Lukewarmness

[Andrew]

Is this what Catholicism preaches?

Street Preacher vs Passionate Catholic
https://youtu.be/bVMnwfYCmM8

 

[Arsenios]

Yuck...

A demonic accuser attacking a Luke warm Christian who does not know how to defend her faith...

This is not how the Christian Faith works...

I suppose the one engenders the other...

Perhaps one will benefit from the encounter...

Her more than him...

But I am not all that hopeful...


Arsenios

 

[Albion]

Is this what Catholicism preaches?

I don't know that we can draw too many conclusions from this exchange. He clearly was preaching from a reformed POV and she was reflecting a Roman Catholic perspective, but that doesn't exactly mean *this is what Catholicism teaches,* however.

 

[MennoSota]

Yuck...

A demonic accuser

Demonic?
What lie did he state?

attacking a Luke warm Christian

Certainly a self-proclaimed Roman Catholic. What does the Bible say regarding who God chooses to adopt as his child?

who does not know how to defend her faith...

Did she not defend her belief that humans are, by nature, good?

This is not how the Christian Faith works...

How did the Apostles preach their faith in the marketplace while they traveled through Asia Minor, Greece and Rome? What message did Peter have on Pentacost for those who listened?

Arsenios, you have made four claims that are merely your feelings.

 

[Arsenios]

Demonic?
What lie did he state?


Certainly a self-proclaimed Roman Catholic. What does the Bible say regarding who God chooses to adopt as his child?


Did she not defend her belief that humans are, by nature, good?


How did the Apostles preach their faith in the marketplace while they traveled through Asia Minor, Greece and Rome? What message did Peter have on Pentacost for those who listened?

Arsenios, you have made four claims that are merely your feelings.

diabolos - the devil - means an accuser...

Slander does not have to be false to be slander...

Slander that is true is still evil...

Slander is not rebuke...

Slander is condemnation...

Rebuke is exhortation...

Look -

He asked her: "Have you ever told a lie?"

Answer: "No - Well maybe when I was young I might have..."

"Have you ever stolen anything?"

"Absolutely not - Well, maybe once or twice long ago..."

"Then you ARE a THIEF and a LIAR!" ["GOTCHA you scum!"]

You can as easily, and mores, ask: "Have you EVER told the truth???"

"Well, I try to all the time - Sometimes I fail..."

"But you HAVE told the truth???"

"Most of the time..."

"Then you are a truth teller and beloved of God!!" ["Bless you my sister!"]

Compare the two lines -

One is slanderous and condemns...

The other is not and does not...

Both are true...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Did she not defend her belief that humans are, by nature, good?

She did not know how to defend her faith...

As created by God, humans are good...

As fallen in Adam, they are not...

That is the catholic teaching...

The whole of the Truth...

Not just one side or the other...


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

She did not know how to defend her faith...

As created by God, humans are good...

As fallen in Adam, they are not...

That is the catholic teaching...

The whole of the Truth...

Not just one side or the other...


Arsenios

She justifies her willingness to sin at all cost because she was baptised and confirmed and confesses her sins, that IS what Catholicism teaches, the preacher was trying to discuss the "Rebirth" and "repentance"... that's not really attacking her more like rebuking her of her misconceptions and lukewarm attitude.
It was a wasted effort of his part, you can't force a rebirth on someone, she is a confessing Christian none the less, I found her prayer strange tho

 

[MennoSota]

diabolos - the devil - means an accuser...

Slander does not have to be false to be slander...

Slander that is true is still evil...

Slander is not rebuke...

Slander is condemnation...

Rebuke is exhortation...

Look -

He asked her: "Have you ever told a lie?"

Answer: "No - Well maybe when I was young I might have..."

"Have you ever stolen anything?"

"Absolutely not - Well, maybe once or twice long ago..."

"Then you ARE a THIEF and a LIAR!" ["GOTCHA you scum!"]

You can as easily, and mores, ask: "Have you EVER told the truth???"

"Well, I try to all the time - Sometimes I fail..."

"But you HAVE told the truth???"

"Most of the time..."

"Then you are a truth teller and beloved of God!!" ["Bless you my sister!"]

Compare the two lines -

One is slanderous and condemns...

The other is not and does not...

Both are true...


Arsenios

So, your accusation that he is a devil makes you...go ahead, label yourself as you labeled him.
Second, he spoke truth, which is that we are all breakers of God's law. This means we are by no means...good. She claimed she was good. Both cannot be true, which means your discernment should be reevaluated.
Slander is not what he did. He told truth. The question is whether he told truth in love or in pride. We might both agree he came across lacking love. The church at Ephesus was rebuked for lacking love while telling truth. Was the church at Ephesus of the devil?
The woman would not admit that her sins made it so she would fall short on judgment day. She imagined that her good works would tip the scale over the bad works. She would not and could not imagine that all her righteousness was as filthy rags before a Holy God. Thus, she would not here the man out.
People who are born in rebellion and continue in rebellion will never willingly hear and submit to their only Savior, Jesus Christ. Instead they will trust in their baptism and confirmation to save them as they imagine their works will save them.

