Salvation

[MoreCoffee]

God wants all to do all kinds of things..... It doesn't mean we can and it doesn't mean such is the reason for our justification.

Stop fighting against what the holy scriptures teach then theology will make sense.

John 6:28-29 28 “How,” they asked, “are we to do the work that God wants us to do?” 29 “The work that God wants you to do,”answered Jesus, “is to believe in him whom God sent as his messenger.”​

The question asked and answered also answers your objections.

 

[Albion]

Stop fighting against what the holy scriptures teach then theology will make sense.
John 6:28-29 28 “How,” they asked, “are we to do the work that God wants us to do?” 29 “The work that God wants you to do,”answered Jesus, “is to believe in him whom God sent as his messenger.”

The question asked and answered also answers your objections.

So...Faith alone.






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[Josiah]

Stop fighting against what the holy scriptures teach then theology will make sense.

Faith is the gift of God.... not something self does to save self making self the Savior and not Jesus.


Stop fighting against Christianity, the Gospel, the Savior and Scripture. Read 1 Corinthians 2:14 Ephesians 2:8-9 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 6:11


Faith is the gift of God. NO ONE puts faith into their own heart, no one works faith. Faith is the free gift of God. Now, yes, God WILLS all have it (and thus in THAT limited sense, it is Law) but it is not something we create ourselves, it is the gift of God, the special work of the Holy Spirit. Yes, our proclaiming faith is a work we do, but it's proclaiming faith not creating faith...


Friend, there are only two places to look for justification: the mirror or the Cross, to self or to Jesus, YOUR works or CHRIST's works, your accomplishments or Christ's accomplishments. Make up your mind on this - and all the rest of theology falls into place and you clearly hold to Christianity (Jesus) or any of the other religions (self - helped by the divine). The Devil will do all he can to TRY to make this complicated, to TRY to make Jesus as small as possible and self as big as possible, to TRY to displace Jesus as the Savior (assigning Him some OTHER job), to TRY to get you to look away from the Cross and to the mirror. But the Devil is wrong.... all other world religions are wrong.... Yes, we ARE justified by works done - just not our own. I believe Jesus is the Savior. I believe Jesus does the saving. Thus, everything associated with salvation (in this sense of narrow justification) belongs to Jesus and that the Bible is correct: if salvation depended on anything self does then Jesus was in vain.




- Josiah




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[MoreCoffee]

So...Faith alone.

Belief in Jesus Christ is the work that God wants and it is the work that leads to eternal life. Jesus didn't teach that faith alone is the work God wants but it certainly is the work God wants. Jesus explains further when he teaches:

John 6:35-40 35 Then Jesus said to them: “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I say to you, that even though you have seen me, you do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives to me shall come to me. And whoever comes to me, I will not cast out. 38 For I descended from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. 39 Yet this is the will of the Father who sent me: that I should lose nothing out of all that he has given to me, but that I should raise them up on the last day. 40 So then, this is the will of my Father who sent me: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”​

And he went on to say:

John 6:43-52 43 And so Jesus responded and said to them: “Do not choose to murmur among yourselves. 44 No one is able to come to me, unless the Father, who has sent me, has drawn him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It has been written in the Prophets: ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has listened and learned from the Father comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate manna in the desert, and they died. 50 This is the bread which descends from heaven, so that if anyone will eat from it, he may not die. 51 I am the living bread, who descended from heaven. 52 If anyone eats from this bread, he shall live in eternity. And the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.”​

And to drive home his teaching he added:

John 6:54-59 54 And so, Jesus said to them: “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you. 55 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 56 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 57 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 58 Just as the living Father has sent me and I live because of the Father, so also whoever eats me, the same shall live because of me. 59 This is the bread that descends from heaven. It is not like the manna that your fathers ate, for they died. Whoever eats this bread shall live forever.”​

Faith is necessary and other things also are necessary according to the teaching of Christ in John 6.

 

[Josiah]

Faith is necessary and other things also are necessary according to the teaching of Christ in John 6.

..."Other things" for WHAT?


Faith is necessary in Justification (narrow) and is "the free gift of God" which NO ONE can give to self. MANY things are important for the Justified to do..... but they won't justify self (making Jesus a bad joke and self the Savior of self), they flow FROM Justification (narrow), they don't create it. Two different subjects.


And of course faith is not something self gives self. Read 1 Corinthians 2:14 Ephesians 2:8-9 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 6:11



Answer this:
WHO is the Savior?


IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation is entirely, wholly, completely wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you. And of course, then Christianity is true.


IF you answer "me!" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you. And of course, Christianity is a lie.


Which is it?


