When it's time to put the pet down?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

How you people handle the cognitive dissonance of being a Christian and advocating for violence against animals and gun ownership, I will never understand.

 

[Frankj]

How you people handle the cognitive dissonance of being a Christian and advocating for violence against animals and gun ownership, I will never understand.

Have you considered that any perceived cognitive dissonance you see in others might be only a projection of your own dissonances so that you can see them without needing to see them as being your own?

Consider this: "When I look at the world I see myself". Meditate deeply on it, ask the Lord's help in doing so.

How long have you been vegetarian now? I made it ten years while I was a prodigal, before I realized how my motives for it were not what I told myself they were and became honest with myself about it and moved on.

Wishing you progress in your journey, and that your destination is clear.

 

[Edward429451]

How you people handle the cognitive dissonance of being a Christian and advocating for violence against animals and gun ownership, I will never understand.

I figured you would bring that out at some point, lol.

It's actually very easy and in both the OT and the NT.

(Do you mean that you gave up eating steak?) Never been hunting, wont eat meat because the animals suffer in death? Are you for real?

Leviticus 11:1-4
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.../KJV

So where does it say we shouldn't eat animals?

Since you're a Theist, let's get philosophical more than Biblical.
Riddle me this...
When a Tiger eats a man, does the Tiger become a man, or the man become the Tiger?

Even such a question points us to the word of God. Is that what animals are here for? To be our food? Not originally! But this world we live in is a fallen and corrupted world. and to eat animals was a needful thing for man to live in a corrupted world. So God told us we can eat the animals, but don't eat certain animals. So there is a right way and a wrong way, that's a given. But that scripture alone blows your theory out of the water. Nowhere did it speak of the suffering of the animal or say, don't make the animals suffer by eating them. God knew we would need a food source in animals.

Brother, with all due respect, grow up. You are believing a fantasy. Maybe more Bible and less philosophical books maybe?

I mean, you believe in God as a theist, right? Ok so do you believe it then? Or do you? It is unclear to me if you are really a Theist or not.

 

[Truth7t7]

How you people handle the cognitive dissonance of being a Christian and advocating for violence against animals and gun ownership, I will never understand.

Do you eat meat, beef, pork, chicken, fish, lamb, Etc Lucian, or are you a vegetarian?

 

[Edward429451]

How you people handle the cognitive dissonance of being a Christian and advocating for violence against animals and gun ownership, I will never understand.

Here's one from the NT too.
Acts 10:9-15
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common..../KJV


Verse 11 sounds sorta like a picnic cloth is spread out from heaven for Peter! Even though Peter had to kill and dress it.

And gun ownership is nothing out of the ordinary. Jesus Himself told His Disciples that if they didn't have a sword to sell their cloak and buy one. That's a huge statement! The cloak was their main piece of clothing and protected them from the elements of nature. It served as a coat and it was commonly used as a sort of, sleeping bag. So if Jesus would have them to sell their cloak for a sword, then it must be mighty important, wouldn't you think?

Luke 22:36
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..../KJV

Now they did not have AR15's or 44 Magnums back them, so they used swords and bows & arrows. There is too many to not be Un-Armed! We hunt with Guns and feed our Families. We protect our Families from the evil in this world.

So I would suggest that you wait and consider what you have said more closely and ponder those passages of scripture about both eating animals and weapon ownership. I was lucky, my dad liked guns so got all of us kids shooting very early and there wasn't people saying, oh eating animals is mean...owning guns is mean...So I have a good handle on it.
I was raised with loaded guns all over the house, and there was 4 of us kids. Want to know how many times someone was shot accidently? Zero. Want to know how many accidents went bang in the house? Zero.
So when I started having kids, we had loaded guns all over the house.
How many tragedies to us raising kids with loaded guns all over? Zero.
Familiarity breeds competency so I taught my kids.

You have kids? Do you think that by you not owning guns or keeping any in your house that you will keep your kids safe from gun violence and accidents? No way my friend. WHat happens when your kid is on a sleep over at a friends house, and tthe friens pulls out his dad's 9mm pistol from dad's sock drawer? Will they be safe then?

What gun safety education will your kids have picked up by themselves? Hollywood movies? I don't think they will be safe or know how to react to when their friend pulls out their dad's pistol.

There is no safety in ignorance my friend. You can't keep kids safe from guns by not owning them. There is no safety in ignorance. They must be taught how to be safe with all guns. There are four rules to Gun Safety (Google them). You can not teach kids the four rules of gun safety without having a gun. See what I mean?

