PERFECT LOVE

[YourTruthGod]

This is a debate forum, we can debate here. Not sure what you want to debate, whether or not you are a sinner? That's silly, do Christians sin? Yes it's why they repent

If a Christian is not sinning, like they are not supposed to be doing, then they are not still called a sinner.
I am not speaking as the world speaks, but as God does.

 

[RichWh1]

Many doctrines come from false teachers. That is just the way it is. However, I can easily just speak about what the Bible says. I actually prefer it.
Usually though, Catholics want to speak about their doctrines from their popes, and the reformed want to speak about what they learned from Luther and Calvin.

That's why we discuss issues and doctrine to see whether it is biblical or not.
If we discover a doctrine to be false we are not to abide in it but shun it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YourTruthGod]

This is a debate forum, we can debate here.

Okay, good to know. I don't want to break any rules here.
I see you have many kinds of people on this site and even the doubters are welcome. I don't want to be unwelcome for telling my beliefs.

 

[RichWh1]

If a Christian is not sinning, like they are not supposed to be doing, then they are not still called a sinner.
I am not speaking as the world speaks, but as God does.

Christians do not continue to sin. We all fall short of perfection which is the reason we need a Mediator.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Andrew]

Okay, good to know. I don't want to break any rules here.
I see you have many kinds of people on this site and even the doubters are welcome. I don't want to be unwelcome for telling my beliefs.

Well in this section that have to be trinitarians and believers
Just because we don't always agree doesn't mean we aren't believers

 

[YourTruthGod]

Christians do not continue to sin. We all fall short of perfection which is the reason we need a Mediator.

I agree with that.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Well in this section that have to be trinitarians and believers
Just because we don't always agree doesn't mean we aren't believers

Which sections are for non trinitarians but a believer that Jesus is God?

 

[Andrew]

Which sections are for non trinitarians but a believer that Jesus is God?

World Religion and Speculative theology is probably the best place to discuss Unitarian beliefs

 

[YourTruthGod]

World Religion and Speculative theology is probably the best place to discuss Unitarian beliefs

Oh no, I am not Unitarian. I believe Jesus is God.

 

[atpollard]

How did we get from Perfect Love to Calvinism vs Arminianism?

What better test of Perfect Love than trying to get a Calvinist to love an Arminian and an Arminian to love a Calvinist!

[John 17:20-24 NASB] 20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, [are] in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

 

[YourTruthGod]

More on perfect love.
Okay, so those who say love is not a feeling and an action, I ask you then if you believe fear and hate are feelings and actions?

I am trying to prove that the feeling of love inside our hearts is magnified when we are saved and receive the Spirit of God who is love.

 

[RichWh1]

More on perfect love.
Okay, so those who say love is not a feeling and an action, I ask you then if you believe fear and hate are feelings and actions?

I am trying to prove that the feeling of love inside our hearts is magnified when we are saved and receive the Spirit of God who is love.

Love ( depending on the word used) can be an emotional response.
That would not be 'perfect love'

The Greek word agape (ah GAH pe) is the love God has for us
1Cor 13 describes love (God's love)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YourTruthGod]

Love ( depending on the word used) can be an emotional response.
That would not be 'perfect love'

The Greek word agape (ah GAH pe) is the love God has for us
1Cor 13 describes love (God's love)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just go by English.

 

[Andrew]

Love ( depending on the word used) can be an emotional response.
That would not be 'perfect love'

The Greek word agape (ah GAH pe) is the love God has for us
1Cor 13 describes love (God's love)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha! I remember that being my favorite word years ago, I totally forgot about it. I wanted to use it for a song title, thanks for reminding me

 

[RichWh1]

I just go by English.

English can be a very confusing language if you know what I mean.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YourTruthGod]

English can be a very confusing language if you know what I mean.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is true. I go by simple English. lol

 

[Arsenios]

I am a new creation in Christ. There is no way I am going to go against what the scriptures say and preach to others not to forget what they were before being saved.

