PERFECT LOVE

[Andrew]

We repent from sins, do we not?
To repent from a sin means to never commit that sin again...
The process of repenting from a sin is a struggle to overcome the sin...
There are a lot of skirmishes and engagements and battles...
And Christian repentance is hidden warfare...
Hidden because we are purifying the heart...
Repentance is the purification of the heart...
Not just the outward DOING of the sin -
For this is given and enforcable by the Law...
But repenting of the inward desiring to do the sin...
And once purified, maintaining vigilance against that sin...
As one tackles the next sin...
Progressing from Glory to Glory...
All hidden within the arena of this warfare,
The heart of contest within one's soul and body...

For the Christian, it is not enough to accept Christ on faith and not engage the battle against one's sins...
Because without engaging that battle, one does NOT accept Christ on faith...
And for one reborn into Christ, that battle can be and will be won...
IF one is willing to engage it with the weapons provided...


Arsenios

What's the greek definition of "repent"?
In my case, I was a thief, I made it a routine to steal from stores on a daily basis, the day I repented was the same day I was struck with the call, "hit" with the Holy Spirit you could say, but ever since I would rather be shot in the head than to continue on with that behavior does this count as never sinning a specific sin?
As for sins we commit in general, yes we do seven times a day, we feel convicted do we not? Do we not meditate on the glory of God seven fold due to our sins? I know I do, I know that I am humble enough to realize I am not perfect to where I commit no sin ever, the bible says we are a liar if we say we do not sin... I tried Holy living as promoted by many churches but I'm sorry I found many of the members saying things and doing things that I knew were not so Holy, I see it in myself as well, I feel conviction for at least a few things that I can humanly remember, but it's still there whether I realize my sins or not, I still feel the need to commune with God daily.

 

[Arsenios]

I mean what God tells us.

God tells us that Ananias baptized Saul into Christ and gave him the Holy Spirit...

God tells us that Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch into Christ...

God tells us that Peter baptized the Cornelius party into Christ...

Ephesians 2:4-9
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Which is perfectly consistent with what is written above...

Notice...no water baptism required.

The Scripture you quoted does not deny Baptism into Christ...

All the Scriptures I cited involve Baptism in water into Christ...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

God tells us that Ananias baptized Saul into Christ and gave him the Holy Spirit...

No, scripture doesn't.
Saul was made alive with Christ...then Ananias baptized Saul.
God had already chosen Saul.

God tells us that Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch into Christ...

No, scripture doesn't.
The Ethiopian read scripture and Phillip explained it. God made the Ethiopian alive with Christ and Phillip baptized him.
God had already chosen the Ethiopian.

God tells us that Peter baptized the Cornelius party into Christ...

No, scripture doesn't.
In each instance YOU have imputed YOUR church dogma upon the Bible. YOU and your church have created a FALSE doctrine and a lie, which YOU are passing off as truth.

Ephesians 2:4-9
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Which is perfectly consistent with what is written above...

Which doesn't match your assertion at all. Not one statement about "must repent first." Not one statement about "must be water baptized to be saved." YOU are adding your false dogma to something that God NEVER declares and then saying "God says." YOU make God a liar with your false claims. THAT is a serious offense, Arsenios.

The Scripture you quoted does not deny Baptism into Christ...

All the Scriptures I cited involve Baptism in water into Christ...


Arsenios.

None of your scripture teaches salvation by water baptism. Your assertion is entirely false.
Second, why would God deny something He has NEVER taught? There is no need for God to deny something He never said.
My goodness you have some horrific doctrinal errors.

 

[Arsenios]

What's the greek definition of "repent"?

The Greek term is metanoia - Simply "change nous" - Nous is mind, understood generically - We have no term for it in English - If is the director of intelligence, called often the eye of the heart... The Image of God in which you were created by God... The nous is, in its fallen state, which is the state we know, scattered among all the concerns of the fallen created world in which we live... This is the darkening of the nous... Under the rule of Death, it is given endless reasons to sin... In this fallen life, we are under the rulership of death... This is our condition in this world... And it is why we are Baptized into Christ, into His Death on the Cross, and it is why we mortify our members, as Paul states it, so that we become dead to the world, while alive in Christ... The purpose of discipleship is to wean us from the world, to turn away from worldly concerns and disconnect our nous from them and concentrate it on God... So we repent from the world, and unto God... As the Psalm proclaims: "I will take of the Cup of Salvation (repentance from the world) and I will call on the Name of the Lord..."

