PERFECT LOVE

Arsenios

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Why did you skip over the post I made to you right before the one you reply to here?

Dementia of old age and senility???

:):):)

Forgive me!

I will try to back-track my miscreance...


Arsenios
 
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MennoSota

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Life can be by no other cause...



God has given us this fallen life through Adam's disobedience...

We no longer have what Adam had before he ate of the forbidden fruit...

God gave to Adam what he ate - eg - Knowing both Good AND evil...

Why do you insist that God gave Adam only evil?

Are we no longer created in the Image of God?



God seeks human repentance...

You see, Adam did not repent...
The way back to God, you see...
Is THROUGH repentance...
And BY God's Holy Grace...

We are Saved THROUGH the Faith of Christ...
We are saved BY God's Grace...
Throw away your repentance from evil...
And you will repel God's Grace...

And yes, you are right...
God can and does GIVE repentance...
Especially to us stiff-necks...
For us to pick up and embrace...

This is the CALL of God...
Unto repentance...
It is easy to mistake this Call...
For Salvation in Christ...

God Calls...
God Justifies...
God Glorifies...
His Saints...

Please explain the difference between these three that Paul enumerated...


Arsenios

No one insists that evil only exists in Adam. What I insist is that the corruption of sin is in all of Adam's offspring. We are ALL dead in our trespasses and sins. No one is righteous, not even one.
God moves his children to repentance because God has made them alive with Christ. Those who remain dead in their trespasses and sins will not and indeed cannot repent. There is no impetus for them to repent. They are in utter rebellion toward God.
God Calls...his elect
God Justifies...his elect
God Glorifies...his elect
His Saints...the elect
 

Arsenios

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Why did you skip over the post I made to you right before the one you reply to here?

Dementia of old age and senility???

:):):)

Forgive me!

I will try to back-track my miscreant dys-slippage...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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No one insists that evil only exists in Adam. What I insist is that the corruption of sin is in all of Adam's offspring. We are ALL dead in our trespasses and sins. No one is righteous, not even one.
God moves his children to repentance because God has made them alive with Christ. Those who remain dead in their trespasses and sins will not and indeed cannot repent. There is no impetus for them to repent. They are in utter rebellion toward God.
God Calls...his elect
God Justifies...his elect
God Glorifies...his elect
His Saints...the elect

Does God ONLY Call His Elect??
Does He Justify ALL those He Calls?
Does He Glorify ALL those He Justifies?

What you do matters, you see...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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==============================================================================================

In Posts #1 and #6, Arsenios quotes St. Maximos the Confessor (apparently as someone authoritative): ‘you must love everyone equally’. In Post #6, he also quotes another author who stated: ‘"perfect love" has as its goal that you must love everyone equally...perfect love inspires you, it encourages and exhorts you, it guides you to the place where you can love everyone equally’.

Then in Post #103, after it was pointed out that Jesus displayed unequal depths of love for different people, Arsenios offered the following:


==============================================================================================

Actually, Arsenios has hit an important nail on the head. Holy Scripture does not say that Jesus when He was on Earth was both 100% God and 100% Man at the same time. That is why that doctrine was not adopted until 451AD, over 400 years after Jesus’ death (that’s a long time). It was adopted at the Council of Chalcedon. And in the thread “Jesus is 100% God and 100% man” in 2016, every verse that was offered in support of that notion, when inspected carefully, was demonstrated to be used out of its natural context.

==============================================================================================

But it would seem that Arsenios was trying to divert attention away from the conflict between his proposal (via the words of others) that Christians ought to love everyone equally, and the fact that Jesus didn’t. But if we as humans ought to love everyone equally, shouldn’t Jesus as a human have loved everyone equally also? (Whether or not He had two natures.)

==============================================================================================

I think I would rather heed the words of the Apostle Paul, than the thoughts of someone like “St. Maximos the Confessor”

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:1)


==============================================================================================

As a created human being, Christ grew in stature across His lifetime, that we should follow Him...

As God He is pre-eternal without change...