Satan will work HARD, Satan will work OVERTIME to try to make this ever so complicated, to make it very complex.... to make Jesus as small as possible and self as big as possible.... to take all look to the mirror and away from the Cross.... and he certainly makes progress with some. But it's not complicated. It's not rocket science. Jesus is the Savior. JESUS (not self, not the Pope, not the RCC denomination) .... IS (a fact)..... THE (exclusive, singular, unique, all-sufficient).... SAVIOR (not helper or possibility maker or door opener).


Give the Christian answer and Christian theology falls into place.....


True, we are saved FOR much (not just heaven) - and that includes OUR works, OUR perfect righteousness, OUR perfect holiness, OUR perfect love - but that's a different issue about a different matter. It's one issue to gain a pet, another to own a pet; one issue to gain physical life another to live that life. When the Devil says, "Jesus is the Savior BUT...." whatever follows just cancels out the first clause. Correct is "Jesus is the Savior." "The Saved are to do ......"



- Josiah




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[MoreCoffee]

..."Other things" for WHAT?

For life, as the Lord said. Why did you ask when the answer is in the passage quoted.

John 6:54-59 54 And so, Jesus said to them: “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you. 55 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 56 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 57 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 58 Just as the living Father has sent me and I live because of the Father, so also whoever eats me, the same shall live because of me. 59 This is the bread that descends from heaven. It is not like the manna that your fathers ate, for they died. Whoever eats this bread shall live forever.”​

 

[Albion]

It can be perplexing when a committed Roman Catholic believes whatever his church teaches simply because it does teach it...but then branches out on his own when it is convenient--as in the case here.

The Roman Church of course does NOT teach that partaking of Holy Communion is necessary for salvation.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It can be perplexing when a committed Roman Catholic believes whatever his church teaches simply because it does teach it...but then branches out on his own when it is convenient--as in the case here.

The Roman Church of course does NOT teach that partaking of Holy Communion is necessary for salvation.

Who said that the Catholic Church teaches that receiving communion is necessary for salvation?

 

[Arsenios]

Some versions say "the law that requires faith". That's a different meaning than what a Lutheran would say about "Law of faith is the Law of God". Definitions are extremely important.

Chrysostom writes: "What is the 'law of faith' (nomou pistews)? It is being saved by Grace."

So that it is Salvation by Grace that is the Law of Faith...

Josiah had written: "No. Faith is the free gift of God - it is not the Law."

Perhaps Josiah can show us a passage where it is written that one's personal faith that grants Salvation is a free gift from God... I know that Salvation (by Grace through faith) is a Gift of God... Personal faith is another matter varying greatly according to the person, and not according to God... (Tons of Biblical examples of this in the Gospels...)

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

When the Devil says, "Jesus is the Savior BUT...." whatever follows just cancels out the first clause.

Correct is "Jesus is the Savior."

"The Saved are to do ......"

Some of us simply say that Jesus saves those who embrace the Call of God unto Salvation...

And that He does not save those who scorn the Call of God unto Salvation...

For us, Salvation by God is a big IF on our part...

For others, it is a big IF on God's part...

Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

Some of us simply say that Jesus saves those who embrace the Call of God unto Salvation...

And that He does not save those who scorn the Call of God unto Salvation...

For us, Salvation by God is a big IF on our part...

For others, it is a big IF on God's part...

Arsenios

For Lutherans salvation has no if from God which is why we look to Him solely instead of self.

 

[Josiah]

Chrysostom writes: "What is the 'law of faith' (nomou pistews)? It is being saved by Grace."

So that it is Salvation by Grace that is the Law of Faith...

Josiah had written: "No. Faith is the free gift of God - it is not the Law."

Perhaps Josiah can show us a passage where it is written that one's personal faith that grants Salvation is a free gift from God...

One such Scripture is Ephesians 2:8


Also see 1 Corinthians 2:14 Ephesians 2:8-9 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 6:11





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[TurtleHare]

One such Scripture is Ephesians 2:8


Also see 1 Corinthians 2:14 Ephesians 2:8-9 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 6:11





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Mhmm maybe if we all keep reminding them of who is the Savior and that SAVIOR is key for salvation that they'll finally get the gist of it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Mhmm maybe if we all keep reminding them of who is the Savior and that SAVIOR is key for salvation that they'll finally get the gist of it.

That's rather condescending.

Jesus is Saviour: Acts 13:23; Philippians 3:20; 1 Timothy 1:1; 2 Timothy 1:10; Titus 1:4; Titus 2:13; Titus 3:6; 2 Peter 1:1; 2 Peter 1:11; 2 Peter 2:20; 2 Peter 3:18; Jude 1:25;

 

[Arsenios]

For Lutherans salvation has no if from God which is why we look to Him solely instead of self.

If what you say is true, then in the Lutheran view all men are saved...

The only IF is from man, which is why what man does matters for the Salvation by God of his soul...

