statements about (someone).

 

[atpollard]

She did not know how to defend her faith...
As created by God, humans are good...
As fallen in Adam, they are not...
That is the catholic teaching...
The whole of the Truth...
Not just one side or the other...

Arsenios

While I am not a particular fan of street corner evangelism (like that shown in the video) because I strongly doubt its effectiveness, there seems ample example from Scripture of the Apostolic Evangelists leading with the harsh “bad news” to bring into clarity the problem of sin, and then to offer the “good news” of forgiveness found in Jesus Christ. For example, the woman at the well ...

[Jhn 4:17-18 NASB] 17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."​

Jesus first brought her sin front and center before revealing ...

[Jhn 4:26 NASB] 26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am [He.]"​

Peter in Acts 2 is not afraid to lay blame for the death of the Messiah on the heads of his fellow Jews ...

[Act 2:22-24 NASB] 22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 23 this [Man,] delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put [Him] to death. 24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.​

And it was this reality that God used to break their hearts of stone ...

[Act 2:37 NASB] 37 Now when they heard [this,] they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"​

Which opened the door to Peter’s presentation of the Good News that led to the first of many great ingatherings.

So while it is not MY cup of tea, I can hardly fault those who follow Jesus’ and Peter’s example of first showing people the bad news so they are ready to hear the good news.

 

[Andrew]

While I am not a particular fan of street corner evangelism (like that shown in the video) because I strongly doubt its effectiveness, there seems ample example from Scripture of the Apostolic Evangelists leading with the harsh “bad news” to bring into clarity the problem of sin, and then to offer the “good news” of forgiveness found in Jesus Christ. For example, the woman at the well ...

[Jhn 4:17-18 NASB] 17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."​

Jesus first brought her sin front and center before revealing ...

[Jhn 4:26 NASB] 26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am [He.]"​

Peter in Acts 2 is not afraid to lay blame for the death of the Messiah on the heads of his fellow Jews ...

[Act 2:22-24 NASB] 22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 23 this [Man,] delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put [Him] to death. 24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.​

And it was this reality that God used to break their hearts of stone ...

[Act 2:37 NASB] 37 Now when they heard [this,] they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"​

Which opened the door to Peter’s presentation of the Good News that led to the first of many great ingatherings.

So while it is not MY cup of tea, I can hardly fault those who follow Jesus’ and Peter’s example of first showing people the bad news so they are ready to hear the good news.

They have to admit that sin is real and that they are a sinner, this preacher actually has a high success rate of converting people on the street, you should check him out

 

[MennoSota]

They have to admit that sin is real and that they are a sinner, this preacher actually a high success rate of converting people on the street, you should check him out

If you don't know you're a lawbreaking criminal, you will never think you're that bad.

 

[Andrew]

If you don't know you're a lawbreaking criminal, you will never think you're that bad.

I had an atheist friend for a while that would provoke me by saying "I don't believe in sin, and because I don't believe in sin I am sinless" :/

 

[MennoSota]

I had an atheist friend for a while that would provoke me by saying "I don't believe in sin, and because I don't believe in sin I am sinless" :/

Did he believe in the "rule of law" upon which the United States justice system is built?
When I am in conversation with non-believers and the issue of sin comes up, I will often ask them if they believe in the rule of law. It opens the door to seeing sin as a law breaking action that requires justice to be meted out.