In my case, I was a thief, I made it a routine to steal from stores on a daily basis, the day I repented was the same day I was struck with the call, "hit" with the Holy Spirit you could say, but ever since I would rather be shot in the head than to continue on with that behavior does this count as never sinning a specific sin?

God gave you a running start!

As for sins we commit in general, yes we do seven times a day, we feel convicted do we not? Do we not meditate on the glory of God seven fold due to our sins? I know I do, I know that I am humble enough to realize I am not perfect to where I commit no sin ever, the bible says we are a liar if we say we do not sin... I tried Holy living as promoted by many churches but I'm sorry I found many of the members saying things and doing things that I knew were not so Holy, I see it in myself as well, I feel conviction for at least a few things that I can humanly remember, but it's still there whether I realize my sins or not, I still feel the need to commune with God daily.

Living a repentant life does not mean living sin free - Instead it means living a life of vigilance and struggle against any and all sin that shows up at your door... Your intellect is not the great discerner of exalted theological truths... It is instead the guard-dog of the nous, set to attack on sight ANY provocation to sin, and drive it from the heart...

I hope you have a daily rule of prayer, morning and night... Noon and Midnight are good times too - The long Psalm at Midnight - 118 for us, maybe 119 for your Bible...

I went 14 years outside any Church knowing God, and simply asked Him one day what I could do to progress more...

And the rest is history...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

No, scripture doesn't.
Saul was made alive with Christ...then Ananias baptized Saul.
God had already chosen Saul.

Christ left him blind and bereft of the Holy Spirit...
Yes, God chose Saul for His purposes...
And Ananias Baptized Saul into Christ...
Restored his sight to him...
And filled Saul with the Holy Spirit...

Act 9:17
And Ananias went his way,
and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said,
"Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus,
that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest,
hath sent me,
that thou mightest receive thy sight,
and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
And immediately there fell from his eyes
as it had been scales:
and he received sight forthwith,
and arose,
and was Baptized.


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Christ left him blind and bereft of the Holy Spirit...
Yes, God chose Saul for His purposes...
And Ananias Baptized Saul into Christ...
Restored his sight to him...
And filled Saul with the Holy Spirit...

Act 9:17
And Ananias went his way,
and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said,
"Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus,
that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest,
hath sent me,
that thou mightest receive thy sight,
and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
And immediately there fell from his eyes
as it had been scales:
and he received sight forthwith,
and arose,
and was Baptized.


Arsenios

That passage does not claim what you claim, Arsenios. You are projecting your dogma upon scripture and demanding that it speaks your dogma. You have very much abused God's word for your own purposes, which are contrary to God.

 

[Andrew]

God gave you a running start!

lol I personally refer to it as "free ones" when I describe it to someone out loud, in my experience God took away my major compulsions and the rest are left for conviction which I am just as thankful for

 

[YourTruthGod]

'Repent' from my understanding means to rethink, to look inward and most importantly to realize that you are a sinner.
I haven't seen any one here openly object to the significants and importance of repentance, I am sure we all agree that God doesn't repent for us. One thing I do know is that the light that goes off in your head that says "oh my, I need to change my ways for the glory of God" is not something we would have ever thunk if it weren't for God's presence in that time in our lives. You are a believer for even thinking that, I say with confidence that as an atheist I would have laughed at this idea all the way to the grave, it was Gods sudden presence and intervention in my life that caused me to rethink (repent) of my actions, without him I would have died in my sins.
I hope that makes sense as it's part of my personal testimony as a former atheist

I have been hearing you say this before, and would like more understanding about your beliefs. You are not saying God with the Holy Spirit caused you to believe, are you?

again yes, we have to repent of our sins no doubt, no one set on the path of destruction is going to see the kingdom unless they submit to the will of God by realizing that they have offended thee and acknowledge the presence of the Lord

 

[YourTruthGod]

No.
No repentance=no salvation means that if you are unrepentant...God never made you alive with Christ. Repentance is what the one whom God makes alive will do. Dead men don't repent.

God does NOT make anyone alive with the Holy Spirit until AFTER they are accepted by God and not before they believe and repent of their sins.

 

[Andrew]

I have been hearing you say this before, and would like more understanding about your beliefs. You are not saying God with the Holy Spirit caused you to believe, are you?

