All About Faith

[Arsenios]

Children:
They have the Seal of the Holy Spirit given them in Baptism...

They are a New Creation in Christ...

They have the repentance of obedience to their parents...

They are full Communicants of the Body and Blood of our Lord...

That is a made up belief and proves you go against obeying Jesus to get saved.

Children obey their parents...

The beginning of their discipleship in Christ...

Direct obedience to Christ telling you what to do in each and every matter throughout the day is not how one begins...

Similarly with obeying those who "have the rule over you..."

To obey Paul is to obey Christ...

To obey one whom Paul has appointed over you is to obey Christ...

To obey your spouse is to obey Christ...

To obey your parents is to obey Christ...

The children have angels until they are older.

Older kids like me have angels too!

No one receives the Holy Spirit without BELIEVING AND REPENTING OF SINS.

Infants cannot believe and repent of sins.

You know infants cannot believe and repent of their sins.

The Holy Spirit can come upon anyone or anything at any time with or without repentance from sins...

Infants are persons...

Baptized infants are persons in Christ...

They can be demonized even within the womb...

"For in sins did my mother bear me..."

And they can be entered into Christ...

Indeed, being born of holy parents is a great blessing...

Being born of evil parents is a curse...

The repentance of children is obedience to their parents who are themselves obedient...

Most of us these days have to fight our way past bad parenting...

Got Services to do now...

Pascha Service is at midnight tonight...

Much preparation to do...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Your denomination is not the church of the New Testament times.

Which denomination is the Church that Paul established at Antioch?

Where the followers of Christ were first called Christians?

How do you denominate that Church?

What NAME do you denominate it by?

Apostolic Churches are not denominations...

Now the Lutheran Church are denominated after the NAME Luther...

And CALVINIST Churches are denominated after the NAME Calvin...

Perhaps you might want to say CHRISTIAN Churches are denominated after the NAME Christ...

Which denominating is what my Church indeed began 2000 years ago...

Act 11:26
And when he had found him,
he brought him unto Antioch.
And it came to pass,
that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church,
and taught much people.
And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

We are simply Christians, my Friend...

Denominationalism only arose in the Western Latin and Papal Church some 500 years ago as a consequence of the Reformation...

We in the Eastern Orthodox Church do not DO denominations...

We have no part with it...

It is entirely yours...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

How does that happen? Think about it.

Latin Rome added but one word to the Creed - Filioque - And a thousand year schism erupted that is ongoing to this day and hour...

A man asked an Orthodox Bishop: "Your Grace - how many Orthodox Christians does it take to change a light bulb?"
The Bishop paused, looked at him, and walked away...
3 hours later he returned and asked one question:
"Change???"

We only give what we have received...

We do not change the Faith we have received from Christ...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

Do you think all infants that die in infancy go to hell?

They cannot believe and repent, nor can they reject.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Children obey their parents...

The beginning of their discipleship in Christ...

You are making things up, for the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe and obey Jesus.
Infants cannot do either one of those things.

The Holy Spirit can come upon anyone or anything at any time with or without repentance from sins...

That is not how regular people get saved by receiving the Holy Spirit.

Infants are persons...

Baptized infants are persons in Christ...

They can be demonized even within the womb...

"For in sins did my mother bear me..."

And?

And they can be entered into Christ...

No way, stop making it up. We ENTER BY FAITH:

Romans 5:2 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[a] boast in the hope of the glory of God.

Not only that, our faith must be alive by right action:

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?


You cannot escape it if you want the Truth and not men’s truth. We must have faith and repent of our sins.

Indeed, being born of holy parents is a great blessing...

Being born of evil parents is a curse...

The repentance of children is obedience to their parents who are themselves obedient...

Most of us these days have to fight our way past bad parenting...

YES! And that is more reason for Catholics and protestants and faith alone people to stop preaching falseness.

I come from a long line of only Catholics who were baptized as an infant, at about 2 months of age.