Maybe your Wife says you are not allowed to own a gun. You want to love and respect her and I get that. But consider that, we are in peace time right now, so the women are pretty much in charge and this is ok during peace time. But the moment that shtf she will hand those rein of control right back to you so fast, make your head spin. She will say, Protect us...Feed us...You want to have an ace up your sleeve or not? Or will you say, I wasn't allowed to have a gun sweetheart...??
You can't do that! You can't make excuses! It's your duty as a man to protect your Family and to provide for your Family. How will you protect them without a gun? How would you feed them if the power grid goes down so you can't buy food at a grocery store? You would be up the creek without a paddle!

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

But this world we live in is a fallen and corrupted world. and to eat animals was a needful thing for man to live in a corrupted world

Why? Why would anything be a needful thing for an omnipotent God? This is not even explainable through the feeble "free will argument" (that I don't believe in, but am willing to grant for argument's sake). How does the fact that humans have free will result in a need to eat animals? If God was able to restrict the humans' free will in regards to eating animals prior to the the flood, why would it be necessary for humans to eat animals post-flood? What changed in Noah and his sons' DNA that required them to eat animals and why did that change occur? Was God unable to stop said change from occurring? If so, then He is not all-powerful. Was He able to stop it from occurring, but not willing to? Then He was not all-good because no good God would simply allow animal suffering for no reason whatsoever.

I mean, you believe in God as a theist, right? Ok so do you believe it then? Or do you? It is unclear to me if you are really a Theist or not.

I believe in God as He presents Himself as light without shadow, and such a God would never condone animal suffering.

Do you eat meat, beef, pork, chicken, fish, lamb, Etc Lucian, or are you a vegetarian?

I do. Due to personal problems (health and financial), I am unable to live a vegan lifestyle.

 

[Edward429451]

Why? Why would anything be a needful thing for an omnipotent God. This is not even explainable through the feeble "free will argument" (that I don't believe in, but am willing to grant for argument's sake). How does the fact that humans have free will result in a need to eat animals? If God was able to restrict the humans' free will in regards to eating animals prior to the the flood, why would it be necessary for humans to eat animals post-flood? What changed in Noah and his sons' DNA that required them to eat animals and why did that change occur? Was God unable to stop said change from occurring? If so, then He is not all-powerful. Was He able to stop it from occurring, but not willing to? Then He was not all-good because no good God would simply allow animal suffering for no reason whatsoever.

You have demonstrated that you do not pick up a bible and read it by your statements here.

I believe in God as He presents Himself as light without shadow, and such a God would never condone animal suffering.

How would you even know if you never pick up a bible for your self and read it? It wasn't supposed to be a world with animals suffering, but mankind, who had dominion over the world got himself into trouble and caused mankind to fall and a curse to come upon the earth as a result. But you wouldn't know this because you don't read.

So can I ask you on what do have faith as God? I'm not attacking your fith or saying you have no faith or anything of the sort. But you list yourself as a Theist and IIRC, that means that you do believe in a God or gods.

I do. Due to personal problems (health and financial), I am unable to live a vegan lifestyle.

You do eat meat. But you wont hunt or own a gun? You would make others do your dirty work for you, to kill and clean them for consumption? And at the same time, talk down to the same people who will go and kill the animal for you?
You do not make sense young man.

 

[Truth7t7]

I do. Due to personal problems (health and financial), I am unable to live a vegan lifestyle.

There ya go, I will be the hunter in the village and bring back the meat so Lucian can eat "Meat" due to his personal problems

Nothing better than a big Ole Elk steak on the plate, not to forget a big 24oz prime fatty boneless ribeye steak off the Barbque, or a nice back strap of venison "Good"!

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

You have demonstrated that you do not pick up a bible and read it by your statements here.

I've studied the Bible for several years. It is possible that I might have forgotten some things from the Old Testament. Do explain what you mean.

It wasn't supposed to be a world with animals suffering, but mankind, who had dominion over the world got himself into trouble and caused mankind to fall and a curse to come upon the earth as a result. But you wouldn't know this because you don't read.

I know about the curse. It doesn't logically follow that creatures would be cursed to consume each other's flesh due to humans disobeying God. It seems like a completely arbitrary consequence. It is irrational and unmerciful. Punishing anyone else for the disobedience of another is unjust by the very definition of justice. I am convinced that if someone harmed your loved ones and the judge offered to put his own son in jail instead of the criminal who harmed your loved ones, you would not find that to be just.

You do eat meat. But you wont hunt or own a gun? You would make others do your dirty work for you, to kill and clean them for consumption? And at the same time, talk down to the same people who will go and kill the animal for you?
You do not make sense young man.

I consume meat due to being disabled and unable to financially support myself in order to afford a vegan lifestyle. I do not buy meat, nor condone its purchase. I merely eat what is offered to me by members of my family who happen to not care about my dietary preferences.

 

[Truth7t7]

I consume meat due to being disabled and unable to financially support myself in order to afford a vegan lifestyle. I do not buy meat, nor condone its purchase. I merely eat what is offered to me by members of my family who happen to not care about my dietary preferences.

