Can babies be conscious of their baptism?

[Arsenios]

What does it mean to “enter the Kingdom of Heaven” without FAITH?

For an adult, it usually does not work out all that well...

Children are naturally faithful, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven, as our Savior related in Scripture...
It is the parents who keep the child in the discipline of the Faith into which they have both been baptized...

(You seem to claim that baptism does not bestow faith, but baptism does bestow admittance to the Kingdom of Heaven.)

Exactly, which is why Baptism into Christ is not to be taken lightly at all for an adult...
Nor for the child's parents as well...

What does it mean for a person to struggle for Salvation without faith?

It means to honor your mother and your father...

(I am just pressing for clarifications on statement that seem easy to misinterpret your intent from your words.)

Understood, thank-you...

Baptism for an adult burdens that adult, and a year's preparation is not too much...
For the child, the burden is on the parents until the child becomes an adult...
ymmv as to which is which...

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

I can't wrap my head around a teaching that has no biblical basis. The more I read arsenio, the more I wonder where his tradition comes from. It is certainly not from Jesus, the Apostles or the Bible. Yet, somehow this teaching was created anyway and claimed to be Christian.

 

[Josiah]

I can't wrap my head around a teaching that has no biblical basis.

... which is why EVERY Christian from at least 63 until 1523 (and the great majority of Christians since) knew/know nothing of the anti-paedobaptism/credobaptism invention of 3 German radical synergist wackedoodles and is now the new tradition of the Anabaptist/Baptist denomination.




.

 

[MennoSota]

... which is why EVERY Christian from at least 63 until 1523 (and the great majority of Christians since) knew/know nothing of the anti-paedobaptism/credobaptism invention of 3 German radical synergist wackedoodles and is now the new tradition of the Anabaptist/Baptist denomination.




.

Got it. From 63 to 1523 people had no biblical knowledge so they created a fantasy doctrine of infant baptism.

 

[MennoSota]

Paul's letter to Titus may apply to infant baptism:
Titus 1:10-11
[10]For there are many rebellious people who engage in useless talk and deceive others. This is especially true of those who insist on circumcision (infant baptism) for salvation.
[11]They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching.

I have heard people argue that infant baptism is the church equivalent of circumcision so I place infant baptism in parenthesis within the verse.

I note that in Paul's introduction to Titus, he never mentions baptism. But, Paul does mention the role of proclamation and teaching. This is because the Great Commission also emphasized go and teach...followed later by baptizing the saints.
Titus 1:1-4
[1]This letter is from Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I have been sent to proclaim faith to those God has chosen and to teach them to know the truth that shows them how to live godly lives.
[2]This truth gives them confidence that they have eternal life, which God—who does not lie—promised them before the world began.
[3]And now at just the right time he has revealed this message, which we announce to everyone. It is by the command of God our Savior that I have been entrusted with this work for him.
[4]I am writing to Titus, my true son in the faith that we share.May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.

 

[Josiah]

Paul's letter to Titus may apply to infant baptism:
Titus 1:10-11
[10]For there are many rebellious people who engage in useless talk and deceive others. This is especially true of those who insist on circumcision (infant baptism) for salvation.
[11]They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching.

I have heard people argue that infant baptism is the church equivalent of circumcision so I place infant baptism in parenthesis within the verse.

I note that in Paul's introduction to Titus, he never mentions baptism. But, Paul does mention the role of proclamation and teaching. This is because the Great Commission also emphasized go and teach...followed later by baptizing the saints.
Titus 1:1-4
[1]This letter is from Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I have been sent to proclaim faith to those God has chosen and to teach them to know the truth that shows them how to live godly lives.
[2]This truth gives them confidence that they have eternal life, which God—who does not lie—promised them before the world began.
[3]And now at just the right time he has revealed this message, which we announce to everyone. It is by the command of God our Savior that I have been entrusted with this work for him.
[4]I am writing to Titus, my true son in the faith that we share.May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.