It ruins lives; it is a hindrance to the Truth and knowing what love is.

Got Services to do now...

Pascha Service is at midnight tonight...

Much preparation to do...


Arsenios

I celebrate Jesus every day all day.

 

[RichWh1]

MC

Where do your beliefs in infant baptism come from? The Bible or not?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YourTruthGod]

Which denomination is the Church that Paul established at Antioch?

Where the followers of Christ were first called Christians?

How do you denominate that Church?

What NAME do you denominate it by?

Apostolic Churches are not denominations...

Now the Lutheran Church are denominated after the NAME Luther...

And CALVINIST Churches are denominated after the NAME Calvin...

Perhaps you might want to say CHRISTIAN Churches are denominated after the NAME Christ...

Which denominating is what my Church indeed began 2000 years ago...

Act 11:26
And when he had found him,
he brought him unto Antioch.
And it came to pass,
that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church,
and taught much people.
And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

We are simply Christians, my Friend...

Denominationalism only arose in the Western Latin and Papal Church some 500 years ago as a consequence of the Reformation...

We in the Eastern Orthodox Church do not DO denominations...

We have no part with it...

It is entirely yours...


Arsenios

Yours isn't the church as in the Bible times.

A church is a gathering of saved people in someone's home.

It is about worshiping God in Truth.

Yours is a denomination because it detours the teachings of Jesus.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Latin Rome added but one word to the Creed - Filioque - And a thousand year schism erupted that is ongoing to this day and hour...

A man asked an Orthodox Bishop: "Your Grace - how many Orthodox Christians does it take to change a light bulb?"
The Bishop paused, looked at him, and walked away...
3 hours later he returned and asked one question:
"Change???"

We only give what we have received...

We do not change the Faith we have received from Christ...


Arsenios

Your denomination has changed the truth.

We are not to call any brothers in Christ 'father'.
Jesus is the only mediator.
We are to go through Jesus and not through Mary and other "Saints".
We are not to bowin front of the works of our hands.
We are not to baptize infants, but rather believe and repent of sins and then be baptized.
The Eastern Orthodox has added things to baptism that are not from God.
They water baptize people by lowering in water three times and give the person a glass of milk with honey.
They teach that there is real blood and flesh in the bread, and teach the people to abstain from sexual relations with their spouse, and abstain from food before receiving the bread.
That is much right there for you to stop doing, but then you know you would have to leave that denomination.

 

[Josiah]

Your denomination has changed the truth.

We are not to call any brothers in Christ 'father'.
Jesus is the only mediator.
We are to go through Jesus and not through Mary and other "Saints".
We are not to bow to bow in front of the works of our hands.
We are not to believe and repent of sins and then be baptized.
The Eastern Orthodox has added things to baptism that are not from God.
They water baptize people by lowering in water three times and give then a glass of milk with honey.
They teach that there is real blood and flesh in the bread, and teach the people to abstain from sexual relations with their spouse, and abstain from food before receiving this brea.
That is much right there for you to stop doing, but then you know you would have to leave that denomination.

Sometimes you just make me tired.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Sometimes you just make me tired.

You are tired but you sure jumped on my post before I could fix some spelling errors.

I don't believe you are tired of going against the truth.

 

[atpollard]

You preach obedience to receive the Holy Spirit but then you seemed to forget that infants in your church are baptized and said to have the Holy Spirit at that time.

That is error.

You know the infants don't repent of their sins.

Jesus didn't tell his disciples to water baptize the children that were brought to him.

As a Particular Baptist, I agree that every Christian should both repent for themself and choose to be baptized for themself, however, as a Christian, I find your post far too emphatic about things that you should be treading on with much greater humility. What right do you, I or Arsenios to tell God to whom God should give forgiveness and the Holy Spirit? Yet you are willing to go even further and claim to whom God cannot and will not give forgiveness and the Holy Spirit!

