Why do some Protestants put on rock concerts?

[Rens]

What do you go to a meeting for?

To be entertained?

To be welcomed and liked?

To worship God in a community of God's people?

Is it about meeting your expectations? really?

I go to church to meet God. Most of the time we have 2 or 3 songs from youtube lol.

 

[tango]

What do you go to a meeting for?

To be entertained?

To be welcomed and liked?

To worship God in a community of God's people?

Is it about meeting your expectations? really?

This is a really good point.

If we go to church to be entertained we might as well go to the movies or a gig. The flip side is that it's easy to assume that the people who don't take a part in the service are there to be entertained when perhaps they are reflecting rather than being entertained.

Being welcomed and liked is nice but shouldn't be the primary purpose of church. Too far that way turns church into little more than a social club that potentially gives little more than lip service to Jesus. Too far the other way and the risk is that there's little to no fellowship because people don't welcome and care for each other. You can love someone without liking them much but fellowship and mutual prayer support is difficult if people don't care for and trust each other enough to be comfortable sharing their concerns.

Worshiping God sounds like a great thing on the face of it but that leads right into the question of "what is worship?". One church I attended for a time used to stream video from IHOP in Kansas City and play videos from Bethel. There were people there who seemed to get something out of it but to me it was just mindlessly repetitive drivel - the last day I attended that church I walked out of the service after 10 minutes and the only way I can describe how I felt as I left was contaminated. To me it fell foul of the warning against mindless and vain repetitions but after one service (before I concluded I just couldn't take any more of it) one person there said that after 15 minutes (I'm not exaggerating, I timed it) of singing the same line over and over and over he still wanted more. To at least some people there what they were doing was worship, to me they might as well have been singing "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna".

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well, let's be realistic (or not...). Sometimes, yes. If we're honest about it, we do come with our preconceived notions and expectations. It's how we respond when our expectations take precedence in the 'meeting' that may be at issue. If I take exception to the 'concert', I'll typically have a seat, and wait for the rest of the service. I suspect it might be the same for the modern Evangelical attending a very liturgical service - not what they expect (i.e. preferences), but hopefully, that doesn't take precedence over the word of God being preached.

The preached word is, generally speaking, lesser in value than the reading of the holy scriptures insofar as it represents the views of the one preaching (which may be very godly views or not depending on all sorts of things) and lesser than the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist which is the Word made flesh. But some denominations and some meetings place emphasis on the preaching more than anything else and that sets the tone for what one expects. My opinion on the matter is that long sermons can be edifying and they can be the opposite. But the holy scriptures, the prayers of the Church, and the sacraments have enduring value that sermons may not have.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I go to church to meet God. Most of the time we have 2 or 3 songs from youtube lol.

You said elsewhere that the meeting you attend is small, only a few people. YouTube may help with the singing

 

[MoreCoffee]

This is a really good point.

If we go to church to be entertained we might as well go to the movies or a gig. The flip side is that it's easy to assume that the people who don't take a part in the service are there to be entertained when perhaps they are reflecting rather than being entertained.

Being welcomed and liked is nice but shouldn't be the primary purpose of church. Too far that way turns church into little more than a social club that potentially gives little more than lip service to Jesus. Too far the other way and the risk is that there's little to no fellowship because people don't welcome and care for each other. You can love someone without liking them much but fellowship and mutual prayer support is difficult if people don't care for and trust each other enough to be comfortable sharing their concerns.

Worshiping God sounds like a great thing on the face of it but that leads right into the question of "what is worship?". One church I attended for a time used to stream video from IHOP in Kansas City and play videos from Bethel. There were people there who seemed to get something out of it but to me it was just mindlessly repetitive drivel - the last day I attended that church I walked out of the service after 10 minutes and the only way I can describe how I felt as I left was contaminated. To me it fell foul of the warning against mindless and vain repetitions but after one service (before I concluded I just couldn't take any more of it) one person there said that after 15 minutes (I'm not exaggerating, I timed it) of singing the same line over and over and over he still wanted more. To at least some people there what they were doing was worship, to me they might as well have been singing "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna".

