Justification - Part 2

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Arsenios

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!!!!!!ARSENIOS!!!!!

Who???

Me???

Do you believe that you are Justified by faith that is true and pure and which produces good works and fruit through the Holy Spirit in you and not by you alone doing "good" works to prove God that you are justified in the "faith", and do you agree that although you are made righteous by the atonement of Christ that you are still also a sinner?

Yes or no?

Of course...

Er...

Yes, I mean, yes, of course I do...

Er...

Mean yes, that is, I mean of course...

Arsenios :):):)
 

MoreCoffee

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Post #136 (Lämmchen):


Actually, David stated that he would join his son in the grave – in the assurance that they would both be brought back to life from the grave by resurrection at some time in the future – as God had revealed within the Holy Writings that He had entrusted to the nation of Israel.

You are right. David was a man of his times and knew only what was revealed at the time he said those words. The story goes this way:
2Samuel 12:11 Thus says Jehovah: Your misfortune will rise from your own house! I will take your wives from you and give them to your neighbour who shall lie with them in broad daylight. 12 What you did was done secretly, but what I do will be done before Israel in broad daylight.” 13 David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against Jehovah.” Nathan answered him, “Jehovah has forgiven your sin; you shall not die. 14 However, because you have dared to despise Jehovah by doing such a thing, the child that is born to you shall die.” 15 Then Nathan went to his home.

• Jehovah struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and the child became very ill. 16 David entreated God for the child. He kept a strict fast and lay on the ground the whole night. 17 The elders of his house asked him to rise from the ground but he refused. Nor did he join them to eat. 18 On the seventh day, the child died. David’s servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead for they said, “When the child was still alive, we spoke to him but he would not listen to us. What will he do if we tell him the child is dead?” 19 When David saw his servants whispering to one another, he realised that the child was dead and asked them, “Is the child dead?” They replied, “He is dead.” 20 Then David rose from the ground, washed and anointed himself, and changed his clothes. He entered the house of Jehovah and worshipped. After that, he went to his own house, asked for food and ate. 21 Then his servants asked him, “Why are you acting like this? You fasted and wept for the child while it was alive; but after it died, you got up and took food.” 22 David answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, thinking: who knows? Perhaps Jehovah will be kind to me and let my child live. 23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back to life? I can go to him but he cannot return to me.” 24 David comforted his wife Bathsheba. He went in and slept with her and she bore a son whom he named Solomon. Jehovah loved him 25 and made it known through Nathan the prophet, who named him Jedidiah on Jehovah’s behalf.​
 
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MennoSota

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So do sinners need to repent?

Arsenios
I'm a sinner who has been adopted by God. I need to repent and God gives me the ability to repent by virtue of Christ in me.
All sinners are called to repent. Only those whom God adopts and makes alive will repent. All sinners, dead in their trespasses and sins, will mock the message because it is foolishness to them. They cannot repent despite ambassadors telling them over and over again.
But, those whom God makes alive will repent, because God has chosen to make them aware of their utter depravity.
 

MoreCoffee

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I'm a sinner who has been adopted by God. I need to repent and God gives me the ability to repent by virtue of Christ in me.
All sinners are called to repent. Only those whom God adopts and makes alive will repent. All sinners, dead in their trespasses and sins, will mock the message because it is foolishness to them. They cannot repent despite ambassadors telling them over and over again.
But, those whom God makes alive will repent, because God has chosen to make them aware of their utter depravity.

Isn't what you wrote what we've been writing to you in our posts " those whom God makes alive will repent" you write and we wrote "[A man dead in sins responds to the call to repent in] The same way that Lazarus (who was dead) responded to the command of the Lord when the Lord said "Lazarus come forth". Is it so hard to understand that the call of God to "repent and believe the gospel" is a command? Is it so unclear that the command calls for response?"
 

Andrew

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Who???

Me???



Of course...

Er...

Yes, I mean, yes, of course I do...

Er...

Mean yes, that is, I mean of course...

Arsenios :):):)
See there we go, we all as Christians have the same mind and faith, we all agree, so why the lengthy debate?
 

Andrew

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I'm a sinner who has been adopted by God. I need to repent and God gives me the ability to repent by virtue of Christ in me.
All sinners are called to repent. Only those whom God adopts and makes alive will repent. All sinners, dead in their trespasses and sins, will mock the message because it is foolishness to them. They cannot repent despite ambassadors telling them over and over again.
But, those whom God makes alive will repent, because God has chosen to make them aware of their utter depravity.
So you repent and believe and accept justification by faith through grace and not by works alone but only through the saved/justified spirit "the Holy Spirit" in you is it possible to share your righteous works of charity seen good in Gods eyes?