If God should choose to honor the faith of those parents and bless that Child with faith and His Holy Spirit, who am I to say otherwise. If God has chosen to withhold His Holy Spirit until that child can repent for himself, what can Arsenios do to change it. There has been some talk of “personal experience” in this topic. I am reminded of the statement by Corrie Ten Boon that “God does as He pleases, and He does it right well”. It has been my experience that there are members of the body of Christ that God has claimed as his own since they were infants and that there is merit in infant baptism, however there are also no guarantees that come with infant baptism. There are also members of the body that God has claimed as adults, snatching from death to life under dramatic circumstances, and baptizing as adults for whom their baptism is a powerful memory that holds a special meaning when reading certain scriptures.

In both cases, I find that the Body of Christ is richer for the diversity and God HAS gotten the glory. So please try to tread a bit lighter as you stand up for your faith ... you are going to have to spend eternity with these people, and being reminded of the time you told God what He could and could not do will be embarrassing. :shake:

 

[atpollard]

They have the Seal of the Holy Spirit given them in Baptism...

They are a New Creation in Christ...

They have the repentance of obedience to their parents...

They are full Communicants of the Body and Blood of our Lord...

You are not saying that Children cannot have the Holy Spirit, are you??

Arsenios

I was under the impression that “were marked in Christ with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession” [Eph 1:13-14 NIV] ... so do all EOC infants eventually achieve Glorification, or is there some way to remove the seal and be unmarked, return the deposit, void the guarantee, forsake the inheritance and cease being God’s possession?

 

[Josiah]

What right do you, I or Arsenios to tell God to whom God should give forgiveness and the Holy Spirit? Yet you are willing to go even further and claim to whom God cannot and will not give forgiveness and the Holy Spirit!

If God should choose to honor the faith of those parents and bless that Child with faith and His Holy Spirit, who am I to say otherwise. If God has chosen to withhold His Holy Spirit until that child can repent for himself, what can Arsenios do to change it. There has been some talk of “personal experience” in this topic. I am reminded of the statement by Corrie Ten Boon that “God does as He pleases, and He does it right well”. It has been my experience that there are members of the body of Christ that God has claimed as his own since they were infants and that there is merit in infant baptism, however there are also no guarantees that come with infant baptism. There are also members of the body that God has claimed as adults, snatching from death to life under dramatic circumstances, and baptizing as adults for whom their baptism is a powerful memory that holds a special meaning when reading certain scriptures.

In both cases, I find that the Body of Christ is richer for the diversity and God HAS gotten the glory. So please try to tread a bit lighter as you stand up for your faith ... you are going to have to spend eternity with these people, and being reminded of the time you told God what He could and could not do will be embarrassing. :shake:

Much wisdom there....


I hold that spiritual life, saving faith, the Holy Spirit are gifts from God (justification). HOW God does that I mostly hold as mystery and I don't tell God what He cannot do in that regard (hey, He gave faith to John the Baptist still in his mother's womb). But Ido believe that typically, God uses means (in this and a whole bunch of other stuff). Most Protestants will join with me in agreeing He may use His Word (the proclaimation of the Gospel whether by reading or hearing the Scriptures or even Christian songs, the liturgy, etc.) - the reading or teaching of it is a human work but that entirely misses the point, GOD is working through His means, like a tool in the hands of a carpenter; inert in and of itself but used by the carpenter to do great things. As a Lutheran, I embrace Baptism and Communion as "Means of Grace" too (not all Protestants would agree with me).

Where it gets..... tricky..... is whether He MUST so use such or DOES always use such. When even Jesus preached, not everyone was given faith. Does that make Jesus wrong to preach? Does it mean preaching can't be used by God? On the other hand, if one heard Jesus and DID gain faith, can it be said that his faith came by hearing? Well.... I could go on in this vain, but it's dangerous turf; I think we should just believe God and obey him, eager to embrace the promise. HOW, WHEN, WHETHER God does what God does is pretty much His stuff (not to be irreverent); there is mystery here. And I'm humble enough to admit that. MY role is the do as He told, believe as He said. And trust.

