Justification

[MennoSota]

That is also true - We become set in our evil ways and God then can grant us the repentance we need...

This Faith is a vast Mystery...

And when God does grant repentance, then after one has become accustomed to that repentance God has granted, then the granting will be withdrawn, and you will be tested in the repentance you have acquired from God according to your acquisition of God's repentance given to you...

The keyword is SYNERGY... A give and take - Because it is YOU who need to change, and it is YOU who must willingly exert the effort to change, and it is God Who determines HOW MUCH effort you even HAVE to exert, and how much willingness you have to even try... Yet you are always free to continue in Christ, OR to blow the whole thing off, burn a burger, grab a beer and the remote, and head for the couch to watch the game... God will honor both decisions in this fallen life... But not in the Age to Come...

Arsenios

PORTLAND, OR—After a massive, multi-million-dollar marketing campaign and far-reaching internet advertisement initiative, local seeker-sensitive church Widegate Community Church proudly announced it had successfully attracted every genuine seeker of God in the whole world to its Sunday service, bringing the attendance total to exactly zero.

Each and every person on planet earth who decided to seek God of their own will showed up to the historic service, so it was completely empty, according to the worship band and pastor. Church leaders opened up the doors bright and early and watched as wave after wave of absolutely nobody parked in the church’s giant parking lot and entered through its state-of-the-art foyer.

“Every single person who seeks after God without His divine prompting showed up,” lead pastor of vision casting Larry Anderson said. “We were really blowing the doors off with the zeroes and zeroes of people who came that day. It was totally a God thing.”

At publishing time, the church had announced it would be marketing its services exclusively to people with good hearts, and that leadership expected exactly zero people to make an appearance each Sunday.
http://babylonbee.com/news/seeker-s...uine-seeker-in-the-world-zero-people-show-up/

 

[Arsenios]

Let's see if I understand this "Dead atheists repent - so God justifies them" theology....

This holds great promise!

One who is DEAD in his trespasses and sins (and how much can DEAD people do?)....

That was me...

one who CANNOT even chant the words "Jesus is Lord" with ANY meaning.....

My hand shot up!

one who DENIES that God even exists.....

Absolutely me...

one who DENIES that this non-existent Myth has any mercy .....

Mercy was an affront to justice I say!

one who DENIES that Jesus was anything but a misled egomanaic.....

He was merely powerless and mentally ill - His ilk I was seeing on the streets daily...

one who DENIES that God has any Law or any wisdom....

I KNEW he didn't...

one who DENIES God and upholds SELF....

Man is the supreme being on earth, not some imaginary eye in the sky...

THAT one will (of course) fall to his knees before the Almighty God,

Well, it did take awhile...

state his profound sorrow for how he has offended the Lord God

I didn't think I had...

and violated God's supreme wisdom and Law,

Well, He wasn't the Christian God, I knew that for sure! (wrongly)

look to Christ as His Savior and Redeemer

How could I - I knew Him AS God, not Christ - for 14 years...

in Whom there is forgiveness via the Cross and Empty Tomb,
seek God's boundless mercy, receive that mercy,

That all came later with discipling in the Ekklesia...

and reverse his ways so as to live for God.

THAT I did immediately - Whole world and my understanding of it went inside out, upside down, and backwards, and I walked and talked with God immediately from then on... Whatever events I walked through...

Hum. Interesting pov.

Well, it is that... It has been an interesting life...

I'm not sure that jibes with Scripture (or ANYTHING ELSE for that matter).

I can tell you this - I identify in my own personal life with just about every event in the NT Bible... From John the Baptist to Paul to the Demoniac(s) to Pentecost to death and resurrection and on and on... I just came to all these not through any Church but through the discipleship of the world in uncompromising repentance unto the healing of my own soul - In which effort I failed, died to the world, awaited death, and encountered God instead...

It was pretty much a Salvation of the Old Testament, and then Baptism in the New into Christ when I finally found the NT Church in Orthodoxy...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Don't you see that God turned you to him?

God uses Law to bring you to contrition.

Then

God uses the Gospel to give you the good news that Jesus forgives your sins and you in faith turn to Him. Repentance is gift talk. Isn't it just like God to keep gifting his children so they may live? It's man's arrogance who leaves out God.

Christ's own words:

Luke 15:17
And when he came to himself, he said,
How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare,
and I am perishing with hunger!

We need to hit bottom, in order to come to ourselves...
Blessed are the poor in Spirit...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

It's about giving credit to the one who truly deserves it...

Glory to God in all things!

You desire to glorify Him in your Salvation, and you do well...

Do you glorify Him when ISIS burns people to death watching them die in unbearable agony?

Because that is what ALL things means...

Easy for good things, harder for bad...

Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

Christ's own words:

Luke 15:17
And when he came to himself, he said,
How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare,
and I am perishing with hunger!

We need to hit bottom, in order to come to ourselves...
Blessed are the poor in Spirit...

Arsenios

I've been a child of God since infancy. He's kept me in His arms since then. Thanks be to Him I don't have to work to BECOME His child, for HE adopted me and brought me to faith so I might have eternal life. My doing for others is a product of that, not a condition.

 

[Arsenios]

Here is a nice devotion on Repentance I posted in February: http://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?5019-A-Devotion-on-Repentance&highlight=repentance

A wonderful theme - "I repented, God, so where is all this Grace You OWE me?"

Instead of thanking God for the Grace of Repentance from sin...

That is why the Church disciples the faithful...

Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

Glory to God in all things!

You desire to glorify Him in your Salvation, and you do well...

Do you glorify Him when ISIS burns people to death watching them die in unbearable agony?

Because that is what ALL things means...

Easy for good things, harder for bad...

Arsenios

What does ISIS burning people have to do with my giving glory to God?

 

[Lamb]

A wonderful theme - "I repented, God, so where is all this Grace You OWE me?"

Instead of thanking God for the Grace of Repentance from sin...

That is why the Church disciples the faithful...

Arsenios

God owes no one but God freely gives and He keeps giving...all because of the Christ who redeems us. It's that death on the cross that brings us to reconciliation and it's the gift of repentance that God gives to bring us to contrition and then in faith turns us to Him in faith.

 

[Arsenios]

Scripture reference?

Why? Is your salvation dependent upon the extra push? (I agree with doing more, but what is the motivation?)

Did Paul do it for selfish reasons, as you claim, or was their a God glorifying reason?

Arsenios, it is sad to see you man-centered view of relationship with God.

I know, I know...

Ask Paul why he kept sewing those tents when he could have eaten at anyone's table and slept in their homes...

So please pray for my Salvation...


Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

I know, I know...

Ask Paul why he kept sewing those tents when he could have eaten at anyone's table and slept in their homes...

Arsenios

Paul didn't sew tents for salvation. He boasted of Jesus' death for salvation by grace through faith and not by works.

 

[Arsenios]

Well thank God I have a Savior who died for my selfish ways and that God keeps turning me to Him. Thanks be to God almighty who forgives me all my sin.

Thank God indeed!

A.

 

[Andrew]

"Even the demons believe..."
Until God moves to justify us, we cannot have faith. We may give intellectual ascent, but it will not be faith.

"... and cringe"

But yes, God moves to justify and God says "I WANT THAT MAN"
all I have to do is listen with ears to hear and believe with eyes to see
We can receive faith
Or cringe... reject faith
Those who reject Gods love will cringe and gnash their teeth and will forever be separated from Gods love... thus demons believe in God but reject Gods love, I don't reject it menno, but I still believe as well... In other words im not charged for believing.
If God wanted robots he would have made us robots, but instead he chose a learning experience for us as he sent his teacher to us.
Why is everyone searching for the magic word anyway? 'Blank' plus 'alone' or plus 'blank'?
As for works, we can either love thy neighbor or hate thy neighbor and if you hate thy neighbor you are a murderer according to scripture, and murderers go to hell why? because they reject 'love'... thats a great command of the two great commands Jesus gave us. Both filed under "LOVE"
Not carnal love menno (you sneaky snake) but I am talking about the same love Christ showed us -we should show to our neighbor... Without LOVE all is dead in you and you are still dead in your sins because your faith is dead...
We will be charged for every word spoken from our mouths because the tongue is poisonous, what we utter in silence will be proclaimed from the rooftops. Let the thief steal no more and when God says "put on the new Adam and be a new creature" those are actions commanded to man and are not to blow off and excuse by simply saying "God alone justifies me so I don't need to do any of that stuff he said" but it also shouldn't call for struggling with flesh and blood but for simple thoughtful works.

Charity brother menno, charity is love actions towards your brother and its a gift from God to us his beloved adopted children which he chose.



Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

^^^^That's a lot of halo's. How do I get those?

 

[Arsenios]

I've been a child of God since infancy.

Glory to God...
Mine was a different path...

He's kept me in His arms since then.

May He always do so...

Thanks be to Him I don't have to work to BECOME His child,
for HE adopted me and brought me to faith
so I might have eternal life.

I do not think there is any question here at all about THAT...

My doing for others is a product of that, not a condition.

I would only add that if some event embittered you somehow and you stopped doing good for others when you could but didn't because of bitterness, you would experience a withdrawal of Grace... Living a God-centered life is the condition of keeping a God-centered life... Departing from it is unto its loss...

Arsenios

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I would only add that if some event embittered you somehow and you stopped doing good for others when you could but didn't because of bitterness, you would experience a withdrawal of Grace... Living a God-centered life is the condition of keeping a God-centered life... Departing from it is unto its loss...

Arsenios

And the crux of the disagreement. A withdrawal of Grace (imo) would necessarily require continuing in that unrepentant sin. I'm not sure that during my time of resentment and turning away that Grace was withdrawn. The resentment was (perhaps) God contending with me all the more...?

 

[MennoSota]

I know, I know...

Ask Paul why he kept sewing those tents when he could have eaten at anyone's table and slept in their homes...

So please pray for my Salvation...


Arsenios

Paul sewed because he didn't want to owe anyone or be accused by anyone. Everyone needs to eat and purchase basic necessities. Paul was no different.
Paul felt God was glorified by his choice. Was Paul wrong?

Indeed, I pray God adopts you and reveals his justification of you through Christ and Christ alone.

 

[Arsenios]

What does ISIS burning people have to do with my giving glory to God?

Do you glorify God when evils come?
When school shooters murder students in Florida and Texas?
When ISIS tortures people to death?

When good things come, all glorify God...
But we pay the bills when evils come...
Few therein glorify God...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Paul didn't sew tents for salvation. He boasted of Jesus' death for salvation by grace through faith and not by works.

Do you remember the reason he gave?

Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

^^^^That's a lot of halo's. How do I get those?

You already have one

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[Arsenios]

^^^^That's a lot of halo's. How do I get those?

I got mine at the Dollar Store...

Arsenios