I think of Church as the gathering of God's faithful people and not as a collection of liturgical (or non-liturgical) actions but I admit that when one is in the church building, for the mass, the liturgy matters and what is said and done in God's name is important to me. Nevertheless I gather with the faithful because it is God who calls me (and all of us) to the gathering. I wait on God to hear the holy scriptures read in the community of the faithful and to hear the homily and the prayers and to receive Christ in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. I am minded to call the whole liturgy the work of worship commanded by God and in which God is present regardless of how aesthetically pleasing the liturgy appears as it is carried out by the faithful in the meeting. I remember that in the old testament God took abiding and profound interest in the way he was worshipped. There is the story of Aaron's sons who acted contrary to what was commanded and died. After their death the scripture records this 'By those who come near Me I will be treated as holy, And before all the people I will be honoured.' [SUP]Lev 10:3 NASB[/SUP]

Being welcomed and liked is part of being a member of the people of God so it is not trivial and to desire it is not wicked and participating in the liturgy with decorum and concentration is part of worshipping God worthily (that is not to say that a parent with a naughty child is not worshipping God worthily) and hearing and/or seeing something in the mass that is impressive and pleasing to the senses is a good thing whenever it is done for the benefit of the faithful in the presence of God. So entertainment, being liked, worshipping God, and having expectations met are all good whenever they are godly and they are all wicked when they are not.

 

[Josiah]

This is a really good point.

If we go to church to be entertained we might as well go to the movies or a gig. The flip side is that it's easy to assume that the people who don't take a part in the service are there to be entertained when perhaps they are reflecting rather than being entertained.

Being welcomed and liked is nice but shouldn't be the primary purpose of church. Too far that way turns church into little more than a social club that potentially gives little more than lip service to Jesus. Too far the other way and the risk is that there's little to no fellowship because people don't welcome and care for each other. You can love someone without liking them much but fellowship and mutual prayer support is difficult if people don't care for and trust each other enough to be comfortable sharing their concerns.

Worshiping God sounds like a great thing on the face of it but that leads right into the question of "what is worship?". One church I attended for a time used to stream video from IHOP in Kansas City and play videos from Bethel. There were people there who seemed to get something out of it but to me it was just mindlessly repetitive drivel - the last day I attended that church I walked out of the service after 10 minutes and the only way I can describe how I felt as I left was contaminated. To me it fell foul of the warning against mindless and vain repetitions but after one service (before I concluded I just couldn't take any more of it) one person there said that after 15 minutes (I'm not exaggerating, I timed it) of singing the same line over and over and over he still wanted more. To at least some people there what they were doing was worship, to me they might as well have been singing "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna".

Very good points....


Of course, a service in a Greek Orthodox or Roman Catholic or Anglican or Lutheran church - while certainly not a rock concert - CAN be viewed as and received as very entertaining. And (IMO) the artistic quality of such can easily be viewed as FAR, FAR more advanced and entertaining than what might be found at the "contemporary service" of The Church of What's Happening Now as the band leads, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO - God's not dead!" (that refrain repeated 12 times lead by a 16 year old boy who could not hit a note if his life depended on it and his brother on lead guitar who just finished his fourth guitar lesson). The possibility of something just being "entertaining" is not limited to what goes on at The Church of What's Happening Now.


IMO No offense to anyone intended (not even boys who can't sing or play guitar).


- Josiah

 

[~Jo~]

In our church they need something to make it worth going, maybe its all about get bums on seats.. I dunno its just a thought..

 

[MoreCoffee]

In our church they need something to make it worth going, maybe its all about get bums on seats.. I dunno its just a thought..

Didn't you say somewhere that you don't go to church meetings any more?

It isn't a sin to be entertaining in a church meeting as long as one does it out of love for God and for the benefit of the faithful.

 

[Brighten04]

What do you go to a meeting for?

To be entertained?

To be welcomed and liked?

To worship God in a community of God's people?

Is it about meeting your expectations? really?

I go to fellowship with other believers so I pick to worship God in a community of God's people.

 

[tango]

I think of Church as the gathering of God's faithful people and not as a collection of liturgical (or non-liturgical) actions but I admit that when one is in the church building, for the mass, the liturgy matters and what is said and done in God's name is important to me. Nevertheless I gather with the faithful because it is God who calls me (and all of us) to the gathering. I wait on God to hear the holy scriptures read in the community of the faithful and to hear the homily and the prayers and to receive Christ in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. I am minded to call the whole liturgy the work of worship commanded by God and in which God is present regardless of how aesthetically pleasing the liturgy appears as it is carried out by the faithful in the meeting. I remember that in the old testament God took abiding and profound interest in the way he was worshipped. There is the story of Aaron's sons who acted contrary to what was commanded and died. After their death the scripture records this 'By those who come near Me I will be treated as holy, And before all the people I will be honoured.' [SUP]Lev 10:3 NASB[/SUP]

Personally I don't worry too much about exactly what it said and done as long as it comes from a desire to honor God. In Old Testament times only the high priest was allowed to go into the holy of holies but when the curtain was torn it meant we could all come into God's presence. I can't help thinking God would rather we pray in our own natural language and pray from the heart, than pray in something unlike our own language and do little more than read it from a book.

In the Old Testament were numerous rules and regulations but in the New Testament Jesus summed them all up with "love God, love each other". He upset the Pharisees by not following the very letter of the law, as they expected.