Discerning which of these Natures is operating in a particular Biblical account is not always easy...

Just because the Person is the same in each does not unite the two natures as one Nature...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Does God ONLY Call His Elect??
Does He Justify ALL those He Calls?
Does He Glorify ALL those He Justifies?

What you do matters, you see...


Arsenios

Only the elect hear the call for only the elect are made alive so that they might hear.
God justifies all whom He adopts.
God glorifies all whom He adopts.

What God does matters, you see...
 

Arsenios

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The Bible doesn't say the holier one becomes, the more sinful one sees one's self.

Was Paul Holy?
Does he say he is chief of sinners?

1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.


You are right, the Bible does not explicitly teach that the holier one becomes, the more sinful one sees one's self...
Yet Paul himself, one of the most holy of the Apostles, describes himself as the worst of sinners...

That is against the Bible that says, TO FORGET.

You are putting me to work, here!

The term epilamthanomai CAN mean to forget utterly, sort of... But what it means here is "SETTING ASIDE", which means placing it out of one's awareness temporarily, so as to focus on what is more important and in need of one's total attention... Normally that means being poised mindfully in the present... And in this, Paul is not looking backwards but forwards... Toward the goal... To WIN the Prize of the Heavenly Calling...

Philippians 3:13
Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it.
But one thing I do:
Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus.


If he meant "To NEVER have remembrance of any sin I have ever committed..." then he would not regard himself as chief of sinners...

Read what Peter says, he rebukes those who live as if they forget they were cleansed from the past sins.

2 Peter 1:9
But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind,
forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

One cannot remember being cleansed if one does not remember from WHAT one has been cleansed...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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Only the elect hear the call for only the elect are made alive so that they might hear.

Does the Parable of the Sower support this claim?


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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I am a new creation in Christ.
There is no way I am going to go against what the scriptures say
and preach to others not to forget what they were before being saved.

We might have to disagree on this one...

11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others.
What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again,
but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us,
so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen
rather than in what is in the heart.
13If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God;
if we are in our right mind, it is for you.
14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced
that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15And he died for all,
that those who live should no longer live for themselves
but for him who died for them and was raised again.

2 Corinthians 5:16
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view.
Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:
a The old has gone, the new is here!

18 All this is from God,
who reconciled us to himself through Christ
and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ,
not counting people’s sins against them.
And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Seeing people spiritually is seeing them in their hearts...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Does the Parable of the Sower support this claim?


Arsenios
Of the four places where the seed lands, which one grows to maturity?
Did God make a mistake when He ordained the other seeds to fall in places that would not bring fruit? Was God not involved in where the seed would land? Is God just a passive observer who does not orchestrate the movement of His creation?
Does the parable of the sower support God as a passive observer who demands the seed show him that they are worthy of his getting off his couch and doing something?
 

Arsenios

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Of the four places where the seed lands, which one grows to maturity?
Did God make a mistake when He ordained the other seeds to fall in places that would not bring fruit?
Was God not involved in where the seed would land?
Is God just a passive observer who does not orchestrate the movement of His creation?
Does the parable of the sower support God as a passive observer
who demands the seed show him
that they are worthy of his getting off his couch
and doing something?

Well that is a start!

So to what does the term "ground" refer in the parable...

What do the different conditions of "soil" mean?


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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Of the four places where the seed lands, which one grows to maturity?

The warm, rich, moist soil...

The condition of the soil determines the fruitfulness of the seed sown in it, yes?

Did God make a mistake when He ordained the other seeds to fall in places that would not bring fruit?

He was permitting us to see outside what we would see inside, that we should prepare our soil...

Was God not involved in where the seed would land?
Is God just a passive observer who does not orchestrate the movement of His creation?
Does the parable of the sower support God as a passive observer
who demands the seed show him that they are worthy of his getting off his couch
and doing something?

He is directing us to prepare the Way of the Lord!


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Well that is a start!

So to what does the term "ground" refer in the parable...

What do the different conditions of "soil" mean?


Arsenios
Do the seeds choose where they fall?
 

MennoSota

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The warm, rich, moist soil...