1. Christ never commanded circumcision.

2. No one claims that circumcision, per se, saves. Jesus saves

3. No one claims that baptism, per se, saves. Jesus saves.

4. No Scripture speaks of mandated prohibitions on baptism... no Scripture speaks of forbidding it to those under the magical (but never disclosed) age of X... no Scripture speaks of a dogmatic prerequisite of FIRST choosing Jesus as ones personal Savior and then giving adequate public proof of such. No Scripture speaks of ANY of the new inventions those German radical synergists invented in 1523 which is why NO ONE imposed the prohibitions and prerequisites that the Anabaptist/Baptist started in 1523.

 

[MennoSota]

1. Christ never commanded circumcision.

2. No one claims that circumcision, per se, saves. Jesus saves

3. No one claims that baptism, per se, saves. Jesus saves.

4. No Scripture speaks of mandated prohibitions on baptism... no Scripture speaks of forbidding it to those under the magical (but never disclosed) age of X... no Scripture speaks of a dogmatic prerequisite of FIRST choosing Jesus as ones personal Savior and then giving adequate public proof of such. No Scripture speaks of ANY of the new inventions those German radical synergists invented in 1523 which is why NO ONE imposed the prohibitions and prerequisites that the Anabaptist/Baptist started in 1523.

1) God gave the command to Abraham regarding circumcision. Is Jesus God? Did God give the command to baptize infants as the church equivalent to circumcision?
2) The Pope does. He implied it with the video about the children who were baptized.
3) See #2. Also note that some people in the Christian spectrum do teach salvation via baptism. Talk with arsenio.
4) No scripture says to baptize anyone at anytime for any reason. Futhermore there is no prohibition on baptizing animals, plants, rocks, water or oxygen. Do you baptize these things as well? (See, I can play your game.)

 

[Josiah]

No use.

 

[Andrew]

Maybe back then their baptisms covered the rest of their generations and we are just waisting water...

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[Pedrito]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] in Post #3:

Lutherans teach that justification (narrow) is Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide as ONE inseparable doctrine...

Sola Gratia (Grace Alone) ... Solus Christus (Christ Alone) ... Sola Fide (Faith Alone).

Me in Post #106:
"I seem to remember some emphasis being placed elsewhere on "baptism doth also now save us".

Is my recollection faulty?"


[MENTION=486]Arsenios[/MENTION] in Post #107:

Not that I recall...

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] in Post #109:

Seems so...

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] in Post #386:

...No one claims that baptism, per se, saves. Jesus saves....

==============================================================================================

In Post #237 in the "Can babies be conscious of their baptism? Thread", in response to my request in Post #236 in that same thread: "I therefore request of Lämmchen, to make it easy for all interested parties, that she either consolidate those thoughts from various locations regarding the baptism of babies, into a new Post, or provide links to the particular Posts in which she expressed those relevant thoughts", [MENTION=11]Lämmchen[/MENTION] supplied two sets of verses under the heading "WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM? "(please refer to that Post).

An explanation following the first set said:
* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

The explanation following the second set stated:
* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.

==============================================================================================

I thought it might be good to set the record straight.

 

[Lamb]

What do you mean consolidate my thoughts from all the baptism threads? What exactly would you like me to answer? Is it pertaining to what you asked Josiah about "baptism saves"? You see, baptism is God's work, not ours because the wording is "be baptized" and that means something is being done to us. We aren't doing anything in baptism.

The verses I had listed show the connections of baptism to God working in us as well as to Christ's work on the cross. Baptism is a means that God has chosen to deliver to us promises He has made. If you wish me to list all those verses again I will. It's not that baptism saves in that I got myself baptized but baptism saves because in baptism GOD washes away my sins, clothes me in Christ and gives me the gift of the Holy Spirit. That's the important part...it's God doing the saving all the time, not man. Man receives what God wants to give us.

 

[Lamb]

[MENTION=142]Pedrito[/MENTION] here are the verses from a Bible Study my friend did and she gave me permission to use it:

1. WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?

1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.

 

[Lamb]

WHO IS TO BE BAPTIZED?