A Vegan lifestyle is much cheaper than a Carnivore, vegetables vs meat are a fraction of the cost

1lb of pinto beans at Walmart in the US is roughly $1.10lb and a pound of 80/20 hamburger is $5.00lb

Just be real Lucian, you know we'll you enjoy the many carnivore dishes of beef, pork, chicken, you consume

 

[Edward429451]

So when I started having kids, we had loaded guns all over the house.
How many tragedies to us raising kids with loaded guns all over? Zero.
Familiarity breeds competency so I taught my kids.

You see when I had first met my wife and asked her on a date sometime, she said yes, how about Saturday? But I had already planned on going shooting 22 rifles on Saturday. I would just take her with me and hit a drive through for eats afterwards. Now she was from Poland and had never touched a gun before for real. But she had a great time and I kept a close eye on her and where she pointed those rifles!

Eventually she gave in from playing hard to get, and you know young girls, she got pregnant fast! I wasn't ready for it but I seen what happened and thought, well it's just my turn, that's all. So I should get a house if she is to be having my baby, so I did. That is when she saw the extent of my gun collection! And being pregnant, she looked forward to kids running around and she told me, if one gun goes off inside the house, then they are all gone, I have to get rid of them! Huh. I guess I better train the kids so everyone is safe. And we had our sons back to back and I had them up at the range shooting at 2 years old? I would basically envelope them and hold the gun and everything. All they really did was pull the trigger. As they got slightly older and were toddlers and could hold a gun and shoot it by themselves, with me very close, I took soda up to the range and shook some cans up and said, shoot those. Bang! And the can explodes into a spray of soda pop, so they could see the real power that they had in the gun.

Then I went and picked up the split soda can and gave it to them and said, fix it, make it better...and got confused looks from them...I said that's what would happen to your mommy or your brother if you shot them! This is real, this is not TV!
Shoot another one. Good shot! This isnt TV, this is real! Do not shoot Mommy, dont shoot your brother! Over and over. And they caught on real fast. By late 8 years of age I trusted them enough to be able to walk behind me while small game hunting with loaded rifles. (I never got shot!)
I made my kids a deal when they was real little. The deal was they could see a real gun and handle it if they asked first, and could recite to me the 4 rules of gun safety. And I stuck to it. It turned into a bedtime thing when they wanted to stay up longer, lol. Smart kids! I can't count how many card games with visiting friends that I put on hold to go show the kids a gun. Dad, can I play with a gun? Son, we don't "play with guns", we "handle" them, safely. What are the 4 rules? All guns are always treated as if they are loaded!, never point it at anything that you are not about to shoot!, Never touch the trigger until your sights are on target!, and be sure of your target and what is beyond it...so I had to keep my word and I would put the game on hold and go show them a gun for a few minutes. And I figured it out quick too, we had two boys. Sweetheart, you can't stay home, we have two kids so who watches the 2nd kid when I am supervising one kid who is shooting? So she had to go to! And soon, she became such a good shot! I got to where she was hitting gallon milk jugs full of water at 100 yards with a 44 magnum, with full house loads! Prolly 4 out of 6 shots! She was good. So no guns ever went off inside the house because I understood that, you can't child-proof a gun. So you have to gun-proof the child!

 

[Edward429451]

I've studied the Bible for several years. It is possible that I might have forgotten some things from the Old Testament. Do explain what you mean.

I meant that it's apparent that you do not study the bible with an open heart. Maybe you do read it a little bit twice a year or something but if you don't read it from your spirit then all you're doing is reading it carnally (that's from a natural man's perspective) and it shows in the debates you post.

I know about the curse. It doesn't logically follow that creatures would be cursed to consume each other's flesh due to humans disobeying God. It seems like a completely arbitrary consequence. It is irrational and unmerciful. Punishing anyone else for the disobedience of another is unjust by the very definition of justice. I am convinced that if someone harmed your loved ones and the judge offered to put his own son in jail instead of the criminal who harmed your loved ones, you would not find that to be just.

See? here you go again. You havent even read enough to understand Salvation.

Where does scripture say that the animals were created in God's image? Where does it say that animals have Dominion over the earth? dominion over the earth was given to man. What do you mean, just? How would you even know? You don't know the Christian God.

I consume meat due to being disabled and unable to financially support myself in order to afford a vegan lifestyle. I do not buy meat, nor condone its purchase. I merely eat what is offered to me by members of my family who happen to not care about my dietary preferences.

You're disabled? How does that make you have to eat meat even though you (supposedly) don't want to? I agree that produce prices are over the top expensive, unless you want cruddy produce. But meat is way up too, ask me how I know! I am disabled and can't hardly afford meat or produce. So how do you afford so much meat?