If Calvinism is not right, how come some people can't muster up faith?

[MoreCoffee]

Then why can't I?

You can. What I wrote does not imply that you cannot.

But I wonder why it matters to you if Calvinism is right or not because Calvinism is nothing more than a set of dogmas put forward as an explanation of some passages in holy scripture and some ideas from philosophy. As such Calvinism is a set of theories and opinions that some people accept as true but that is not explicitly taught in holy scripture. The ideas of predestination and election as well as God calling people to eternal life are in the holy scriptures but the explanation of what those ideas mean in terms of human life, freedom, will, and ability are not spelled out in the holy scriptures exactly as John Calvin's explanations say.

Calvinism is a system of beliefs that some people like and some people do not like. The claim that John Calvin makes is that his explanations are the "right" ones and you should believe them because they are "the right ones" but other people offer different explanations and they say that their explanations are "right" too. You will get into a lot of confusion if you read them all and try to sort them all out and pick the "right one" because it is likely that they are all "wrong" in one way or more than one way. So it is better to stick with the data in holy scripture and hold back from committing to Calvinism or Arminianism as "true" because it is likely that neither system offers an explanation that properly explains every passage in holy scripture.

Maybe it is not possible to explain every passage in holy scripture using the system that John Calvin or Jacob Arminius created. Maybe it does not matter if either of them makes a good point here or there because everybody can make a good point here or there without being right about everything. I can make a good point and still be wrong about other things. That is how it is with John Calvin and Jacob Arminius. Both men offer explanations but both are very likely to be wrong on some points and possibly on many points.

So don't model your life on their explanations, take time to read holy scripture for your self, pray, and live a good and moral life repenting when you fail and always relying on God to be good. People like John Calvin and Jacob Arminius (and yes Pope Francis and any other pope too) are as prone to mistakes and misunderstandings as you or I. Let's not make their systems into a substitute for God and let's avoid worshipping systems as if they were God. Use your brain and think things through before you commit to any belief and always be very careful about committing to a system of beliefs that demand your loyalty and obedience without offering a convincing and truthful reason for asking for obedience and loyalty.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Is there a way in which we can persuade God to offer it to us quicker? Or do we just have to wait for it indefinitely and hope that it will come sometime in this lifetime?

It is that type of heart and mind why.

What about telling God you will search for Him and wait forever, even if it takes a lifetime?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Define "with any meaning", please. If someone says "Jesus is Lord", but in their heart they want to believe it, but they doubt, do they have faith or is it a meaningless statement?

How about say, "Get away from Satan, in Jesus' name"?

Say it a hundred times a day if you have to.

Every time you doubt say that.

All the while, live your life obeying Jesus.

His words are Spirit and life.

 

[Josiah]

How about say, "Get away from Satan, in Jesus' name"?

Something only a Christian can say.... because God saved me.


A dead agnostic isn't going to say that.... so it won't save him; he can't be his own Savior by saying something he can't believe and would never say. Saying it won't make him the Savior and Jesus a joke.

 

[Andrew]

The comfort word that I think of when in doubt is "forgiveness"

 

[YourTruthGod]

Something only a Christian can say.... because God saved me.


A dead agnostic isn't going to say that.... so it won't save him; he can't be his own Savior by saying something he can't believe and would never say. Saying it won't make him the Savior and Jesus a joke.

Anyone who wants to be saved and repented of their sins and keeps doubting can God can say it.

 

[atpollard]

Is there a way in which we can persuade God to offer it to us quicker? Or do we just have to wait for it indefinitely and hope that it will come sometime in this lifetime?

I think you are making more of this than you need to. Let’s start with what GOD has to say about it in His inspired scripture:

(The whole paragraph)

[Romans 10:5-13 NLT] 5 For Moses writes that the law's way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands. 6 But faith's way of getting right with God says, "Don't say in your heart, 'Who will go up to heaven?' (to bring Christ down to earth). 7 And don't say, 'Who will go down to the place of the dead?' (to bring Christ back to life again)." 8 In fact, it says, "The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart."And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced." 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

So God claims (through Paul) that EVERYONE who calls on the name of the LORD ... that’s God ... WILL BE SAVED. Either God told the truth and this promise is as certain as anything can be, or God lied and we have much bigger problems than a little doubt. I am going to come down on the side of God telling the truth.