 

[MennoSota]

She did not know how to defend her faith...

As created by God, humans are good...

As fallen in Adam, they are not...

That is the catholic teaching...

The whole of the Truth...

Not just one side or the other...


Arsenios

As created by God, they/we are made in His image, with the capacity to love. With their/our corrupt nature, they/we are condemned as evil in the site of God. If we were good, there would be no need for a Savior and no need for grace.

 

[Arsenios]

you can't force a rebirth on someone

Exactly why his efforts are (demonically) not helpful...

That is NOT HOW to save souls...

It IS HOW to harden hearts...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

As created by God, they/we are made in His image, with the capacity to love. With their/our corrupt nature, they/we are condemned as evil in the site of God. If we were good, there would be no need for a Savior and no need for grace.

We need a Savior because we are both good and evil...

And our God is a Jealous God...

And will have nothing to do with evil...

We need Salvation from evil...

And His Life to walk in the Way of Good...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

So, your accusation that he is a devil makes you...go ahead, label yourself as you labeled him.
Second, he spoke truth, which is that we are all breakers of God's law. This means we are by no means...good. She claimed she was good. Both cannot be true, which means your discernment should be reevaluated.
Slander is not what he did. He told truth. The question is whether he told truth in love or in pride. We might both agree he came across lacking love. The church at Ephesus was rebuked for lacking love while telling truth. Was the church at Ephesus of the devil?
The woman would not admit that her sins made it so she would fall short on judgment day. She imagined that her good works would tip the scale over the bad works. She would not and could not imagine that all her righteousness was as filthy rags before a Holy God. Thus, she would not here the man out.
People who are born in rebellion and continue in rebellion will never willingly hear and submit to their only Savior, Jesus Christ. Instead they will trust in their baptism and confirmation to save them as they imagine their works will save them.

Just trying to live a decent life is a start...

Failure to do so is a help...

A rebuke...

Perfect is the enemy of Good...

We always stand in this life at the cross-roads of Good vs evil...

And we are free to choose either...

Less so as we get older and older...

And more mature in the Faith of our Lord...

Or more perfected in evils...

We become what we do, you see...

What you do matters...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

We need a Savior because we are both good and evil...

And our God is a Jealous God...

And will have nothing to do with evil...

We need Salvation from evil...

And His Life to walk in the Way of Good...


Arsenios

All our righteousness is as filthy rags, Arsenios. We have the capacity to love because we are made in God's image, but that love is corrupted. God's standard of good is unattainable by humans. We fall short. There is none who are good under that standard of holiness.
We need salvation from ourselves because we are evil.

 

[Andrew]

Exactly why his efforts are (demonically) not helpful...

That is NOT HOW to save souls...

It IS HOW to harden hearts...

Arsenios

He is attempting to correct her flawed theology to help save her soul, how is this demonic? She obviously doesn't read her bible or she would have countered his claims with scripture, instead she calls her rebirth the baptism and confirmation... She can do whatever she pleases as long as she confesses her sins to a man in a box and she feels no more shame or remorse. She is not walking with God the way she ought, she is walking with man made tradition.

 

[MennoSota]

Just trying to live a decent life is a start...

Failure to do so is a help...

A rebuke...

Perfect is the enemy of Good...

We always stand in this life at the cross-roads of Good vs evil...

And we are free to choose either...

Less so as we get older and older...

And more mature in the Faith of our Lord...

Or more perfected in evils...

We become what we do, you see...

What you do matters...


Arsenios

Does it matter if you try to live a decent life, trusting in your goodness, and still go to hell because you never recognized that all your works still fall short of God's standard for holiness?
Arsenios, all you're doing is making people comfortable before they spend eternity in hell.
As long as we harbor the idea that we are good, we lie to ourselves in order to feed our own pride. We need a Savior for all of our being, not just the parts we imagine are bad, yet think the rest is good and peachy.

 

[Arsenios]

Does it matter if you try to live a decent life, trusting in your goodness, and still go to hell because you never recognized that all your works still fall short of God's standard for holiness?
Arsenios, all you're doing is making people comfortable before they spend eternity in hell.
As long as we harbor the idea that we are good, we lie to ourselves in order to feed our own pride. We need a Savior for all of our being, not just the parts we imagine are bad, yet think the rest is good and peachy.