The condition of the soil determines the fruitfulness of the seed sown in it, yes?



He was permitting us to see outside what we would see inside, that we should prepare our soil...



He is directing us to prepare the Way of the Lord!


Arsenios
Do the seeds choose where they will fall?
 

YourTruthGod

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No one insists that evil only exists in Adam. What I insist is that the corruption of sin is in all of Adam's offspring. We are ALL dead in our trespasses and sins. No one is righteous, not even one.
God moves his children to repentance because God has made them alive with Christ. Those who remain dead in their trespasses and sins will not and indeed cannot repent. There is no impetus for them to repent. They are in utter rebellion toward God.
God Calls...his elect
God Justifies...his elect
God Glorifies...his elect
His Saints...the elect

Anyone can become an elect of God's.
 

YourTruthGod

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Only the elect hear the call for only the elect are made alive so that they might hear.
God justifies all whom He adopts.
God glorifies all whom He adopts.

What God does matters, you see...

No one is made alive until they come to God through Jesus.
God does not save unbelievers.
 

YourTruthGod

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Was Paul Holy?
Does he say he is chief of sinners?
Just because Paul brought up how even the worst of sinners can get saved, it is in no way saying he doesn't forget what is behind him and straining what is a head.
1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.


You are right, the Bible does not explicitly teach that the holier one becomes, the more sinful one sees one's self...
Yet Paul himself, one of the most holy of the Apostles, describes himself as the worst of sinners...
He was NOT saying he still is doing the things that qualify him as the worst of sinners.

He just wants the worst of sinners to know that they CAN be saved too.

1 Timothy 1:16 But for this very reason I was shown mercy, so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His perfect patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

You are putting me to work, here!

The term epilamthanomai CAN mean to forget utterly, sort of... But what it means here is "SETTING ASIDE", which means placing it out of one's awareness temporarily, so as to focus on what is more important and in need of one's total attention...
Just go by the English. The Bible has already been translated for us.

Normally that means being poised mindfully in the present... And in this, Paul is not looking backwards but forwards... Toward the goal... To WIN the Prize of the Heavenly Calling...
Just as I said the Bible says. It is proof that Paul did not do what you do and not what you say your denomination says.
Philippians 3:13
Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it.
But one thing I do:
Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus.


If he meant "To NEVER have remembrance of any sin I have ever committed..." then he would not regard himself as chief of sinners...
Again, it was to tell people that the worst of sinners can get saved and to TELL people to forget about what they had done because they are a NEW creation in Christ.
One cannot remember being cleansed if one does not remember from WHAT one has been cleansed...
Arsenios

What you are saying is not logic from the Bible.
 

YourTruthGod

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We might have to disagree on this one...

11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others.
What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again,
but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us,
so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen
rather than in what is in the heart.
13If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God;
if we are in our right mind, it is for you.
14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced
that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15And he died for all,
that those who live should no longer live for themselves
but for him who died for them and was raised again.

2 Corinthians 5:16
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view.
Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:
a The old has gone, the new is here!

18 All this is from God,
who reconciled us to himself through Christ
and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ,
not counting people’s sins against them.
And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Seeing people spiritually is seeing them in their hearts...


Arsenios

You should study those scriptures more because it proves what I have been saying.
 

YourTruthGod

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Do the seeds choose where they will fall?

The parable of the seeds shows us HOW to get saved.

Hear the message and then do not give up, give out, or give in.
 

YourTruthGod

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We might have to disagree on this one...

11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others.
What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again,
but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us,
so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen
rather than in what is in the heart.
13If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God;
if we are in our right mind, it is for you.
14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced
that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15And he died for all,
that those who live should no longer live for themselves
but for him who died for them and was raised again.

2 Corinthians 5:16
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view.
Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:
a The old has gone, the new is here!

18 All this is from God,
who reconciled us to himself through Christ
and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ,
not counting people’s sins against them.
And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Seeing people spiritually is seeing them in their hearts...


Arsenios

Do you not know that when we are saved we are at that time made holy and perfect?
 
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