Why I'm Pro-Life

[Tigger]

Contraception too was opposed by most Protestant denominations until the first quarter of the 20th century. Now the use of artificial contraceptives attracts absolutely no attention in most denominations including some that are confessional.

Oh so now you're bringing up how 'Protestants' use artificial contraceptives instead of discussing the OP of "Why I'm pro-life". Seems like someone has an agenda :thinking:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Oh so now you're bringing up how 'Protestants' use artificial contraceptives instead of discussing the OP of "Why I'm pro-life". Seems like someone has an agenda :thinking:

Everybody has agendas including you. So don't be upset if I have my agendas and they differ from yours. Nevertheless the remark about contraception is directly connected to pro-life Christianity. If one believes that life starts at conception and artificial means of preventing conception are similar to artificial means of ending life (or at least its possibility of arising from a sex act) then supporting artificial contraception is opposed to pro-life Christian values. Historically Christian teaching presented artificial contraception as wicked and that stopped being so for many Protestant denominations in the first quarter of the 20th century. Why I am pro-life includes why I say artificial contraception is still wicked despite changing views in the world and in some religious circles about artificial contraception.

 

[Tigger]

You can't end a life that didn't start in the first place.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You can't end a life that didn't start in the first place.

"You can't end a life that didn't start in the first place." So some say. Some who support abortion in the early phases of pregnancy say something like that too. You may think of artificial contraception as okay or maybe as morally neutral but those who were Christians in past centuries thought of it as wicked. They had good reasons for their assessment of it.

 

[Tigger]

"You can't end a life that didn't start in the first place." So some say. Some who support abortion in the early phases of pregnancy say something like that too. You may think of artificial contraception as okay or maybe as morally neutral but those who were Christians in past centuries thought of it as wicked. They had good reasons for their assessment of it.

My statement still remains true.

 

[MoreCoffee]

My statement still remains true.

You think it remains true in the context of artificial contraception. I do not. I think it skirts the truth entirely.

 

[Tigger]

You think it remains true in the context of artificial contraception. I do not. I think it skirts the truth entirely.

I'm not concerned with opinions.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm not concerned with opinions.

That's nice. Nor am I.

 

[Josiah]

"You can't end a life that didn't start in the first place." So some say.

I agree.

Of course, I'm defining human life a bit biologically, not in terms of "POTENTIAL" or "WORTHINESS" or "WANTEDNESS" or political POWER. I realize that nearly 100% of the time, a female past puberty has the POTENTIAL for new separate life. But I would argue that until conception, there is no life - only zillions of eggs and sperm cells on the planet and yes a lot of possibility.

While this thread is not about contraception (and please, Philip, don't hijack it to that - you already have a current active thread on that), contraception - whether by the new Pope Approved Birth Control Method or any other means of preventing conception, ALL these birth control methods have one thing in common: They are all about having sex but not conceiving, preventing the sex from resulting in life. The manifold methods all have different ways of accomplishing that, but they all have that as their purpose, goal and effect (to varying degrees of success). Having sex but preventing life to result is not the same as purposely aborting a baby.


Thank you.


- Josiah



.

 

[user1234]

Wonder what the proper view is on a person having an operation in order to keep from being able to get pregnant (or cause pregnancy)?
Perhaps 'pro-life' does need to be more clearly defined for this thread.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Wonder what the proper view is on a person having an operation in order to keep from being able to get pregnant (or cause pregnancy)?
Perhaps 'pro-life' does need to be more clearly defined for this thread.

Some pro life people are very selective about which lives they are pro for.

 

[user1234]

Some pro life people are very selective about which lives they are pro for.

That's why I suggested a better definition for this threads purposes. It's easy to condemn when you dont know the meaning.
It could just as easily be said that some ppl who call themselves 'pro-choice' are really just anti-life.
These kind of vague categorizations and condemnations are counter-productive.
If the OP was clearer about their definition of pro-life it might help avoid that.

*Editted with apologies, reading two threads that ran upon similar topics, I lost my place for a moment. The editted part could apply in either one, but would be more appropriate in the other. Sorry. Thx. Snerfle

 

[Stravinsk]

Everybody has agendas including you. So don't be upset if I have my agendas and they differ from yours. Nevertheless the remark about contraception is directly connected to pro-life Christianity. If one believes that life starts at conception and artificial means of preventing conception are similar to artificial means of ending life (or at least its possibility of arising from a sex act) then supporting artificial contraception is opposed to pro-life Christian values. Historically Christian teaching presented artificial contraception as wicked and that stopped being so for many Protestant denominations in the first quarter of the 20th century. Why I am pro-life includes why I say artificial contraception is still wicked despite changing views in the world and in some religious circles about artificial contraception.