Matthew 28:19-20. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16. And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


2. Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

* Note: The burden of proof lies on those who would choose to deny God’s gift of Baptism to an entire class of people.


3. ARE THERE ANY INDICATIONS IN THE BIBLE THAT INFANTS WERE BAPTIZED?

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

* Note: Circumcision was a rite associated almost exclusively with infants (eight days old). It would be odd to refer to Baptism as the “circumcision of Christ” if Baptism of infants was to be forbidden while circumcision was given almost exclusively to infants. (Note also that infants did receive Jewish proselyte baptism.)

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Acts 16:14-15. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

1 Corinthians 1:16. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Acts 16:33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

* Note: Households included all members of the family (which usually included extended family) as well as servants and their families. For this reason, it would be unlikely that none of the households referred to above included a baby.

* Note: There is very strong historical evidence that Infant Baptism has been the common practice of the Christian Church since the first century of the Christian era, and was almost entirely unopposed until the 1500’s. For more information, see http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm. Historical information from outside the Bible does not prove what is right, but humility would suggest that we should think twice before concluding that the whole Christian Church got it wrong for about one and a half millennia — especially when it is seen that a strong Biblical case can be made for infant Baptism.

 

[Lamb]

ARE INFANTS IN NEED OF THE BLESSINGS THAT BAPTISM GIVES?

Psalm 51:5. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


3. Romans 8:7. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Ephesians 2:1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.


5. ARE INFANTS CAPABLE OF RECEIVING GOD’S BLESSINGS?

Luke 1:15. For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41-44. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.'"

* John the Baptist is an example of the Holy Spirit being active in an infant. Since Baptism is associated with receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), this indicates that infants can receive this benefit of Baptism. We are not to deny this gift to children, but are to bring them to Him for this blessing.

Luke 18:15-17. And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, 'Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.''

* Note: The Greek word translated “babies” in this passage (brephe) referred to children in the womb and newborns. These were babies, not older children.

* Note: Our Lord Jesus clearly states that infants can receive the kingdom of God. Since they were sinful from conception, and because that which is born of the flesh is flesh (which is hostile to God), this means that it must also be possible for infants to be born of the Spirit — otherwise, they could not receive the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-6. At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'' And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Matthew 21:15-16. But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'?"

* Note: Since we already know from God’s Word that infants can receive the Holy Spirit and can receive the kingdom of God, it should not surprise us that Jesus here refers to small children believing in Him (which could also be translated as having faith in Him) and children and infants praising Him. It is the Holy Spirit who creates faith, and the kingdom of God is received by faith.

* Note: Since Jesus says that small children can believe in Him, we can properly speak of small children who are believers in Christ — “Christians.” If they are capable of being Christians, they should not be denied Baptism.

* Note: This (small children being believers) is reflected in early Christian tomb inscriptions. The faith of infants is also referred to in the writings of important teachers in the early church (such as Augustine). Following are quotes from a few pastors and theologians about the faith of these little ones who believe in Christ:

 

[Lamb]

Dr. Martin Chemnitz: "Although we can neither understand nor explain in words what may be the nature of that action or operation of the Holy Spirit in infants who are baptized, nevertheless the Word of God leaves no doubt that such action and operation does occur. This which the Holy Spirit produces in infants we call faith and say that infants believe."

Dr. Johann Gerhard: "Even though we do not understand what all takes place with faith in the tiny, little children, yet we should hold the Word of God in such reverence that we do not deny what it so clearly witnesses to regarding the faith of little children."

Dr. David Scaer: "Surely, if infant brains can process human language and make sense out of their environment, they can process the divine language which proceeds from the mouth of God and calls to faith. It would be strange to assert that the words of the Holy Spirit lack the efficaciousness which human language has with infants."

Dr. William Arndt: “If the question is asked how an infant, unconscious of what is happening around it and unable to understand the meaning of Baptism, can believe, the answer is that not we but the Holy Spirit creates faith in the child receiving Holy Baptism and that He can perform that miracle and take up His dwelling in children as well as in people who are grown up.”

Dr. Robert Kolb: “The Word of God is powerful enough, when uttered, to change even a godless heart, which is no less responsive and helpless than any infant.”