God said, "My thoughts are not your thoughts" and "my ways are not your ways." We are puny. I think we need to be careful about putting Him in a human-size box, making Him submit to what sees "logical" to ourselves, telling Him what He can't do. When I was a boy, we had a dog who would watch TV. He was passive until a cat came on, then he would run up to the TV and growl. We'd all laugh..... knowing there's not actually a cat inside the TV. I wonder how often God laughs at us. Or maybe even is offended by all our dogmatic proclaimations of what He can't do. God never told us to correct Him or answer questions for Him or doubt Him. And certainly not to reduce Him to our size. IMO.



Back to the issue...



.

 

[YourTruthGod]

As a Particular Baptist, I agree that every Christian should both repent for themself and choose to be baptized for themself, however, as a Christian, I find your post far too emphatic about things that you should be treading on with much greater humility. What right do you, I or Arsenios to tell God to whom God should give forgiveness and the Holy Spirit?

What? I am going by what GOD TELLS US IN HIS WRITTEN WORD.

Yet you are willing to go even further and claim to whom God cannot and will not give forgiveness and the Holy Spirit!

You need to think about what YOU say to another person.
Isn't that how it works...what one is falsely accused of is exactly what the false accuser is doing.

If God should choose to honor the faith of those parents and bless that Child with faith and His Holy Spirit, who am I to say otherwise.

Because God TELLS US who gets faith and how.
Infants cannot hear the gospel and believe it and repent of their sins.

If God has chosen to withhold His Holy Spirit until that child can repent for himself, what can Arsenios do to change it.

Arsenisos and MoreCoffee say that the time of water baptism is the time one receives the Holy Spirit!
They have no business preaching to obey since they back denominations that say such things.
No infant can obey to receive the Holy Spirit.

There has been some talk of “personal experience” in this topic. I am reminded of the statement by Corrie Ten Boon that “God does as He pleases, and He does it right well”.

God does NOT GO AGAINST His WORD.

It has been my experience that there are members of the body of Christ that God has claimed as his own since they were infants and that there is merit in infant baptism, however there are also no guarantees that come with infant baptism. There are also members of the body that God has claimed as adults, snatching from death to life under dramatic circumstances, and baptizing as adults for whom their baptism is a powerful memory that holds a special meaning when reading certain scriptures.

In both cases, I find that the Body of Christ is richer for the diversity and God HAS gotten the glory. So please try to tread a bit lighter as you stand up for your faith ... you are going to have to spend eternity with these people, and being reminded of the time you told God what He could and could not do will be embarrassing. :shake:

You should take your own advice and speaker more carefully to me.

We have to believe and obey GOD, not men.

God says repent and believe then receive the Holy Spirit.

Stop preaching things that are not what God says.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Much wisdom there....


I hold that spiritual life, saving faith, the Holy Spirit are gifts from God (justification). HOW God does that I mostly hold as mystery and I don't tell God what He cannot do in that regard (hey, He gave faith to John the Baptist still in his mother's womb). But Ido believe that typically, God uses means (in this and a whole bunch of other stuff). Most Protestants will join with me in agreeing He may use His Word (the proclaimation of the Gospel whether by reading or hearing the Scriptures or even Christian songs, the liturgy, etc.) - the reading or teaching of it is a human work but that entirely misses the point, GOD is working through His means, like a tool in the hands of a carpenter; inert in and of itself but used by the carpenter to do great things. As a Lutheran, I embrace Baptism and Communion as "Means of Grace" too (not all Protestants would agree with me).

Where it gets..... tricky..... is whether He MUST so use such or DOES always use such. When even Jesus preached, not everyone was given faith. Does that make Jesus wrong to preach? Does it mean preaching can't be used by God? On the other hand, if one heard Jesus and DID gain faith, can it be said that his faith came by hearing? Well.... I could go on in this vain, but it's dangerous turf; I think we should just believe God and obey him, eager to embrace the promise. HOW, WHEN, WHETHER God does what God does is pretty much His stuff (not to be irreverent); there is mystery here. And I'm humble enough to admit that. MY role is the do as He told, believe as He said. And trust.


