PERFECT LOVE

[YourTruthGod]

That passage does not claim what you claim, Arsenios. You are projecting your dogma upon scripture and demanding that it speaks your dogma. You have very much abused God's word for your own purposes, which are contrary to God.

Paul was not saved on that road to Damascus after he finally believed in Jesus.

Jesus told Paul that it would be told him what he must do.

Paul spent three days not eating and drinking and only praying.

Can you imagine the repenting and crying he must have done in those three days?

 

[Andrew]

So are you saying it is like the Calvinists say? Are you saying God made you believe in Him supernaturally?

I'm saying that God intervened my life and I would call it supernatural. This is just my personal experience and it has nothing to do with Calvin's theology nor any denominations belief, I can not box the Holy Spirit into any kind of theology and I don't believe any theology claims it can.
The believer is beloved of God, Christ is our example and leader to Christian maturity and perfection, we will sin again but through repentance, grace, prayer and mercy we may sin less and become spotless. I am not advocating that we "do what thou wilt", as you quoted yourself 'we have a righteous advocate in Christ' and I agree, we are to strive to become more like Christ but I myself nor can any Christian I personally know can say "I have not sinned even once since I repented", the prophets couldn't even do it what makes you think that we can become spotless of sin? What about Gods grace and fellowship and walk? The promise is that we shall be blameless before God, but can you say that you are 100% Holy as a man and that you haven't committed not even one single sin since you repented? And even if you sinned just once in the past 10 or years, what about that sin? Is it covered?
Grow, learn and mature in Gods grace, look to Christ as your example, you will be a better man tomorrow than you are today, and so on and so on... I pray that I am better man tomorrow than I was today.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I'm saying that God intervened my life and I would call it supernatural. This is just my personal experience and it has nothing to do with Calvin's theology nor any denominations belief, I can not box the Holy Spirit into any kind of theology and I don't believe any theology claims it can.

We still have to go by the written Word. That is what I go by and not by any teacher or denomination.

The believer is beloved of God, Christ is our example and leader to Christian maturity and perfection, we will sin again but through repentance, grace, prayer and mercy we may sin less and become spotless. I am not advocating that we "do what thou wilt", as you quoted yourself 'we have a righteous advocate in Christ' and I agree, we are to strive to become more like Christ but I myself nor can any Christian I personally know can say "I have not sinned even once since I repented", the prophets couldn't even do it what makes you think that we can become spotless of sin?

There are some who were blameless.
It is wrong for anyone to say to a Christian that they don't know personally that they sinned and to say they are a liar. No one would even try then to stop living a sinful life. It is something the Bible says Satan does, he accuses the brethren.

What about Gods grace and fellowship and walk? The promise is that we shall be blameless before God, but can you say that you are 100% Holy as a man and that you haven't committed not even one single sin since you repented? And even if you sinned just once in the past 10 or years, what about that sin? Is it covered?

We are to stop sinning. If anyone does sin we have an advocate. I am not going to be an accuser telling someone they are a lying sinner.
When God saves us we are perfect and holy, and then we are to live up to it.
You don't think it sounds wrong for you to say a person who says they are not sinning is a liar? So right now you are sure I am sinning?

Grow, learn and mature in Gods grace, look to Christ as your example, you will be a better man tomorrow than you are today, and so on and so on... I pray that I am better man tomorrow than I was today.

Telling someone they are a liar and that they sin is not the right thing to do, it's what the accuser does. Jesus says to repent of sins, and to stop sinning. We can't say to everyone they are sinning because we don't know everyone. The Bible says that those who suffered in the body are done with sin.

 

[RichWh1]

When labels are given to one and his/her faith, it causes a lot of confusion. We need to deal with Scripture without the labels applied

Calvinist is a label.


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[YourTruthGod]

When labels are given to one and his/her faith, it causes a lot of confusion. We need to deal with Scripture without the labels applied

Calvinist is a label.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless of course they want to be known as a Calvinist. There are many from the reformed group that are proud of it.

 

[Lamb]

Paul was not saved on that road to Damascus after he finally believed in Jesus.

Jesus told Paul that it would be told him what he must do.

Paul spent three days not eating and drinking and only praying.

Can you imagine the repenting and crying he must have done in those three days?

Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works.

 

[Andrew]

We still have to go by the written Word. That is what I go by and not by any teacher or denomination.


There are some who were blameless.
It is wrong for anyone to say to a Christian that they don't know personally that they sinned and to say they are a liar. No one would even try then to stop living a sinful life. It is something the Bible says Satan does, he accuses the brethren.


