Justification

[MennoSota]

"... and cringe"

But yes, God moves to justify and God says "I WANT THAT MAN"

You need to stop right at this point.

all I have to do is listen with ears to hear and believe with eyes to see
We can receive faith
Or cringe... reject faith

That is works salvation. "All I have to do..."
No, you are not given authority to pick and choose as though God were a passive object on a shelf from which you decide what you want.

 

[Arsenios]

And the crux of the disagreement.

Indeed...

A withdrawal of Grace (imo) would necessarily require continuing in that unrepentant sin.

I have felt it depart suddenly...

Such a departure of Grace is a Great Grace for those experiencing it...

I'm not sure that during my time of resentment and turning away that Grace was withdrawn.

The Grace abides, but our experience of it diminishes...

The resentment was (perhaps) God contending with me all the more...?

I should think so...

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Job 2
[10]..."Should we accept only good things from the hand of God and never anything bad?”

Do you glorify God when evils come?
When school shooters murder students in Florida and Texas?
When ISIS tortures people to death?

When good things come, all glorify God...
But we pay the bills when evils come...
Few therein glorify God...

Arsenios

In Habakkuk 1 we read that it was God who was raising up the most wicked nation, Babylon, to do His bidding is spewing Judah out of the land.
In Habakkuk 3 we read the prophet saying that even if the crops fail, the animals die and everything end, yet He would still praise God.
Arsenios, your flaw is that you imagine yourself to be better than...ISIS, a school shooter, other sinners (recall the Pharisee what says "I thank God I was not made like these..."). You fail to recognize that we all, like sheep have gone astray. We have each gone our own way. You fail to accept that you and I are corrupt by our very nature. More so, you fail to understand that God is working all this corruptness toward good and according to His perfect plan.
We accept the good and the bad as ordained by God for good and for His glory.

 

[psalms 91]

You need to stop right at this point.


That is works salvation. "All I have to do..."
No, you are not given authority to pick and choose as though God were a passive object on a shelf from which you decide what you want.

It is called free will which all men have rather than just being robots with no choice

 

[Albion]

That is works salvation. "All I have to do..."

No, it isn't. That is the belief that Man has the free will to either accept Christ or reject him. It does not necessitate a belief in works righteousness, nor is accepting Christ a "work" in itself.





.

 

[Andrew]

You need to stop right at this point.


That is works salvation. "All I have to do..."
No, you are not given authority to pick and choose as though God were a passive object on a shelf from which you decide what you want.

Not salvation works also I was talking about reading the scripture, I don't see how anyone could be saved without reading the scripture. "Let those who have ears to hear listen to what the spirit is saying"

The last line in my post is really my summery of the whole post.

Charity is given to us by God to replenish the world "love thy neighbor" being fruitfull by tasting the good fruit (for it impossible to taste the good fruit and turn away) thus our salvation IS justified 100% by God and charity is in our (once wicked) hearts (the circumcision) which produces good workmanship -a truly amazing gift my God.
(Its the complete reversal of Adam and Eves rebellion, the 'New Adam')
Am I making any sense?


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[Andrew]

We accept the good and the bad as ordained by God for good and for His glory.

God sends plagues and cursed the land because of mans rebellion, he is the righteous judge, God does nothing bad

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[MennoSota]

No, it isn't. That is the belief that Man has the free will to either accept Christ or reject him. It does not necessitate a belief in works righteousness, nor is accepting Christ a "work" in itself.





.

The only choice a person makes is to rebel continuously.
Romans 3:10-18
[10]As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous— *** not even one.
[11]No one is truly wise; *** no one is seeking God.
[12]All have turned away; *** all have become useless. No one does good, *** not a single one.”
[13]“Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. *** Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.” ***
[14]“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
[15]“They rush to commit murder. ***
[16]Destruction and misery always follow them.
[17]They don’t know where to find peace.” ***
[18]“They have no fear of God at all.”

 

[Andrew]

The only choice a person makes is to rebel continuously.
Romans 3:10-18
[10]As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous— *** not even one.
[11]No one is truly wise; *** no one is seeking God.
[12]All have turned away; *** all have become useless. No one does good, *** not a single one.”
[13]“Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. *** Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.” ***
[14]“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
[15]“They rush to commit murder. ***
[16]Destruction and misery always follow them.
[17]They don’t know where to find peace.” ***
[18]“They have no fear of God at all.”

Let the thief steal no more... that is repentance.



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[MennoSota]

Not salvation works also I was talking about reading the scripture, I don't see how anyone could be saved without reading the scripture. "Let those who have ears to hear listen to what the spirit is saying"

The last line in my post is really my summery of the whole post.

Charity is given to us by God to replenish the world "love thy neighbor" being fruitfull by tasting the good fruit (for it impossible to taste the good fruit and turn away) thus our salvation IS justified 100% by God and charity is in our (once wicked) hearts (the circumcision) which produces good workmanship -a truly amazing gift my God.
(Its the complete reversal of Adam and Eves rebellion, the 'New Adam')
Am I making any sense?