11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

2 Corinthians 5:16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: a The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

So is there a problem with saying: "I am a sinner no longer living in my sins..."?

It is the same as saying: "I am a sinner in repentance from my sins..."

1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.

To confess being a sinner is not necessarily to confess living in one's sins...

Paul here tells us to all confess being chief of sinners...

And the Church teaches that the holier one becomes,
the more sinful one sees one's self...
Which accords with Paul above...


Arsenios

 

[Pedrito]

==============================================================================================

In Posts #1 and #6, Arsenios quotes St. Maximos the Confessor (apparently as someone authoritative): ‘you must love everyone equally’. In Post #6, he also quotes another author who stated: ‘"perfect love" has as its goal that you must love everyone equally...perfect love inspires you, it encourages and exhorts you, it guides you to the place where you can love everyone equally’.

Then in Post #103, after it was pointed out that Jesus displayed unequal depths of love for different people, Arsenios offered the following:

Sometimes it is hard to discern the two natures of Christ in Scripture...

==============================================================================================

Actually, Arsenios has hit an important nail on the head. Holy Scripture does not say that Jesus when He was on Earth was both 100% God and 100% Man at the same time. That is why that doctrine was not adopted until 451AD, over 400 years after Jesus’ death (that’s a long time). It was adopted at the Council of Chalcedon. And in the thread “Jesus is 100% God and 100% man” in 2016, every verse that was offered in support of that notion, when inspected carefully, was demonstrated to be used out of its natural context.

==============================================================================================

But it would seem that Arsenios was trying to divert attention away from the conflict between his proposal (via the words of others) that Christians ought to love everyone equally, and the fact that Jesus didn’t. But if we as humans ought to love everyone equally, shouldn’t Jesus as a human have loved everyone equally also? (Whether or not He had two natures.)

==============================================================================================

I think I would rather heed the words of the Apostle Paul, than the thoughts of someone like “St. Maximos the Confessor”

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

==============================================================================================

 

[YourTruthGod]

So is there a problem with saying: "I am a sinner no longer living in my sins..."?

It is the same as saying: "I am a sinner in repentance from my sins..."

1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.

To confess being a sinner is not necessarily to confess living in one's sins...

Paul here tells us to all confess being chief of sinners...

And the Church teaches that the holier one becomes,
the more sinful one sees one's self...
Which accords with Paul above...


Arsenios

Why did you skip over the post I made to you right before the one you reply to here?

The Bible doesn't say the holier one becomes, the more sinful one sees one's self.

That is against the Bible that says, TO FORGET.

Philippians 3:13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus.

Read what Peter says, he rebukes those who live as if they forget they were cleansed from the past sins.

2 Peter 1:9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

 

[Arsenios]

Being made alive with Christ by God's Sovereign will is saving grace.

Life can be by no other cause...

Repentance is a direct effect of the cause, which is God's gracious salvation.

God has given us this fallen life through Adam's disobedience...

We no longer have what Adam had before he ate of the forbidden fruit...

God gave to Adam what he ate - eg - Knowing both Good AND evil...

Why do you insist that God gave Adam only evil?

Are we no longer created in the Image of God?

For you...all that is needed is human repentance.
It determines your salvation at all times.
Any failure on your part to repent results in your utter damnation.
Such a works and legalistic message is not grace and not the gospel.

God seeks human repentance...

You see, Adam did not repent...
The way back to God, you see...
Is THROUGH repentance...
And BY God's Holy Grace...

We are Saved THROUGH the Faith of Christ...
We are saved BY God's Grace...
Throw away your repentance from evil...
And you will repel God's Grace...

And yes, you are right...
God can and does GIVE repentance...
Especially to us stiff-necks...
For us to pick up and embrace...

This is the CALL of God...
Unto repentance...
It is easy to mistake this Call...
For Salvation in Christ...

God Calls...
God Justifies...
God Glorifies...
His Saints...

Please explain the difference between these three that Paul enumerated...


Arsenios