We are to stop sinning. If anyone does sin we have an advocate. I am not going to be an accuser telling someone they are a lying sinner.
When God saves us we are perfect and holy, and then we are to live up to it.
You don't think it sounds wrong for you to say a person who says they are not sinning is a liar? So right now you are sure I am sinning?



Telling someone they are a liar and that they sin is not the right thing to do, it's what the accuser does. Jesus says to repent of sins, and to stop sinning. We can't say to everyone they are sinning because we don't know everyone. The Bible says that those who suffered in the body are done with sin.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:5-10

John is stating that if you sin you must confess and ask for forgiveness, if you sin and feel no conviction then you are a liar and deceiving yourself. Maybe you and I are different, I admit to my sins and confess and feel convicted if and when I do sin, you apparently live a life without sin and have nothing to ever confess, I wish it were that easy for me

 

[MennoSota]

lol I personally refer to it as "free ones" when I describe it to someone out loud, in my experience God took away my major compulsions and the rest are left for conviction which I am just as thankful for

This is often referred to as "common grace" as opposed to "saving grace." The latter is bestowed upon the elect so that they will believe. The former is bestowed on all men so that their sin is restrained and there is comfort in the storm of life.

 

[Andrew]

This is often referred to as "common grace" as opposed to "saving grace." The latter is bestowed upon the elect so that they will believe. The former is bestowed on all men so that their sin is restrained and there is comfort in the storm of life.

A repenting thief is common grace? I don't see all men repenting of sins, could you elaborate a bit more on these terms?

 

[Arsenios]

lol I personally refer to it as "free ones" when I describe it to someone out loud, in my experience God took away my major compulsions and the rest are left for conviction which I am just as thankful for

What happens is that the "lesser sins" are not left for you to be convicted by, but instead are given to you as lesser sins to overcome. And in overcoming the lessers, you gain virtue, and as you gain strength in virtue, you gradually become able to take on the greater temptations... Paul calls this "running the race set before us..." This race is not for us to be convicted by, you see, but to win... The fact that you must contend is its own conviction... Us convicts need no further convictions, unless we claim the virtue we struggle to gain. This is the narrowness of the Way - Because everything you have is given by God - It is not yours... Take pride in your possessions, such as any virtue you might think is yours, and you will fall - Another great mercy! For in that fall, you will gain humility, we pray... And regain the Way... So lawful contention in that race is running in humility - In poverty of spirit... "Blessed are the poor in spirit..."

Keeping the Way of Christ is counter-intuitive to human instinct -
It needs to be discipled...
Figuring it out can't work...
That is why Christ commanded the Apostles to disciple the nations...
The Way is narrow and obstructed and afflicted...
"In the world you will find tribulation..."
"But the Peace I give is not of the world..."
We need to be discipled in this Way of Peace that only God can give...
It is the Way of self-denial and suffering for the Kingdom of God...
"For lo through the Cross is Joy come into all the world..."

You can't get to the Promised Land without passing through the waters that destroy your pursuers...
And THEN passing through the wilderness of want and affliction...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Just that God called and I heard

Did I just hear Menno call this "common grace"???

The Call of God is anything but "common"!


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

What happens is that the "lesser sins" are not left for you to be convicted by, but instead are given to you as lesser sins to overcome. And in overcoming the lessers, you gain virtue, and as you gain strength in virtue, you gradually become able to take on the greater temptations... Paul calls this "running the race set before us..." This race is not for us to be convicted by, you see, but to win... The fact that you must contend is its own conviction... Us convicts need no further convictions, unless we claim the virtue we struggle to gain. This is the narrowness of the Way - Because everything you have is given by God - It is not yours... Take pride in your possessions, such as any virtue you might think is yours, and you will fall - Another great mercy! For in that fall, you will gain humility, we pray... And regain the Way... So lawful contention in that race is running in humility - In poverty of spirit... "Blessed are the poor in spirit..."

Keeping the Way of Christ is counter-intuitive to human instinct -
It needs to be discipled...
Figuring it out can't work...
That is why Christ commanded the Apostles to disciple the nations...
The Way is narrow and obstructed and afflicted...
"In the world you will find tribulation..."
"But the Peace I give is not of the world..."
We need to be discipled in this Way of Peace that only God can give...
It is the Way of self-denial and suffering for the Kingdom of God...
"For lo through the Cross is Joy come into all the world..."

You can't get to the Promised Land without passing through the waters that destroy your pursuers...
And THEN passing through the wilderness of want and affliction...


Arsenios

What is maturing in grace? Indeed I learn from my wrong doings because my new heart convicts me when before I paid no mind to any sin great or small. What's the point of lent if there is nothing left in your life to eliminate?

