Justification - Part 2

[MennoSota]

So ... the idea is

Free Salvation ... humans need not apply!

OK ... Got it

:groupheads:

Was Jesus sacrifice free?
Where do we find God telling people to apply so He can pick the best candidate?
What we find in scripture is that all humans are so wicked and corrupt that the only just thing to do is for God to cast all humanity into the dump and burn them. But, God doesn't choose to do that with all humanity (even though it is deseved). Instead, for reasons only God knows, God chooses to have Jesus atoning sacrifice pay the cost of the chosen persons sin.
What is that called?
It's called grace. God giving to someone what they do not deserve.

No human can hate God for being just. And no human whom God chooses to pardon can withhold praise at God’s display of amazing grace.
It saddens me that you are unable to comprehend this grace of God provided by the Great and Sovereign King.
Instead your words demand that God allow wretched humanity to prove their goodness and apply for entry even though the Bible says that all fall short of the glory of God. You will never be good enough, MC. You will never merit God's approval by your works. Your works are corrupted and unholy. You missed the mark so badly that your spirit died in the attempt.
I say all that to inform you that you are incapable of applying and getting in. So, yes! No human need apply. Their application is utterly rejected because they are utterly corrupt. They need a....Redeemer.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Was Jesus sacrifice free?
Where do we find God telling people to apply so He can pick the best candidate?
What we find in scripture is that all humans are so wicked and corrupt that the only just thing to do is for God to cast all humanity into the dump and burn them. But, God doesn't choose to do that with all humanity (even though it is deseved). Instead, for reasons only God knows, God chooses to have Jesus atoning sacrifice pay the cost of the chosen persons sin.
What is that called?
It's called grace. God giving to someone what they do not deserve.

No human can hate God for being just. And no human whom God chooses to pardon can withhold praise at God’s display of amazing grace.
It saddens me that you are unable to comprehend this grace of God provided by the Great and Sovereign King.
Instead your words demand that God allow wretched humanity to prove their goodness and apply for entry even though the Bible says that all fall short of the glory of God. You will never be good enough, MC. You will never merit God's approval by your works. Your works are corrupted and unholy. You missed the mark so badly that your spirit died in the attempt.
I say all that to inform you that you are incapable of applying and getting in. So, yes! No human need apply. Their application is utterly rejected because they are utterly corrupt. They need a....Redeemer.

Like I said, Humans need not apply

You keep saying it is all God's doing. Nothing human about it. We get it.

Nevertheless God keeps saying a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[MennoSota]

Like I said, Humans need not apply

You keep saying it is all God's doing. Nothing human about it. We get it.

Nevertheless God keeps saying a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

It's now clear that you are refusing to read all of the Bible in regards to faith and justification. You are choosing to be ignorant. That is on you and you live with it.
Keep trying to merit yourself before God and see how it works out. The Bible tells you that it won't work out well for you. But, you refuse to listen. I dust my sandals off from you. Die in your sins then.

 

[Arsenios]

God baptized me in Christ at the moment He adopted me. I then wanted to share the joy of God's work in me by declaring my union with Christ in a water baptism ceremony. This is how it takes place in scripture. God adopts, God's adopted children declare their union by being water baptized. atpollard did a great job of expressing this in a thread on baptism.
Arsenios you keep putting human works into the process and thus remove God's grace. You do it with justification and now you show that you do it with baptism.
I believe in grace alone. You don't. We will not agree because you add your big butts.

So your "real baptism" was a private spiritual event?

And your "water baptism" was to share the joy of that private spiritual event?

And Scripture shows everyone having a private spiritual event
and then
going out and getting publically baptized in water
so that everyone will share in their joy?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Die in your sins then.

Lord have Mercy on you, Menno...

Lord have Mercy...

You do not have to choose this line...

You do have the power to choose it...

But only in this fallen life...

And not in the Age to Come...

Please pray for those who disagree with you...

Please do not curse them...

Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

If we can't get back on track of the topic and stop the insults the thread will be closed. This is a final warning.

 

[Arsenios]

You are refusing to read all of the Bible in regards to faith and justification.
You are choosing to be ignorant.
Die in your sins then.

I do not hear God in your words, my Brother...

Where is the Love of Jesus in these words?

Where are YOU in these words...??

Do not forget your first love...

The Love of God for the Lost Sinner...

Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

It's now clear that you are refusing to read all of the Bible in regards to faith and justification. You are choosing to be ignorant. That is on you and you live with it.
Keep trying to merit yourself before God and see how it works out. The Bible tells you that it won't work out well for you. But, you refuse to listen. I dust my sandals off from you. Die in your sins then.