Back to the issue...



.

I can't even force myself to read most of what you post here.

 

[Josiah]

God says repent and believe then receive the Holy Spirit.

Just to be sure.... are you saying there's a chronological and sequential mandate here? FIRST the unregenerate unbeliever must repent to God (Repent: To acknowledge God's lordship and wisdom, to acknowledge and confess we have gone against that, turn to Christ for forgiveness, use the empowering of the Holy Spirit to walk in a new way).... SECOND we need to create faith in ourselves and give it to ourselves.... THEN, after all that is completely, THEN God starts to do something, namely, His first action, giving us the Holy Spirit? Answer that.

Then please give the reference to the verse, "First you must repent, then believe, then receive the Holy Spirit." I don't recognize that verse; please share the reference




.

 

[Josiah]

I can't even force myself to read most of what you post here.

Not surprised. Not one bit.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Just to be sure.... are you saying there's a chronological and sequential mandate here? FIRST the unregenerate unbeliever must repent to God (Repent: To acknowledge God's lordship and wisdom, to acknowledge and confess we have gone against that, turn to Christ for forgiveness, use the empowering of the Holy Spirit to walk in a new way).... SECOND we need to create faith in ourselves and give it to ourselves.... THEN, after all that is completely, THEN God starts to do something, namely, His first action, giving us the Holy Spirit? Answer that.

Then please give the reference to the verse, "First you must repent, then believe, then receive the Holy Spirit." I don't recognize that verse; please share the reference




.

Mark 1:15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Jesus accepts those who do right: Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.


The gospel is given to those who do right: Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[Arsenios]

Yours isn't the church as in the Bible times.

Well, you are right - The Arab who is our Bishop speaks English too...

A definite departure from the Times of the Bible!

A church is a gathering of saved people in someone's home.

That someone is Christ, Whose Home is the Temple of the Body...

But here we are meeting in MY home -

About a hundred and fifty perhaps,

for the midnight Service of Pascha...

It is about worshiping God in Truth.

And in Spirit - Amen...

Yours is a denomination because it detours the teachings of Jesus.

You are so western!!

If that is how you see us,
and will not see us
as we have seen ourselves
for 2000 years,
we can only pray for you,
and we do...

Apostolic Churches are pre-denominational, you see...

Your understanding is engulfed in the post-Reformational phronema...

Antioch suffers no such engulfment of perspective...

Denominationalism is a worldly distractive from the Faith of Christ...

Are you of Paul? Are you of Victor? Are you of Calvin or Luther?

ANATHEMA!!!




Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

Well, you are right - The Arab who is our Bishop speaks English too...

A definite departure from the Times of the Bible!



That someone is Christ, Whose Home is the Temple of the Body...

But here we are meeting in MY home -

About a hundred and fifty perhaps,

for the midnight Service of Pascha...



And in Spirit - Amen...



You are so western!!

If that is how you see us,
and will not see us
as we have seen ourselves
for 2000 years,
we can only pray for you,
and we do...

Apostolic Churches are pre-denominational, you see...

Your understanding is engulfed in the post-Reformational phronema...

Antioch suffers no such engulfment of perspective...

Denominationalism is a worldly distractive from the Faith of Christ...

Are you of Paul? Are you of Victor? Are you of Calvin or Luther?

ANATHEMA!!!




Arsenios

You go against the teachings of Christ.

Do not call your brothers 'father'.

Why can't you obey that it is so simple.

Repent and believe before baptizing anyone. It is so simple.

Why don't you believe and obey? Instead you are for a church that says to call some of your brothers in Christ 'father'; and you baptize infants who cannot believe and repent.

"We must obey God rather than man"