Just that God called and I heard

 

[YourTruthGod]

I believe that God calls for repentance, his sheep hear the call, repent and continue to follow in the Lord.
As a former atheist I heard about repentance and honestly paid no mind, so upon reading Gods word to repent I did not nor did I care to hear any more orders, God had to call on me and I had to hear, nothing else would have possibly motivated me to even consider repentance

God calls everyone, but some resist.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I mean what God tells us.
Ephesians 2:4-9
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Notice...no water baptism required.

Dead in our sins is about not having to get circumcised in the flesh before Jesus would save us.


Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.


Again, it means that the Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did NOT get circumcised in the flesh and do the other purification/ceremonial works of the law which is how the JEWS ATONED FOR THEIR SOULS AND THEIR SINS; and how they entered the Covenant with God.

 

[Andrew]

God calls everyone, but some resist.

I don't agree with that... when Jesus says "Rise" you rise, if not called on you are still dead, as for the non believing (who btw are already convicted)...
"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" John 10:26-28

 

[YourTruthGod]

What's the greek definition of "repent"?
In my case, I was a thief, I made it a routine to steal from stores on a daily basis, the day I repented was the same day I was struck with the call, "hit" with the Holy Spirit you could say, but ever since I would rather be shot in the head than to continue on with that behavior does this count as never sinning a specific sin?
As for sins we commit in general, yes we do seven times a day, we feel convicted do we not? Do we not meditate on the glory of God seven fold due to our sins? I know I do, I know that I am humble enough to realize I am not perfect to where I commit no sin ever, the bible says we are a liar if we say we do not sin... I tried Holy living as promoted by many churches but I'm sorry I found many of the members saying things and doing things that I knew were not so Holy, I see it in myself as well, I feel conviction for at least a few things that I can humanly remember, but it's still there whether I realize my sins or not, I still feel the need to commune with God daily.

The Bible does not contradict itself. It doesn't say you are a liar if you say you have no sin, and then turn around and say 'IF' you sin, and 'we can't keep sinning'.

So since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, will you not remember all the scriptures that say we can stop sinning and then realize maybe you are wrong about scripture that says we are liars if we say we have no sin?

See, John was telling the people that if we say we have no sin---then we were never saved in the first place, because to be saved, we have to admit we are sinners and then repent of those sins.

 

[Andrew]

The Bible does not contradict itself. It doesn't say you are a liar if you say you have no sin, and then turn around and say 'IF' you sin, and 'we can't keep sinning'.

So since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, will you not remember all the scriptures that say we can stop sinning and then realize maybe you are wrong about scripture that says we are liars if we say we have no sin?

See, John was telling the people that if we say we have no sin---then we were never saved in the first place, because to be saved, we have to admit we are sinners and then repent of those sins.

Where does it say "IF" you sin?
I do read that there are sins to come and that you shouldn't willingly sin... that's not a contradiction it's just reality, by saying you no longer sin you become a liar... and that's a sin in itself... Bible declares it

 

[RichWh1]

How did we get from Perfect Love to Calvinism vs Arminianism?

 

[YourTruthGod]

I don't agree with that...

Matthew 23:27 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Isaiah 65:11-12. Here God says about being forsaken and His holy mountain being forgot. Also, this passage tells us that God called the people, and the people did not answer; He spoke but the people did not listen.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

when Jesus says "Rise" you rise, if not called on you are still dead,

The dead is about those who did not atone for their souls by doing the purification works.

as for the non believing (who btw are already convicted)...
"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" John 10:26-28

They were hardened while Jesus walked the earth, so it is a little different that time, for they were not even allowed to HEAR and SO BE SAVED.
But Jesus says later that when he is crucified then they can be saved.
They still have to stop in unbelief first, and God does NOT make then not believe by regenerating them first. We are not regenerated with the Holy Spirit until after we believe and obey by repenting of sins.

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[Andrew]

How did we get from Perfect Love to Calvinism vs Arminianism?

.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Where does it say "IF" you sin?

It is right here:

1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

I do read that there are sins to come and that you shouldn't willingly sin... that's not a contradiction it's just reality, by saying you no longer sin you become a liar... and that's a sin in itself... Bible declares it

Actually, it is a major sin to bear false witness and say someone is sinning. It is also what the Bible says the accuser does.

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Acts 26:17, 18 …I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

 

[YourTruthGod]

Just that God called and I heard

So are you saying it is like the Calvinists say? Are you saying God made you believe in Him supernaturally?