"This is my beloved son of whom I am well pleased"
 

MoreCoffee

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See there we go, we all as Christians have the same mind and faith, we all agree, so why the lengthy debate?

I do not think you've asked the right person.

For some reason what saint James wrote is causing difficulty; specifically, a person is justified by works and not by faith alone upsets a specific kind of theology.
 

MennoSota

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So you repent and believe and accept justification by faith through grace and not by works alone but only through the saved/justified spirit "the Holy Spirit" in you is it possible to share your righteous works of charity seen good in Gods eyes?

"This is my beloved son of whom I am well pleased"
God justifies me because of Christ and Christ alone. Everything that we have in Christ is from God. It's 100% God. To God be the glory.
 

RichWh1

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Yes, not comparing scripture with scripture only but understanding each scripture by experiencing it in life - reading about how to swim will never teach what actually swimming can teach about swimming. The same is true of the holy scriptures, reading and quoting scripture will never teach what obeying the holy scriptures in life can teach. Experience gives depth that a two dimensional page cannot.

You seem to be talking in circles. Using different words and saying the same thing.

Either Scripture comparison is correct or it isn’t. Can’t be both as you are trying to make it.



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Andrew

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I do not think you've asked the right person.

For some reason what saint James wrote is causing difficulty; specifically, a person is justified by works and not by faith alone upsets a specific kind of theology.
I agree with James c
100%
Without works faith is dead!!.
But as I stated above in a reply to Menno, Faith produces good works.
Works does not come before the Faith but after the Faith. Menno suggest that you are all ignorant of the word and have no faith or belief in the Lord because you emphasis on works to justify ones faith before God,
This is borderline sorcery because he is trying to rationalize and measure your emphasis when there is none, he will deny this because he probably believes that because your are Catholic that you are a traditionalist and are an unlearned apostate who believes that you must build a tower to Heaven.
You have made it very clear that works is clearly after accepting faith and go hand to hand as faith encourages and produces good works.
 

Andrew

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God justifies me because of Christ and Christ alone. Everything that we have in Christ is from God. It's 100% God. To God be the glory.
EVERYONE HERE BELIEVES THAT 100%
Amen brother!!! Without God we are damned, with God we are not damned but are still sinners! Christ takes away those sins in the end! Faith produces good works but not all of our works are good only those directed by the Spirit because we still fall short.
 

RichWh1

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Sounds as if MoreCoffee is placing emphasis on works as opposed to faith that results in justification.




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Andrew

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I do not think you've asked the right person.

For some reason what saint James wrote is causing difficulty; specifically, a person is justified by works and not by faith alone upsets a specific kind of theology.
agree, but works does not justify faith which I know you agree with me and menno and everyone here, albeit faith produce good works amen! We all win because despite the protestant/orthodox quarrel which the apostles warned us not to take part in "needless debate" we all have one mind and one body and one faith.
Ego seems to get the best of us sometimes, but can we agree to ALL agree?
I see that you all do agree but are ignorantly chasing your own tails over something already written in stone because like the Apostles who argued over who is the greatest, satan took advantage of it and crept unaware to betray the truth and persecute.
 
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MennoSota

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EVERYONE HERE BELIEVES THAT 100%
Amen brother!!! Without God we are damned, with God we are not damned but are still sinners! Christ takes away those sins in the end! Faith produces good works but not all of our works are good only those directed by the Spirit because we still fall short.
Not everyone, DHoffman. There is a big butt, added by some.
 

Andrew

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Sounds as if MoreCoffee is placing emphasis on works as opposed to faith that results in justification.




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MC has stated before that good works are a result of having the faith and that without works your faith is void and empty... this just means that you have not the faith which if we are taught that we shall know them by their fruits, obviously an unfruitful spirit is an unclean and repented spirit and a Judas, a thief, one who will shout "Jesus Jesus!" but Jesus will say he never knew him for he was a hypocrite and devil
 

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MoreCoffee

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Sounds as if MoreCoffee is placing emphasis on works as opposed to faith that results in justification.

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No, I am not putting emphasis on works as opposed to faith I am quoting what is in the letter of James in the bible it says "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone". It isn't as if works are given primacy by the letter it is just that works and faith are absolutely necessary for the faith to be living faith. Faith without works is dead is what the letter says. It is right, of course.
 

Andrew

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We are Justified by God
 
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