Yet our Lutheran friend keeps insisting that man has nothing to do with his own Salvation...

Yet it is man who is in question here, not God...

So man is the variable, and God is the Giver of Life...

Arsenios

 

[Albion]

If what you say is true, then in the Lutheran view all men are saved...

The only IF is from man, which is why what man does matters for the Salvation by God of his soul...

Yet our Lutheran friend keeps insisting that man has nothing to do with his own Salvation...

Yet it is man who is in question here, not God...

So man is the variable, and God is the Giver of Life...Arsenios

Just to clear this up...it is the case that man has nothing to do with his own Salvation--in the sense that nothing of himself contributes to God's judgment of him as worthy.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just to clear this up...it is the case that man has nothing to do with his own Salvation--in the sense that nothing of himself contributes to God's judgment of him as worthy.

Gotta believe to be saved, believing in Jesus Christ is the work that God wants people to do.

 

[Arsenios]

Just to clear this up...it is the case that man has nothing to do with his own Salvation--in the sense that nothing of himself contributes to God's judgment of him as worthy.

Absolutely correct...

God is the Judge...`

Man is the one being judged...

What man does MATTERS for or against his Salvation by the Judge...

Some Lutherans here seem to think that human praxis means nothing to one's Salvation...

We will be judged according to what we do...

Not according to what God does...

Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Absolutely correct...

God is the Judge...`

Man is the one being judged...

What man does MATTERS for or against his Salvation by the Judge...

Some Lutherans here seem to think that human praxis means nothing to one's Salvation...

We will be judged according to what we do...

Not according to what God does...

Arsenios

It's more than that; holy scripture says that people are to be judged by what they did in relation to "these these least" and some reject what scripture says in an effort to lend support to their theology.

Matthew 25:31-46 31 But when the Son of man will have arrived in his majesty, and all the Angels with him, then he will sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all the nations shall be gathered together before him. And he shall separate them from one another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he shall station the sheep, indeed, on his right, but the goats on his left. 34 Then the King shall say to those who will be on his right: ‘Come, you blessed of my Father. Possess the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; 36 naked, and you covered me; sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.’ 37 Then the just will answer him, saying: ‘Lord, when have we see you hungry, and fed you; thirsty, and given you drink? 38 And when have we seen you a stranger, and taken you in? Or naked, and covered you? 39 Or when did we see you sick, or in prison, and visit to you?’ 40 And in response, the King shall say to them, ‘Amen I say to you, whenever you did this for one of these, the least of my brothers, you did it for me.’ 41 Then he shall also say, to those who will be on his left: ‘Depart from me, you accursed ones, into the eternal fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and you did not give me to drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take me in; naked, and you did not cover me; sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they will also answer him, saying: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he shall respond to them by saying: ‘Amen I say to you, whenever you did not do it to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.’ 46 And these shall go into eternal punishment, but the just shall go into eternal life.”​

Judgement is according to what a person does in regard to Jesus present in "one of these least"; who can deny it without denying what Christ teaches?

 

[psalms 91]

It's more than that; holy scripture says that people are to be judged by what they did in relation to "these these least" and some reject what scripture says in an effort to lend support to their theology.

Matthew 25:31-46 31 But when the Son of man will have arrived in his majesty, and all the Angels with him, then he will sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all the nations shall be gathered together before him. And he shall separate them from one another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he shall station the sheep, indeed, on his right, but the goats on his left. 34 Then the King shall say to those who will be on his right: ‘Come, you blessed of my Father. Possess the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; 36 naked, and you covered me; sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.’ 37 Then the just will answer him, saying: ‘Lord, when have we see you hungry, and fed you; thirsty, and given you drink? 38 And when have we seen you a stranger, and taken you in? Or naked, and covered you? 39 Or when did we see you sick, or in prison, and visit to you?’ 40 And in response, the King shall say to them, ‘Amen I say to you, whenever you did this for one of these, the least of my brothers, you did it for me.’ 41 Then he shall also say, to those who will be on his left: ‘Depart from me, you accursed ones, into the eternal fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and you did not give me to drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take me in; naked, and you did not cover me; sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they will also answer him, saying: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he shall respond to them by saying: ‘Amen I say to you, whenever you did not do it to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.’ 46 And these shall go into eternal punishment, but the just shall go into eternal life.”​

Judgement is according to what a person does in regard to Jesus present in "one of these least"; who can deny it without denying what Christ teaches?

Jesus is with all of us at lerast in the fact He loves all and I thinkj we will be judged by our heart towards those less fortunate or thrown away by society, if we are to be moere Christlike then this should be second nature to us to care for the poor and the scik and widow, it should not be second nature to stand there and debate why or how they got that way or do they deserve help, it should be our nature to show the love of Christt even to thiose who dont deserve it