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Was Saul saved while reading the scriptures? Many atheists read the scriptures and know it better than Christians.
The only way anyone is saved is by God's gracious choice to save them. The means that God uses to save them is countless. But, in every circumstance, God has graciously chosen to save them.
God and God alone.

 

[MennoSota]

Let the thief steal no more... that is repentance.



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The thief will never stop on his own accord. No rebel will ever stop rebelling...unless God changes his path and makes him a child of the King. Then and only then will there be no need to be a thief.

 

[Arsenios]

Paul sewed because he didn't want to owe anyone or be accused by anyone.

Those were two worldly reasons he gave... Do you remember the other not-so-worldly reason he gave?

Everyone needs to eat and purchase basic necessities. Paul was no different.

Well, according to God, as I am recalling it, one is not to muzzle the ox threshing the wheat...
As Paul pointed out, yes?

Paul felt God was glorified by his choice.

Biblical referrence?

Was Paul wrong?

No - He said he was doing it for his own benefit in the age to come - That he was doing God's Will in his preaching of the Gospel and fathering Churches he founded, but that this one small thing of earning his own keep when it was not required was for his own benefit above and beyond his ministry as an Apostle, which was required, and should he not do that ministry, then God help him for the evils that would befall him...

Am I remembering this right?

Indeed, I pray God adopts you and reveals his justification of you through Christ and Christ alone.

May the Lord have Mercy on us all...

[I try not to be too directive toward God, mind you...
I mean, it is not like He does not know what is needed, yes?]

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Job 2
[10]..."Should we accept only good things from the hand of God and never anything bad?”

Exactly the point!

Arsenios, your flaw is that you imagine yourself to be better than...ISIS, a school shooter, other sinners

Actually, I co-confess with Paul that I am the worst of sinners, worse than these pikers you mention...

We accept the good and the bad as ordained by God for good and for His glory.

OK - So why do I not see you saying "Lord I thank You for the words of Arsenios here..."

I mean, I thank God for you, my Brother...

And I call you Brother...

You just keep telling God how to fix me...

Which by your account scorns God's gifting me to you...

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Exactly the point!



Actually, I co-confess with Paul that I am the worst of sinners, worse than these pikers you mention...



OK - So why do I not see you saying "Lord I thank You for the words of Arsenios here..."

I mean, I thank God for you, my Brother...

And I call you Brother...

You just keep telling God how to fix me...

Which by your account scorns God's gifting me to you...

Arsenios

Shall I thank God for false teaching, or should I be like Paul and call it anathema?
Paul addressed the Judaisers and their adding of the law in an attempt to be justified before God. He called for God to curse their teaching. Shall I not do the same?

 

[Andrew]

Was Saul saved while reading the scriptures? Many atheists read the scriptures and know it better than Christians.
The only way anyone is saved is by God's gracious choice to save them. The means that God uses to save them is countless. But, in every circumstance, God has graciously chosen to save them.
God and God alone.

Saul was saved by divine intervention, he was also called to be an apostle. The gospel was to be spread to the ends of the earth. All I am saying is that without the gospel how could you possibly come to know God or even Jesus for that matter?
I mean really Patrick!

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[Andrew]

The thief will never stop on his own accord. No rebel will ever stop rebelling...unless God changes his path and makes him a child of the King. Then and only then will there be no need to be a thief.

So that line I assume then was meant to fall on deaf ears?

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[ImaginaryDay2]

Job 2
[10]..."Should we accept only good things from the hand of God and never anything bad?”

We accept the good and the bad as ordained by God for good and for His glory.

Shall I thank God for false teaching...

According to you, yes. In other words, "What he (and you) said"

You just keep telling God how to fix me...
Which by your account scorns God's gifting me to you...

Arsenios

^^^Emphasis mine

 

[MennoSota]

Saul was saved by divine intervention, he was also called to be an apostle. The gospel was to be spread to the ends of the earth. All I am saying is that without the gospel how could you possibly come to know God or even Jesus for that matter?
I mean really Patrick!

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We are all saved by divine intervention. There is no other way.
We are called to be ambassadors of reconciliation to the world.
The good news is precisely that God intervenes and atones for sinners.

 

[MennoSota]

According to you, yes. In other words, "What he (and you) said"



^^^Emphasis mine

I will give thanks for God's Sovereign and ordained plan, which is good. I will not thank God for rebels who preach a false gospel. There is a difference, though you may not see it.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I will give thanks for God's Sovereign and ordained plan, which is good. I will not thank God for rebels who preach a false gospel. There is a difference, though you may not see it.

All decided by you? Then God is not God as you've decided what his sovereign and ordained plan is, and walk in that in opposition to anything else that he may choose to show you. If one takes in and filters out what one decides on his own, then Jesus is not the Savior indeed