You cannot trust in your goodness...
You have to be willing to trust in God...
And that takes training and effort...
For we are fallen far from Him...

That is why Christ established His Body on earth...
To Disciple all the nations...
Teaching them all He had commanded them to do...
Baptizing them into His Body, the Ekklesia...

Trust in your own good and you will end up in hell...
But you have to be willing to do good...
And unwilling to do evil...
And trust God in all...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

You cannot trust in your goodness...
You have to be willing to trust in God...
And that takes training and effort...
For we are fallen far from Him...

That is why Christ established His Body on earth...
To Disciple all the nations...
Teaching them all He had commanded them to do...
Baptizing them into His Body, the Ekklesia...

Trust in your own good and you will end up in hell...
But you have to be willing to do good...
And unwilling to do evil...
And trust God in all...


Arsenios

There is no good to trust in. But, that is what the woman in the video is doing. She is trusting that her good works (which aren't really good by God's standard) would outweigh the bad. She was spewing the doctrine of many churches today, which is termed "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism." Basically it states: We are good persons and I feel good about myself and believe God isn't really present, but when I see him, he'll be happy to meet me. It is the underlying doctrine of many, many Christian groups.
I especially see it in Roman Catholics, Lutherans (ELCA), Presbyterian USA and Episcopalians. Of course it's always found in Unitarian/Universalists.
There are also many Baptists, Methodists, Weslyans, and independent churches spewing the doctrine as well. Basically, free will teachers.

 

[Arsenios]

He is attempting to correct her flawed theology to help save her soul, how is this demonic? She obviously doesn't read her bible or she would have countered his claims with scripture, instead she calls her rebirth the baptism and confirmation... She can do whatever she pleases as long as she confesses her sins to a man in a box and she feels no more shame or remorse. She is not walking with God the way she ought, she is walking with man made tradition.

Assuming you are correct, how does a street confrontation with her help her soul...

There was so much yuck I did not watch the entire video, but
such confrontations do not end up with someone turning to God as their consequence...

Street confrontations attacking a person's core beliefs is simply the opposite of helpful...

People harden up in such encounters...

You cannot force people to see things your way...

Attacking people's core beliefs in public confrontations with a camera is a very demonized version of attempted conversion...

IF she came through that with conversion and a new and improved relationship with God, I might be persuaded...

But she did not - Nor did Israel when publicly rebuked by Christ...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

There is no good to trust in. But, that is what the woman in the video is doing. She is trusting that her good works (which aren't really good by God's standard) would outweigh the bad. She was spewing the doctrine of many churches today, which is termed "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism." Basically it states: We are good persons and I feel good about myself and believe God isn't really present, but when I see him, he'll be happy to meet me. It is the underlying doctrine of many, many Christian groups.
I especially see it in Roman Catholics, Lutherans (ELCA), Presbyterian USA and Episcopalians. Of course it's always found in Unitarian/Universalists.
There are also many Baptists, Methodists, Weslyans, and independent churches spewing the doctrine as well. Basically, free will teachers.

It doesn't matter, Menno...

The confrontation did not end with her conversion...

It did not place her closer to God...

All it did was condemn her...

Show me th God-connection that results from such encounters that slander the person encountered...

No matter if the slander is true or if it is false...

If you cannot see God in the person you are addressing...
And if you cannot address that person accordingly...
Your confrontational assaults will fail to convert...

Look - They need you alongside them helping them see what they are missing seeing...
They need your love for them in the face of their afflictions...
They need your prayers and prophetic insight...

This is not billiards...
These are persons with issues...
We all are...

Winning your argument and condemning your opponent only hardens your opponent...
You need to take their side, walking in their steps with them a ways...
And from there, you just might find something you can say...
That might prove helpful rather than harmful...

And you might not...

The RCC is notoriously and self-admittedly weak in catechesis of its children...
Children become adults...
So how good are the protestants doing with their kids???
Gobs better you think?

Should we get a camera and a microphone and make Protestants look bad?
Think it will do anyone any good?
Too much yuck...


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

Assuming you are correct, how does a street confrontation with her help her soul...

There was so much yuck I did not watch the entire video, but
such confrontations do not end up with someone turning to God as their consequence...

Street confrontations attacking a person's core beliefs is simply the opposite of helpful...

People harden up in such encounters...

You cannot force people to see things your way...

Attacking people's core beliefs in public confrontations with a camera is a very demonized version of attempted conversion...

IF she came through that with conversion and a new and improved relationship with God, I might be persuaded...

But she did not - Nor did Israel when publicly rebuked by Christ...


Arsenios

You would be so surprised my friend to learn that he converts many atheist to Christianity, check out his channel Living Waters.