The “message” of salvation is found in your “lips” and “heart” according to verse 8.

So what exactly does God call on you to confess with your mouth/lips? “Jesus is Lord.”
So what does it mean to call Jesus “Lord”?
1. Jesus is LORD (God)
2. Jesus is your owner, master, boss.

Have you confessed that “Jesus is Lord”? Do you believe that Jesus is God and have you submitted him as your Lord?
If so, then check that box off.

Now let’s look at the “heart” part. What exactly does God call on you to believe? Do you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead?
If so, then check that box off.

If you have confessed what God said to confess and believe what God says to believe then ...
Romans 10:9 ... “YOU WILL BE SAVED”
Romans 10:10 ... “YOU ARE SAVED”
Romans 10:11 ... you will “NEVER BE DISGRACED”
Romans 10:13 ... “YOU WILL BE SAVED”

God didn’t make this any harder than necessary. If you did it, then God did it ... and it is done.

So what exactly do you lack faith in?

 

[MoreCoffee]

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

So God claims (through Paul) that EVERYONE who calls on the name of the LORD ... that’s God ... WILL BE SAVED. Either God told the truth and this promise is as certain as anything can be, or God lied and we have much bigger problems than a little doubt. I am going to come down on the side of God telling the truth.

How does that work exactly. I say and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead so I am saved? I do not believe John Calvin's ideas on various topics though on some other topics John Calvin says things that look right to me. So is that how it works, I am saved because I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead? All done and dusted even if I were to erroneously think that I must work out my own salvation with fear and trembling even though it is God who works in me, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. And even if I erroneously think that If I keep Jesus' commandments, I will abide in His love, just as Jesus has kept His Father’s commandments and abides in God's love. Apparently mixing thing up so badly that I think that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone even with all that error I'm still saved because I confess and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead. That's great! So all this Calvinism is just optional after all.

 

[atpollard]

How does that work exactly. I say and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead so I am saved? I do not believe John Calvin's ideas on various topics though on some other topics John Calvin says things that look right to me. So is that how it works, I am saved because I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead? All done and dusted even if I were to erroneously think that I must work out my own salvation with fear and trembling even though it is God who works in me, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. And even if I erroneously think that If I keep Jesus' commandments, I will abide in His love, just as Jesus has kept His Father’s commandments and abides in God's love. Apparently mixing thing up so badly that I think that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone even with all that error I'm still saved because I confess and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead. That's great! So all this Calvinism is just optional after all.

Tone is difficult to convey in written form. It is usually communicated with voice inflection and non-verbal clues like facial expressions. So forgive me if I have misinterpreted the tone of your post, but ...

I do not believe that your post is honest and straightforward. If you have a real question, ASK IT, and spare me your passive-aggressive mockery.

 

[Andrew]

How does that work exactly. I say and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead so I am saved? I do not believe John Calvin's ideas on various topics though on some other topics John Calvin says things that look right to me. So is that how it works, I am saved because I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead? All done and dusted even if I were to erroneously think that I must work out my own salvation with fear and trembling even though it is God who works in me, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. And even if I erroneously think that If I keep Jesus' commandments, I will abide in His love, just as Jesus has kept His Father’s commandments and abides in God's love. Apparently mixing thing up so badly that I think that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone even with all that error I'm still saved because I confess and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead. That's great! So all this Calvinism is just optional after all.

Is this the Gospel of MoreCoffee?
I could recite this over and over and believe to be saved, spouting "Lord Lord" but I might come off as being a bit Islamic.
No offence my friend, I just came back from a Catholic church myself... but as for my testimony, I could have simply continued laughing at the idea of repentance all together, so what changed in me? What made me rethink (repent) ultimately? MY will??? No sir!, did I repent? Yes sir! but it came from God and His Will, not mine!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Tone is difficult to convey in written form. It is usually communicated with voice inflection and non-verbal clues like facial expressions. So forgive me if I have misinterpreted the tone of your post, but ...