Dr. Lowell Green: “God does not need human cooperation. In fact, faith is the setting aside of our own activity in order that God may work in us.”


* Note: Those who say that a lack of mature reason precludes infants from having faith are encouraged to consider what the Bible says about natural man’s reason and faith -- see, for example: 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, Romans 8:6-7, 1 Timothy 6:20-21. True wisdom does not precede faith but is given by God and received by the faithful as a gift. The reasoning of an unbelieving adult is not a prerequisite to faith, but rather fights against faith.

Additional resources:

A good discussion of infant Baptism and infant faith can also be found in the novel “The Hammer of God” by Bo Giertz (pages 214-227).

These topics are also addressed in the book “Scriptural Baptism,” which is written in the form of a dialogue between a Lutheran and a Baptist. The book can be read online at: http://www.geocities.com/resourcesforlutherans/infantBaptism.htm

Books well worth purchasing that have excellent discussions of this are “Baptism” by Dr. David P. Scaer (available from www.cph.org) and “Baptized into God’s Family” by Dr. A. Andrew Das (available from www.nph.net). For an outstanding classic treatment, see “A Comprehensive Exploration of Holy Baptism and Lord's Supper” by Johann Gerhard (available from www.cph.org).

6. ADDITIONAL COMMENTS REGARDING THE ADMINISTRATION OF BAPTISM

In Biblical accounts of Baptism, there was not a lengthy delay between conversion and Baptism (e.g. Acts 2, Acts 8:26-40, Acts 9:-17, Acts 22:1-16, Acts 16:33). They went hand in hand.

Biblical accounts of Baptism indicate that it was not necessary for it to be done publicly. The Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-40), Paul (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and the Philippian jailer and his household (Acts 16:33) were all baptized in private settings. The important thing about what Baptism is what God is doing — freely giving us His gifts as He makes us His children.

 

[Arsenios]

I seem to remember some emphasis being placed elsewhere on "baptism doth also now save us".

Is my recollection faulty?"


[MENTION=486]Arsenios[/MENTION] said: "Not that I recollect"...

(OK - So I edited my non-recollection from "recall" to "recollect"... Poetic license I say!)

There is much that can be said about Baptism and vast lists can be compiled about all its various properties...

But there is only ONE question I would ask of the Sola folks:

Does the Bible affirm or deny that we are baptized into Christ?

Then if, as one must, one affirms the above, then:

Whom does Christ command to DO Baptism?

And the answer is the 11 Apostles...

And then when we ask: "Who Baptizes?"

And the Answer is Christ...

Christ Baptizes with His Own Body, the Ekklesia...

The very hands that immerse you in the Baptismal Waters of Regeneration are Christ's Hands...

And those very hands serve by doing Christ's Will in vessels of clay...

God Bless ya Bro!

Arsenios

 

[Josiah]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] in Post #3:



Me in Post #106:
"I seem to remember some emphasis being placed elsewhere on "baptism doth also now save us".

Is my recollection faulty?"


[MENTION=486]Arsenios[/MENTION] in Post #107:


[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] in Post #109:


[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] in Post #386:


==============================================================================================

In Post #237 in the "Can babies be conscious of their baptism? Thread", in response to my request in Post #236 in that same thread: "I therefore request of Lämmchen, to make it easy for all interested parties, that she either consolidate those thoughts from various locations regarding the baptism of babies, into a new Post, or provide links to the particular Posts in which she expressed those relevant thoughts", [MENTION=11]Lämmchen[/MENTION] supplied two sets of verses under the heading "WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM? "(please refer to that Post).

An explanation following the first set said:
* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

The explanation following the second set stated:
* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.

==============================================================================================

I thought it might be good to set the record straight.

Well, you extended FOUR "mentions" to me in one post.... but I have no clue what your point is and you asked me no questions, but I have no idea what is the function of even one of those FOUR mentions to me in this one post.