"Artificial" - in the sense you are using it and the context in which it applies is something of a misnomer. Using a condom, be it a modern one made of rubber or an ancient one made of some animal skin is no more artificial than other pregnancy preventative methods that have to do with timing of sex during her cycle to times when she is least fertile, or to the use of certain herbs that discourage pregnancy when she is.

If we really wanted to extend your definition of "pro life" to that which you have included, then we might as well throw in celibacy and the priesthood as opposed to it. Simply by refusing marriage and sexual relations with the opposite sex - by your own extension of the definition they are "pro death", since they refuse to procreate at all and thus continue life.

 

[Lamb]

Here is what the Wikipedia states for the origin of the term "Pro-Life"

The description "pro-life" was adopted by the right-to-life (anti-abortion) movement in the United States following the Supreme Court 1973 decision Roe v. Wade,[1] which held that a woman may terminate her pregnancy prior to the viability of the fetus outside of the womb and may also terminate her pregnancy "subsequent to viability ... for the preservation of the life or health of the mother."[8] The term "pro-life" was adopted instead of "anti-abortion" to highlight their proponents' belief that abortion is the taking of a human life, rather than an issue concerning the restriction of women's reproductive rights.[1] The first organized action was initiated by U.S. Catholic bishops who recommended in 1973 that the U.S. Constitution should be amended to ban abortion.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_pro-life_movement

 

[Josiah]

Some pro life people are very selective about which lives they are pro for.

Some pro choice people are very selective about which lives have a choice. For example, obviously the preborn child has NO CHOICE whatsoever; he or she may be murdered with ZERO consideration to any choice whatsoever which the unborn child may have; it's actually a very "anti-choice" position - the one most impacted will have absolutely no choice whatsoever.

This position actually comes from the long slavery debate. Pro-choice people believed that wealthy, white men should have an unobstructed choice as to whether to own slaves. Obviously the slave was given NO choice AT ALL in the matter. The pro-choice mentality hinges on someone being entirely deprived of any choice whatsoever.


- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.

Percentage Reason
.001% The pregnancy resulted from an incestuous relationship
.065% The woman's life was endangered by the pregnancy
.085% The woman was raped
.288% The woman's physical health was threatened by the pregnancy
.294% The woman's psychological health was threatened by the pregnancy
.666% There was a serious fetal abnormality
6.268% The woman aborted for social or economic reasons
92.330% No reason (elective)



In 2014, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.

Percentage Reason
<0.5% Victim of rape
3% Fetal health problems
4% Physical health problems
4% Would interfere with education or career
7% Not mature enough to raise a child
8% Don't want to be a single mother
19% Done having children
23% Can't afford a baby
25% Not ready for a child
6% Other



MUCH "spin" is given by the pro-abortion side that these mothers have experienced rape and incest.... or the pregnancy will surely kill the mother. But as we see, such "reasons" are virtually non-existent and indeed exceedingly tiny. Those who will identify ANY reasons WHATSOEVER simply note that they don't want the child - they don't want the responsibility, the inconvenience, the cost: they don't want the baby. Thus.....

 

[Josiah]

:bump:

 

[Albion]

Simply as slogans, 'pro-life' makes a lot more sense than 'pro-choice,' doesn't it? I mean, what does 'pro-choice' mean, anyway? At times, I would like to strangle my brother in law, so going through with it would be my right, I guess, given the principle of pro-choice. That would be to exercise my "choice" in the matter, after all.

 

[Josiah]

Simply as slogans, 'pro-life' makes a lot more sense than 'pro-choice,' doesn't it? I mean, what does 'pro-choice' mean, anyway? At times, I would like to strangle my brother in law, so going through with it would be my right, I guess, given the principle of pro-choice. That would be to exercise my "choice" in the matter, after all.

"Pro-Choice" means the one with the power can do whatever with the one who doesn't. The term comes lock, stock and barrel from the slavery debate. But did the slave have any choice in the matter? The one who would be enslaved, the one impacted by this, did they have ANY choice? Nope. It's how this slogan works. Pro-choice just means the one who will be killed has no choice.

 

[Imalive]

nm