I do not believe that your post is honest and straightforward. If you have a real question, ASK IT, and spare me your passive-aggressive mockery.

This part is simple truth. It is what I believe and confess.

How does that work exactly. I say and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead

This part is a conclusion couched as a question.

so I am saved?

This part is simple truth

I do not believe John Calvin's ideas on various topics though on some other topics John Calvin says things that look right to me.

This part is a question, rhetorical but still a question.

So is that how it works, I am saved because I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead? All done and dusted

This part is mixed self deprecating humour and simple data drawn from holy scripture.

even if I were to erroneously think that I must work out my own salvation with fear and trembling even though it is God who works in me, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. And even if I erroneously think that If I keep Jesus' commandments, I will abide in His love, just as Jesus has kept His Father’s commandments and abides in God's love. Apparently mixing thing up so badly that I think that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone even with all that error I'm still saved because I confess and believe with truth and sincerity that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead.

This part is a conclusion drawn from the passage that you quoted and from your statement that was included as a quote in my post.

That's great! So all this Calvinism is just optional after all.

That is how the post ought to be read.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Is this the Gospel of MoreCoffee?
I could recite this over and over and believe to be saved, spouting "Lord Lord" but I might come off as being a bit Islamic.
No offence my friend, I just came back from a Catholic church myself... but as for my testimony, I could have simply continued laughing at the idea of repentance all together, so what changed in me? What made me rethink (repent) ultimately? MY will??? No sir!, did I repent? Yes sir! but it came from God and His Will, not mine!

but it came from God and His Will, not mine! I do not think your statement is true.

You know as well as do I that what a person thinks comes from his brain. It does not come from invisible spirits planting ideas in the brain. It is not God secreting ideas in the brain. It is the brain working according to natural principles and natural processes and arriving at ideas because of those natural causes. Sense input which includes reading books and hearing other people as well as observing nature, people, and one's own inner life feed into the natural processes and help to form the ideas.

None of it is imposed by undetectable beings injecting ideas into brains.

 

[Andrew]

but it came from God and His Will, not mine! I do not think your statement is true.

You know as well as do I that what a person thinks comes from his brain. It does not come from invisible spirits planting ideas in the brain. It is not God secreting ideas in the brain. It is the brain working according to natural principles and natural processes and arriving at ideas because of those natural causes. Sense input which includes reading books and hearing other people as well as observing nature, people, and one's own inner life feed into the natural processes and help to form the ideas.

None of it is imposed by undetectable beings injecting ideas into brains.

Well God didn't repent for me if that's what you are implying I am saying

 

[Albion]

Is this the Gospel of MoreCoffee?
I could recite this over and over and believe to be saved, spouting "Lord Lord" but I might come off as being a bit Islamic.
No offence my friend, I just came back from a Catholic church myself... but as for my testimony, I could have simply continued laughing at the idea of repentance all together, so what changed in me? What made me rethink (repent) ultimately? MY will??? No sir!, did I repent? Yes sir! but it came from God and His Will, not mine!

Based on his statement, he either thinks that he is the first person in history other than Christ himself not to transgress the Commandments or else he thinks he is irretrievably lost. What a religion!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well God didn't repent for me if that's what you are implying I am saying

God didn't secrete the idea of repentance directly into your brain it developed in your brain because you heard the gospel or some part of it either by voice or vision (film perhaps or reading). It came through intermediary sources. Just as the content of your doctrine does. Just as the content of your faith does.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Based on his statement, he either thinks that he is the first person in history other than Christ himself not to transgress the Commandments or else he thinks he is irretrievably lost. What a religion!

It is you who thinks thus and not I. You invented the "explanation" not me. My post gives a clear and obvious reply to atpollard's post.

 

[Albion]

It is you who thinks thus and not I. You invented the "explanation" not me. My post gives a clear and obvious reply to atpollard's post.

Not I.

And you know that I do not, so why say I do?