 

[Arsenios]

It is right here:

1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.



Actually, it is a major sin to bear false witness and say someone is sinning. It is also what the Bible says the accuser does.

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Acts 26:17, 18 …I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

It is wonderful to see someone getting the tenses right in John... "Unable to sin" translates a non-existent aorist, when the verb is an ongoing present tense: "Unable to keep on sinning", or as you say: "Unable to continue to sin..." Yes, one can get ambushed and commit sin, but one who is born of God cannot abide in sin, or he will die... As Paul in Hebrews records, such as these, who have once tasted of the Life of the Age to Come and turn back to sin, falling away from their inheritance, are but fit for burning...

I have never been able to gather a batch of scriptures together like you do to answer a particular point... At best, I can but recall one or two that I then paraphrase...

Which is one way I say thank-you to you...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

What is maturing in grace?

We think of it as the acquisition of the Holy Spirit...

It comes in proportion to our ability to hold it...

We are very leaky vessels, you know!

Indeed I learn from my wrong doings because my new heart convicts me when before I paid no mind to any sin great or small.

Being convicted is a start...

What's the point of lent if there is nothing left in your life to eliminate?

Let me know when you get there!

I have a long way to go...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

This is often referred to as "common grace" as opposed to "saving grace."

Warm sunshine is common grace...
So too is the gentle rain...

Divine intervention into one's sinful life by God's Call to repentance IS Saving Grace...

Everything depends on how we respond to it...

I have seem people fight it off and return to their ongoing criminal lives...

They become "spiritual" criminals...

But there is nothing "common" about the Grace of God...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works.

Obeying Jesus to get saved is not ever wrong.

Jesus saves us all on his own and he chooses whom he saves.

Jesus says he chooses to save those who do what he says.

The Bible says faith alone is dead and that faith cannot save anyone.

We are to do what Jesus says, and he says unless you humble yourself like a little child you will in no way enter.

…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 18:3.

…unless you repent, you too will all perish; Luke 13:3.

 

[YourTruthGod]

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:5-10

John is stating that if you sin you must confess and ask for forgiveness, if you sin and feel no conviction then you are a liar and deceiving yourself.

John is talking about being saved in the first place.

Maybe you and I are different, I admit to my sins and confess and feel convicted if and when I do sin, you apparently live a life without sin and have nothing to ever confess, I wish it were that easy for me

If I do sin, then I repent of it. I just don't live a sinful life as I did before I was saved. I don't see myself as a sinner in Christ. The Bible says saints in Christ. I don't like being constantly accused of sin by other people.

 

[Andrew]

John is talking about being saved in the first place.



If I do sin, then I repent of it. I just don't live a sinful life as I did before I was saved. I don't see myself as a sinner in Christ. The Bible says saints in Christ. I don't like being constantly accused of sin by other people.

I never accused you, I don't even know you but if I did I wouldn't tell you "hey you just sinned" that's moronic, you know right from wrong I can't charge you with sin.

 

[YourTruthGod]

It is wonderful to see someone getting the tenses right in John... "Unable to sin" translates a non-existent aorist, when the verb is an ongoing present tense: "Unable to keep on sinning", or as you say: "Unable to continue to sin..." Yes, one can get ambushed and commit sin, but one who is born of God cannot abide in sin, or he will die... As Paul in Hebrews records, such as these, who have once tasted of the Life of the Age to Come and turn back to sin, falling away from their inheritance, are but fit for burning...

I have never been able to gather a batch of scriptures together like you do to answer a particular point... At best, I can but recall one or two that I then paraphrase...

Which is one way I say thank-you to you...


Arsenios

I am definitely a Christian who is for deep study and for others of deep study.
I have been told by someone before that I give a wall of scriptures. So I try to consider that and not post too many.
Thank you for appreciating the thorough way I try to explain with scripture.

 

[Arsenios]

If I do sin, then I repent of it.
I just don't live a sinful life as I did before I was saved.
I don't see myself as a sinner in Christ.
The Bible says saints in Christ.

Indeed, a Saint is always in repentance from sin,

And only sinners need repentance...

Hence Paul writes that he regards himself as a chief of sinners...

He never forgot his responsibility for the stoning of the Holy Proto-Martyr Stephen...

Nor should we forget our former lives while still alive...

Maturity in Christ is the condition of the Saint who has taken every thought captive...

For these, "To live: Christ! To die: Gain!"

They can disciple what they have attained from Christ...

I don't like being constantly accused of sin by other people.

It is a kind of a pain in the dairy hare!


Arsenios