Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[brightfame52]

Sure, God elects/predestines etc in the 2nd Person of the Godhead. I can back that up with Scripture, but can you show me where God justifies us in eternity apart from faith? Or I suppose we are now already glorified and have been given rewards? (2Cor 5:10)

You really have fallen off the wagon, how can a person have faith before they exist ? You are in unbelief, you deny that God justified the people Christ died for, before their act of faith. Thats unbelief and Justification by works !

 

[Lamb]

I was referring to 'objective justification', another construct of man.

It's not a construct of man.

Refer back to the verse I gave:
Romans 3:23-24
"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Do you deny this verse?

You brought up in another post about unbelief... those who don't believe are actually rejecting the Savior, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. That's why they don't have salvation. That's why even though God declares all to be justified, that not all have salvation, only those who believe.

 

[Albion]

You confused, you dont believe in objective Justification but legal justification. They are practically the same thing. This is what I mean by objective Justification, that the ones Christ died for are justified objectively, without experiencing it, they are Just the objects of Gods legal justification, wherein He Justified them without their knowing it, by what Christ did in putting away their sins before His Law and Justice, and He counts them righteous on that basis alone.

Now do you believe what I just said, yes or no ?

No.

It's contrary to the Bible.

That said, it's now your turn. See if you can offer something substantial in support of your theory rather than doing what you usually do instead, which is 1) to turn it back onto the rest of the posters by immediately putting a question to them instead of answering what was requested of you, or else 2) to do nothing more than accuse the rest of the forum of "unbelief" for not agreeing with your heresy.





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[Josiah]

Inconsistency is a sure indication of false teachings and beliefs. You making God mutable, He Justifies one in eternity, in time unjustifies the person, then after the person does something, justifies them again.

This is nonsense.

God justifies the individual via Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. Your insistence on eliminating faith (Sola Fide) simply leads you to ever more error.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." The Cross provides the justification.... faith apprehends/embraces/applies that to the individual. It's the Cross AND faith, both are essential.

See posts 905 and 916.



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[prism]

You make God out to be doubleminded, not knowing what He wants to do, Justify a person from eternity, then turn around and unjustify him when born, then justify them again when they believe. Thats mass confusion

Again, you are misrepresenting me. Maybe you misrepresent God as well?

 

[prism]

You confused, you dont believe in objective Justification but legal justification. They are practically the same thing. This is what I mean by objective Justification, that the ones Christ died for are justified objectively, without experiencing it, they are Just the objects of Gods legal justification, wherein He Justified them without their knowing it, by what Christ did in putting away their sins before His Law and Justice, and He counts them righteous on that basis alone.

Now do you believe what I just said, yes or no ?

So you believe the whole world has been declared not guilty? On what basis? That Jesus died for the whole world? Good one.

 

[prism]

You are in unbelief, you deny that God justified the people Christ died for, before their act of faith.

I would be in belief if you can simply show me one verse that shows Jesus justifies a person before their entrance into this world, does He also regenerate them before their entrance as well?

btw, if you keep up with the personal attacks, I'll put you on 'ignore'.

 

[prism]

It's not a construct of man.

Refer back to the verse I gave:
Romans 3:23-24
"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Do you deny this verse?

You brought up in another post about unbelief... those who don't believe are actually rejecting the Savior, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. That's why they don't have salvation. That's why even though God declares all to be justified, that not all have salvation, only those who believe.

Here is how my translation reads...

Romans 3:23-24 KJV
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Being justified applies to those who have taken advantage of the grace which comes through the redemption found in Christ Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

No.

It's contrary to the Bible.

That said, it's now your turn. See if you can offer something substantial in support of your theory rather than doing what you usually do instead, which is 1) to turn it back onto the rest of the posters by immediately putting a question to them instead of answering what was requested of you, or else 2) to do nothing more than accuse the rest of the forum of "unbelief" for not agreeing with your heresy.





.

You say No, then thats unbelief !

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you are misrepresenting me. Maybe you misrepresent God as well?

No I am not, you doing it to yourself.

 

[brightfame52]

So you believe the whole world has been declared not guilty? On what basis? That Jesus died for the whole world? Good one.

Where did I say Jesus died for the whole world ? He died only for Gods elect, the whole world isnt Gods elect. So you the one being deceitful and misrepresenting me.

 

[brightfame52]

I would be in belief if you can simply show me one verse.
btw, if you keep up with the personal attacks, I'll put you on 'ignore'.

Ive shown you enough, but you in unbelief, showing you scripture truth cant help you at this point.

 

[Lamb]

Here is how my translation reads...

Romans 3:23-24 KJV
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Being justified applies to those who have taken advantage of the grace which comes through the redemption found in Christ Jesus.

Being justified refers to the "all have sinned". Since they all have sinned, all are also freely justified. That happens objectively, apart from us.

 

[brightfame52]

@Lamb

Being justified refers to the "all have sinned". Since they all have sinned, all are also freely justified.

Thats universalism, if all are freely Justified

 

[prism]

Being justified refers to the "all have sinned". Since they all have sinned, all are also freely justified. That happens objectively, apart from us.

Yes all have sinned. I still don't see where all have been justified though. (declared righteous)

 

[prism]

Ive shown you enough, but you in unbelief, showing you scripture truth cant help you at this point.

Agreed, showing me your interpretation won't cut it.

 

[prism]

Where did I say Jesus died for the whole world ? He died only for Gods elect, the whole world isnt Gods elect. So you the one being deceitful and misrepresenting me.

In post #940 you jumped on me for not holding to 'objective justification'.

 

[brightfame52]

Agreed, showing me your interpretation won't cut it.

Thats fine, I have seen enough of your post to conclude you in unbelief and deny the Justifying death of Christ.

 

[prism]

Thats fine, I have seen enough of your post to conclude you in unbelief and deny the Justifying death of Christ.

Still looking for that untwisted Scripture verse that says God justifies us in eternity apart from temporal faith.
zzzzz,... waiting.

As a matter of fact calling precedes justification and glorification follows justification.

Romans 8:30 KJV
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So are we born glorified as well as justified?

 

[brightfame52]

Still looking for that untwisted Scripture verse that says God justifies us in eternity apart from temporal faith.
zzzzz,... waiting.

As a matter of fact calling precedes justification and glorification follows justification.

Romans 8:30 KJV
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So are we born glorified as well as justified?

You have been shown enough, and by your responses, its seen you reject the Justifying blood of Christ, and condition Justification before God on the doings of man.