 

[atpollard]

Well, you extended FOUR "mentions" to me in one post.... but I have no clue what your point is and you asked me no questions, but I have no idea what is the function of even one of those FOUR mentions to me in this one post.

Maybe he just likes you.

 

[Pedrito]

I am finding two things confusing:

==============================================================================================

Firstly:

In Post #192 I asked Lämmchen to clarify what precise benefit(s) a baby receives from God as a result of being baptised, that he or she would have missed out on had they not been baptised. (I.e consolidate the thoughts she said she had expressed in various Posts.)

In Post #237 Lämmchen responded to that request and provided a comprehensive list of benefits associated with baptism in general.

In Post #239 I thanked Lämmchen for her response, even though the list was not baby-specific. I documented my understanding of what each verse she tendered, meant. (So any individual misunderstandings I had could be corrected.)

In Post #390 I quoted from Post #237, further acknowledging Lämmchen’s former positive response to my request.

Then in Post #391 Lämmchen asked [emphasis added to highlight what is confusing me]: What do you mean consolidate my thoughts from all the baptism threads? What exactly would you like me to answer? Is it pertaining to what you asked Josiah about "baptism saves"? You see, baptism is God's work, not ours because the wording is "be baptized" and that means something is being done to us. We aren't doing anything in baptism.”

I think Readers can understand my confusion.

(In case it wasn’t obvious, in Post #390 I was merely highlighting the internal inconsistency regarding baptism in general and baby baptism in particular, as presented by baby baptising adherents in relevant Posts.

Does baptism actually save? Yes it does. No it doesn’t.

That was all.)

==============================================================================================

Secondly:

It looks like that by trying to do the right thing, I have done something wrong somehow.

It pertains to the use of the “@” symbol in front of avatar names (if that is the correct nomenclature).

It has been my custom to acknowledge the author of information I quote or paraphrase, along with the Post number from which that information comes. I considered it important that people to be able to check the source and context of any extract or paraphrase I used. That has apparently not been a problem until now.

But I was wondering if I was actually not presenting those avatar names as I was supposed to.

I had noticed that “@” was being used as a prefix to avatar names by other Posters, and that that construction had even been used to address me directly.

So I thought that must be the appropriate thing to do. And thus I commenced conforming to what I thought was recognised practice.

Apparently my conclusion was incorrect. So I will return to my former (apparently safe) practice.


I have recommended elsewhere that new members be directed to a web page that contains all the relevant information they need to be aware of, including when to use the “@” symbol and when not to, the significance of the information presented at top right hand corner of each Post, and anything else that a newcomer might need to be aware of.

I hereby also request that I be directed to that page at this stage. I am assuming that such a page exists, and I apologise in advance if I have been advised of that page before and overlooked that guidance.

 

[Albion]

I am finding two things confusing:

==============================================================================================

Firstly:

In Post #192 I asked Lämmchen to clarify what precise benefit(s) a baby receives from God as a result of being baptised, that he or she would have missed out on had they not been baptised. (I.e consolidate the thoughts she said she had expressed in various Posts.)

In Post #237 Lämmchen responded to that request and provided a comprehensive list of benefits associated with baptism in general.

In Post #239 I thanked Lämmchen for her response, even though the list was not baby-specific. I documented my understanding of what each verse she tendered, meant. (So any individual misunderstandings I had could be corrected.)

In Post #390 I quoted from Post #237, further acknowledging Lämmchen’s former positive response to my request.

Then in Post #391 Lämmchen asked [emphasis added to highlight what is confusing me]: What do you mean consolidate my thoughts from all the baptism threads? What exactly would you like me to answer? Is it pertaining to what you asked Josiah about "baptism saves"? You see, baptism is God's work, not ours because the wording is "be baptized" and that means something is being done to us. We aren't doing anything in baptism.”

I think Readers can understand my confusion.

(In case it wasn’t obvious, in Post #390 I was merely highlighting the internal inconsistency regarding baptism in general and baby baptism in particular, as presented by baby baptising adherents in relevant Posts.

Does baptism actually save? Yes it does. No it doesn’t.

This is getting stale.

Who said that it saves? And where was that said?