ROMANS 11 WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE?

[YourTruthGod]

Again, how does a spiritually dead person believe if God does not make them alive with Christ?
I doubt you will actually read scripture and discern what God is saying, but I will try again anyway.
Ephesians 2:1-10
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You need to learn how to read what I say and look at the scriptures I give instead of lying about my not answering.

Here it is again:

Dead in sins means Jesus did not make the Gentiles get circumcised before he would save them.

Jesus saved the enemies of God just as easy as the Jews who got circumcised and did all the purification works.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


Did you read that The GENTILES WERE DEAD IN THEIR SINS AND IN THE UN CIRCUMCISION of their flesh.

The Gentiles did NOT enter the covenant with God and get circumcised and do the other purification works of the law.

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.


Paul explains that the Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not enter the covenant with God and atone for their souls by doing the purification works of the law. Paul is explaining that the Gentiles could get saved now through Jesus EVEN THOUGH they were NOT in the covenant with God and privy to the PROMISES.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God saves only unbelievers!! They become believers


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Does that mean that you teach and preach that God saved unbelieving persons and only later do they come to faith in Jesus Christ? Thus they are saved first apart from faith and later gain faith?

 

[RichWh1]

Does that mean that you teach and preach that God saved unbelieving persons and only later do they come to faith in Jesus Christ? Thus they are saved first apart from faith and later gain faith?

Evidently you didn't understand what I was trying to say.
Those dead in trespasses and sins are made alive by grace. Grace produces faith and that brings salvation.
All unsaved are unbelievers until grace saves them through faith




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[YourTruthGod]

Does that mean that you teach and preach that God saved unbelieving persons and only later do they come to faith in Jesus Christ? Thus they are saved first apart from faith and later gain faith?

That is what he is saying.

 

[MennoSota]

You need to learn how to read what I say and look at the scriptures I give instead of lying about my not answering.

Here it is again:

Dead in sins means Jesus did not make the Gentiles get circumcised before he would save them.

Jesus saved the enemies of God just as easy as the Jews who got circumcised and did all the purification works.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


Did you read that The GENTILES WERE DEAD IN THEIR SINS AND IN THE UN CIRCUMCISION of their flesh.

The Gentiles did NOT enter the covenant with God and get circumcised and do the other purification works of the law.

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.


Paul explains that the Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not enter the covenant with God and atone for their souls by doing the purification works of the law. Paul is explaining that the Gentiles could get saved now through Jesus EVEN THOUGH they were NOT in the covenant with God and privy to the PROMISES.

YTG, you have made up very strange interpretations of Ephesians 2:1. No one except you holds such a view and certainly the text does not support your interpretation. Thank you for sharing as it solidifies your error.

 

[YourTruthGod]

YTG, you have made up very strange interpretations of Ephesians 2:1. No one except you holds such a view and certainly the text does not support your interpretation. Thank you for sharing as it solidifies your error.

That scripture does NOT say they did not have to repent of their sins to get saved. It does not say they didn't have to believe in God.

The were dead in their sins and in the UN circumcision of their flesh. That is about the Gentiles who did not purify themselves as the Jews did.

 

[MennoSota]

That scripture does NOT say they did not have to repent of their sins to get saved. It does not say they didn't have to believe in God.

The were dead in their sins and in the UN circumcision of their flesh. That is about the Gentiles who did not purify themselves as the Jews did.

Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

No repentance for adoption necessary.
YTG, you are pretzeling, twisting and making up excuses for your false teaching. God chooses to adopt and he chose before the creation of the world. You CANNOT change what God determines. You're not that powerful.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

No repentance for adoption necessary.
YTG, you are pretzeling, twisting and making up excuses for your false teaching. God chooses to adopt and he chose before the creation of the world. You CANNOT change what God determines. You're not that powerful.

Are you that blind that you miss it?

Jesus shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins. You have to repent of your sins to have that forgiveness.

 

[MennoSota]

Are you that blind that you miss it?

Jesus shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins. You have to repent of your sins to have that forgiveness.

Where does that passage teach what you claim?
YTG, blindness has nothing to do with that passage. It doesn't mention that repentance is required before God chose. It's not there.
Keep railing and claiming what is not found, YTG.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Where does that passage teach what you claim?

You really are blind because I emboldened and underlined where it teaches it.

YTG, blindness has nothing to do with that passage. It doesn't mention that repentance is required before God chose. It's not there.
Keep railing and claiming what is not found, YTG.

It is there. You are blind.

 

[YourTruthGod]

God adopts as sons those who obey Him.

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Those who do evil are the devil's children.

1 John 3:8
The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.


Notice that those who do the will of the Father are sisters and brothers and not before that will of God is done.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Proof to Calvinists and all that a person has to repent of their sins to be saved:

Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

That is about the people who were CUT OFF and NOT saved.

Now listen to what they have to do to GET SAVED:

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

 

[psalms 91]

Proof to Calvinists and all that a person has to repent of their sins to be saved:

Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

That is about the people who were CUT OFF and NOT saved.

Now listen to what they have to do to GET SAVED:

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Romans 10:9-10

 

[RichWh1]

Where does that passage teach what you claim?
YTG, blindness has nothing to do with that passage. It doesn't mention that repentance is required before God chose. It's not there.
Keep railing and claiming what is not found, YTG.

Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “ Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “ Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:37-38 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 2:37-38&version=NASB


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[MennoSota]

God adopts as sons those who obey Him.

Really? Was Paul wrong?
Ephesians 1:4-5
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

YTG, you are dead wrong.

 

[MennoSota]

Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “ Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “ Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:37-38 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 2:37-38&version=NASB


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Did the repentance save them?

Notice what happens first.
"When they heard this, they were pierced to the heart."
The writer to the Hebrews reminds us:
Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
God pierced the hearts of those he chose to save. There were many there who God never pierced their hearts. They did not repent. But, to those who He has chosen and called (those who God makes alive with Christ) they will repent. It is very good and right to tell the newly alive person about God's holiness and call to repentance. The believer will repent. The person still dead in their trespasses and sins will not repent. That person will revolt and stand in opposition to God.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Romans 10:9-10

If you say with you mouth that Jesus is Lord, you had better be obeying him.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Did the repentance save them?

Notice what happens first.
"When they heard this, they were pierced to the heart."
The writer to the Hebrews reminds us:
Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
God pierced the hearts of those he chose to save. There were many there who God never pierced their hearts. They did not repent. But, to those who He has chosen and called (those who God makes alive with Christ) they will repent. It is very good and right to tell the newly alive person about God's holiness and call to repentance. The believer will repent. The person still dead in their trespasses and sins will not repent. That person will revolt and stand in opposition to God.

Of course, repenting saved them.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Evidently you didn't understand what I was trying to say.

Is it not possible that I understood what you did say and that you didn't say what you were trying to say?

Those dead in trespasses and sins are made alive by grace. Grace produces faith and that brings salvation.

Does that mean that people first believe and only after they believe are they saved?

All unsaved are unbelievers until grace saves them through faith

What you have written is stating the obvious. Of course unbelievers are "unsaved" and of course grace is given and belief comes from grace.

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:smirk:

 

[MennoSota]

Of course, repenting saved them.

The text proves you wrong.
If repentance saved then Jesus is not needed.