The good thing is that I am happy with what God says. I like the way he says it - A person is justified by works and not by faith alone it is reassuring that God cares about what we do as well as what we say and believe and it holds promise of good things to come both in this world and the next. being Justified by works and not by faith alone does not mean one earns justification by works and it does not mean one received justification by faith alone it opens the way for both to coexist as they ought to and as saint Paul explains that they in fact do in his letter to the Ephesians wherein he wrote Ephesians 2:7 In showing us such kindness, in Christ Jesus, God willed to reveal, and unfold in the coming ages, the extraordinary riches of his grace. 8 By the grace of God, you have been saved, through faith. This has not come from you: it is God’s gift. 9 This was not the result of your works, so you are not to feel proud. 10 What we are, is God’s work. He has created us, in Christ Jesus, for the good works he has prepared, that we should devote ourselves to them.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If we can't get back on track of the topic and stop the insults the thread will be closed. This is a final warning.

Please, the thread is not at fault nor is the topic a bad one the only faults can be found in a few posts written by a few individuals the rest of us need not suffer the loss of a good topic simple because a few are misbehaving in their posts.

 

[Lamb]

Please, the thread is not at fault nor is the topic a bad one the only faults can be found in a few posts written by a few individuals the rest of us need not suffer the loss of a good topic simple because a few are misbehaving in their posts.

Then control your people since they won't listen to me

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then control your people since they won't listen to me

Dear sister Lamm, they are God's people. I am but a brother in the family and not the Father. God alone can bring his children into line, not even the most powerful of bishops can do more than admonish.

 

[MennoSota]

So your "real baptism" was a private spiritual event?

And your "water baptism" was to share the joy of that private spiritual event?

And Scripture shows everyone having a private spiritual event
and then
going out and getting publically baptized in water
so that everyone will share in their joy?

Arsenios

When the Bible talks about baptism, there are many instances where water is not in the context. The word, baptizo, is used to mean what it means...immerse. That's it. No water involved.
So, when the Bible tells us that we have been baptized into Christ, it means "immersed" into Christ. No water is mentioned or implied when the word is used. But, that big fact seems to be missed by you. You imagine the word baptizo only applies to water. Thus you worship water as a magical force.
Nowhere do we read that "water" baptism saves. We read that baptism saves. The latter is speaking of the immersion into Christ done by the Holy Spirit...with no need for a human priest or actual, physical water.
It's all God, Arsenios. Human priests not needed.

 

[MennoSota]

Lord have Mercy on you, Menno...

Lord have Mercy...

You do not have to choose this line...

You do have the power to choose it...

But only in this fallen life...

And not in the Age to Come...

Please pray for those who disagree with you...

Please do not curse them...

Arsenios

I dust off my sandals. You and MC have been told about the gospel of God's grace, yet you keep adding law. That is anathema.

 

[MennoSota]

I do not hear God in your words, my Brother...

Where is the Love of Jesus in these words?

Where are YOU in these words...??

Do not forget your first love...

The Love of God for the Lost Sinner...

Arsenios

Read God's word in its fullness. Let the whole word guide you. Cast off your denomination. Cast off your dogma. Let God speak as He does in His word, not as He is silenced by your church dogma.

 

[Andrew]

Read God's word in its fullness. Let the whole word guide you. Cast off your denomination. Cast off your dogma. Let God speak as He does in His word, not as He is silenced by your church dogma.

please finish this sentence for me, I am lost as to where you stand, keep it short and simple

"We are Justified by...... "

 

[MoreCoffee]

I dust off my sandals. You and MC have been told about the gospel of God's grace, yet you keep adding law. That is anathema.

Brother MennoSota, the faithful in Christ enjoy God's grace and fully realise that it is by grace that God's children are saved and not by works of the Law and the faithful in Christ fully realise that God's children are called to live a life characterised by good works because there is no other way to live in Christ but by obeying him in faith by means of God's saving grace. So anathemas pronounced by men mean very little to the faithful in Christ because God's children know that God alone is their judge. So may God have mercy upon us all.

 

[MoreCoffee]

please finish this sentence for me, I am lost as to where you stand, keep it short and simple

"We are Justified by...... "

"... works and not by faith alone"

:scared:

 

[Arsenios]

please finish this sentence for me, I am lost as to where you stand, keep it short and simple

"We are Justified by...... "

"We are Justified BY God alone..."

We are Justified THROUGH the works of the Faith Christ discipled to His Apostles...

We are NOT Justified by Faith apart from works...

Faith without works is dead...

And always remembering:

"For in Thy Sight shall no man living be Justified..."

Yet not forgetting:

"For in Thy Light shall we See Light..."

And...

"Blessed are the Poor in Spirit..."

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Then control your people since they won't listen to me

Forgive me my Sister...
I can be provocative...

We are God's People here...
This is a family spat...

Controlling people is not what we do...
God Bless your good heart...

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

I

please finish this sentence for me, I am lost as to where you stand, keep it short and simple

"We are Justified by...... "

...by God through the atoning, substitutionary, work of Christ.
We know this by faith. Our faith is evidenced by what we do.
This is understood by reading all the passages on faith, not by reading one verse and forcing everything else to fit.