Purgatory?

[Imalive]

Yes, DHoffmann, jumps back and forth. When I address the claim he makes that repentance is required for salvation and show that it is not, then he switches to after salvation, which I have always stated is an effect that comes after salvation.
Bottom line:
No works are required from God for God to extend unmerited favor. It is God's choice, always. Requiring repentance for salvation to be extended means that grace is removed and a merit-based salvation is created. That is never taught, despite the misuse of Acts 2 to state that repentance comes before salvation. Very simply, spiritually dead persons cannot repent until God makes their spirit come to life.

People can depart from the faith. Demas left.
Gods love is not unconditional. If someone is saved and the fruit is good and later they get false grace teaching and fall in unforgiveness or whatever, they have to repent or they're not saved.

 

[Andrew]

Come menno, lets take this to lams thread

 

[Imalive]

There was a pastor who died and visited hell and heaven. When he was raised from the dead he'd hide in the toilet if his wife and him had an argument. He had become afraid to sin.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Repentance is necessary and it is a grace from God and it is godly sorrow for one's sins.

+

No. Repentance is not a form of grace that can only be activated by humans. You castrate grace when you force works upon it. You and DHoffmann and imalive keep adding works to God's gift of grace. It's the very thing Paul condemns in his letter to the Galatians.

= :thinking:

 

[MoreCoffee]

=

= :thinking:

It looked like a bad tempered rant to me that really didn't address a single word of what I wrote. It seems to me that what I wrote (Repentance is necessary and it is a grace from God and it is godly sorrow for one's sins.) is in fact taken from scripture. But what would I know eh?

Thanks for noticing the facts ImaginaryDay2, they probably are not being noticed by some others.

 

[MennoSota]

It looked like a bad tempered rant to me that really didn't address a single word of what I wrote. It seems to me that what I wrote (Repentance is necessary and it is a grace from God and it is godly sorrow for one's sins.) is in fact taken from scripture. But what would I know eh?

Thanks for noticing the facts ImaginaryDay2, they probably are not being noticed by some others.

It's not from scripture MC, but then again you prefer the papal bull.

Grace is unmerited favor, not favor if and only if a person repents.

Your claim is an oxymoron, since what you claim is not grace at all.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

It's not from scripture MC, but then again you prefer the papal bull.

Grace is unmerited favor, not favor if and only if a person repents.

Your claim is an oxymoron, since what you claim is not grace at all.

Definition of grace
1 a :unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b :a virtue coming from God
c :a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grace

Please note definition 1:b
Repentance is most assuredly a "grace" by which man experiences godly sorrow for sin.

 

[Imalive]

Oh His kindness leads to repentance, I thought His grace.

 

[Imalive]

I was looking up that text and found this.

Acts 2:40: “He pressed his case with many other arguments and kept pleading with them, ‘Save yourselves from this perverse generation!’” (Jewish New Testament).

Hey the things I find when I look up a text on internet:

https://www.charismanews.com/culture/67942-gay-icon-little-richard-renounces-homosexuality

 

[MennoSota]

Please note definition 1:b
Repentance is most assuredly a "grace" by which man experiences godly sorrow for sin.

Repentance is not "a grace".

Repentance is an effect of grace. It can also be an effect of the gift of faith.

Repentance does not equal grace. It is not "a grace." When MC makes that comment it comes from his church, not from scripture. His church is wrong. I repeat. His church is wrong. No matter how much faith he places in his church, his church is wrong.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Repentance is not "a grace".

Repentance is an effect of grace.

If repentance is not a grace from God then is it a work, an obedience, like obeying the commandments that Jesus gave? You appear to be defeating your own argument.

 

[MennoSota]

If repentance is not a grace from God then is it a work, an obedience, like obeying the commandments that Jesus gave? You appear to be defeating your own argument.

Correct, repentance is a work of man, but it is not a part of God's quickening.
Because...repentance comes after God has quickened (made alive) a person. It is an effect.
The Greek word, charis, translated as grace in English, means unmerited favor.
Grace comes first. It is the work and action of God.
Repentance comes later. It is the work and response of man to a holy God.
Repentance does not equal salvation. Repentance is not a means to salvation. Repentance is not "a grace."
Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is what God extends first as he makes us alive in Christ.
Sorry, MC, but you are confused.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Correct, repentance is a work of man, but it is not a part of God's quickening.
..

Then why does the Westminster Confession of Faith - the foundation confession of many Presbyterian denominations - say

CHAPTER 15
Of Repentance unto Life

1. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.

2. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments.

3. Although repentance be not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ; yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.

4. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.

5. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.

6. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof; upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy; so, he that scandaliseth his brother, or the church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession, and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended, who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.​

Are you sure you know what Calvinists teach?

 

[Imalive]

God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Repentance is that you humble yourself. Thats why its so easy for small kids.

 

[MennoSota]

Then why does the Westminster Confession of Faith - the foundation confession of many Presbyterian denominations - say

CHAPTER 15
Of Repentance unto Life

1. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.

2. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments.

3. Although repentance be not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ; yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.

4. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.

5. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.

6. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof; upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy; so, he that scandaliseth his brother, or the church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession, and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended, who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.​

Are you sure you know what Calvinists teach?

MC, you are bound in chains by church dogma, yet fail to read scripture.
Sola Scriptura
Here is an important disclaimer from your quotation:
"Although repentance be not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ..."
Not the cause of the pardon.
My point is made. Throw away your reliance on your church and rely upon God and his word. Only look at church commentaries after you have thoroughly observed, questioned and interpreted God's word for yourself. This is the pathway to maturity in fellowship with God. Meet with God, not your church clergy.

 

[Imalive]

Correct, repentance is a work of man, but it is not a part of God's quickening.
Because...repentance comes after God has quickened (made alive) a person. It is an effect.
The Greek word, charis, translated as grace in English, means unmerited favor.
Grace comes first. It is the work and action of God.
Repentance comes later. It is the work and response of man to a holy God.
Repentance does not equal salvation. Repentance is not a means to salvation. Repentance is not "a grace."
Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is what God extends first as he makes us alive in Christ.
Sorry, MC, but you are confused.

If He has made us alive there is no need to repent. Sinners are called to repentance.


I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[Lamb]

If He has made us alive there is no need to repent. Sinners are called to repentance.


I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

He has made us alive but don't you still sin daily and daily repent of those sins?

 

[Albion]

It's undeniable that born again Christians do sin after justification. But those who insist that that is not the case never get out of the realm of theory.

It's fine to interpret some verse as saying the opposite, but then how do the same people explain that redeemed people still are guilty of losing their tempers, thinking ill of a neighbor who's done something irritating, failing to do all that could be done to help a stranger in distress, speeding on the highway, etc? They do not think of these things as "sins," but they are. A sin is any falling short of God's perfection, and we all do something or other, at least at times, that fits the description here.

 

[Imalive]

He has made us alive but don't you still sin daily and daily repent of those sins?

Yes. I mean if someone is a total unbeliever living a sinful lifestyle and God makes him alive, that means his sins are then washed away. He doesnt need to repent of those past sins after God made him alive. That happens before God makes him alive/ saves him or at the same moment.
The robber at the cross got saved when He asked Him to remember him. It's one thing. He wasn't first saved, then after 5 mins said sorry.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Lamb]

Yes. I mean if someone is a total unbeliever living a sinful lifestyle and God makes him alive, that means his sins are then washed away. He doesnt need to repent of those past sins after God made him alive. That happens before God makes him alive/ saves him or at the same moment.

Continued repentance for the same sin of the past is not trusting in God's forgiveness so no, we don't do that.