Being welcomed and liked is part of being a member of the people of God so it is not trivial and to desire it is not wicked and participating in the liturgy with decorum and concentration is part of worshipping God worthily (that is not to say that a parent with a naughty child is not worshipping God worthily) and hearing and/or seeing something in the mass that is impressive and pleasing to the senses is a good thing whenever it is done for the benefit of the faithful in the presence of God. So entertainment, being liked, worshipping God, and having expectations met are all good whenever they are godly and they are all wicked when they are not.

I'm not sure about the "wicked when they are not" bit. Could you elaborate on that - I may be misunderstanding what you're saying here.

 

[tango]

Very good points....


Of course, a service in a Greek Orthodox or Roman Catholic or Anglican or Lutheran church - while certainly not a rock concert - CAN be viewed as and received as very entertaining. And (IMO) the artistic quality of such can easily be viewed as FAR, FAR more advanced and entertaining than what might be found at the "contemporary service" of The Church of What's Happening Now as the band leads, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO - God's not dead!" (that refrain repeated 12 times lead by a 16 year old boy who could not hit a note if his life depended on it and his brother on lead guitar who just finished his fourth guitar lesson). The possibility of something just being "entertaining" is not limited to what goes on at The Church of What's Happening Now.


IMO No offense to anyone intended (not even boys who can't sing or play guitar).


- Josiah

An interesting article I read, which was titled something about Satan infiltrating the church through worship, made an interesting point that it's fairly common for someone wanting to play in the band in church to audition to show how well they can play the instrument but never face any questions about their walk with God, their prayer life, their struggles and triumphs and so on. If the purpose is to entertain then musical talent and showmanship is of high importance. If the purpose is to lead the congregation into worship of the Almighty then surely it's better to have a passable guitarist who walks closely with God, than a brilliant guitarist who only ever prays to ask God to get him out of the latest tight spot.

 

[JPPT1974]

There are some that are old fashioned. And some that love rock. It is that it is about difference of opinions!

 

[~Jo~]

Didn't you say somewhere that you don't go to church meetings any more?

It isn't a sin to be entertaining in a church meeting as long as one does it out of love for God and for the benefit of the faithful.

Yes your right I did say that. So what's your point then, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on things here. Fine then I will say nothing from now on. Also I don't remember ever saying it was a sin to play rock music in church. But maybe that would get people in there.. I don't really care since as you pointed out I don't go there....

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes your right I did say that. So what's your point then, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on things here. Fine then I will say nothing from now on. Also I don't remember ever saying it was a sin to play rock music in church play would gets people in there I don't really care since as you pointed out I don't go there....

I was just curious about why you wrote "In our church they need something to make it worth going, maybe its all about get bums on seats.. I dunno its just a thought..". It sounded like you were going to meetings

 

[~Jo~]

I was just curious about why you wrote "In our church they need something to make it worth going, maybe its all about get bums on seats.. I dunno its just a thought..". It sounded like you were going to meetings

Not a chance would I go. I have my reasons and I'm not prepared to tell anyone. So I will leave it at that..

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not a chance would I go. I have my reasons and I'm not prepared to tell anyone. So I will leave it at that.. ��

Try a different denomination - there are usually plenty to choose from.

 

[Brighten04]

Not a chance would I go. I have my reasons and I'm not prepared to tell anyone. So I will leave it at that.. ��

Don't worry too much about it. God knows where you are. Sometimes we get churched out. I went through a period of time when I quit going to church. But our Father came and got me. LOL.He will come and get you too, 'cause He loves you that much.

 

[~Jo~]

Try a different denomination - there are usually plenty to choose from.

Why should I try something else I was brought up in the christrian faith and baptised into it, and at my age I really am not going to change now just because I dont go to church to sing hymns and pray in church, I can do that right here in the comfort of my own home., and I really don't need others to tell me I should change now thanks but no thanks. Ye I could become a catholic, or a pagan or an atheist. I'm sure that would please you ..or not..I don't need a priest to read from a book, to tell me how to behave or be nice.or whatever ...I have been doing that all my life and wont change now....Maybe you should try to understand other people..anyway that's me done .

 

[~Jo~]

Don't worry too much about it. God knows where you are. Sometimes we get churched out. I went through a period of time when I quit going to church. But our Father came and got me. LOL.He will come and get you too, 'cause He loves you that much.

Thanks but I'm not worried about it I let that go years ago and wont go back now until I'm dead. and you are right I am well and truly churched out...

 

[Brighten04]

Thanks but I'm not worried about it I let that go years ago and wont go back now until I'm dead. and you are right I am well and truly churched out...

I feel you sis. This song (lyrics) speak to the heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYU5aGQV6j0