what is a heresy or a heritic

[MoreCoffee]

Seems to me that the RCC used that term to justify killing a lot of people and I am sure that it wasn't always a heresy. Of course like one poster if you keep repeating it over and over and over till everyone is sick of it then maybe you win that way but it still isn't wrong. Watch out we will be peppered with posts that are the same as the other hundred now but so be it I am tired of tiptoeing around, if they cant erase some of his posts then I guess we will just have to continue on. Seems like someone should take notice and stop this repetitive posting

"Heresy" is an English word that came into the English language through French, Latin, and Greek. In Greek it means "choice" probably with the idea of deliberately choosing to follow error. I mentioned its pedigree because in English history following 1534 AD it was used a great deal to describe anybody and everybody who deviated from the Kings's laws about the King of England being the head of the Church in England. Saint Thomas More was executed as a traitor because he refused to sign a document acknowledging Henry VIII as head of the Church in England. He was beheaded and many priests, abbots, monks, and some bishops were also executed for the same "crime". Under English law the penalty for a traitor was to be hung until nearly dead, disembowelled and castrated while still living, and then to be quartered by severing the body (perhaps still living) into four parts. A very gruesome execution method. Murderers were shown much more mercy by being merely hanged or beheaded. Heretics could be burned which is also a gruesome method of execution.

Today, in the west, heresy is not a civil crime so people are not normally executed for it. The word is used to describe erroneous teaching presented as if it were Christian truth. Those who are judged to be heretics are excommunicated from their church or denomination or expelled from their fellowship or meeting according the the polity of the organisation to which they belong. In many cases a heretic can move from one Christian group to another without much chance of the judgement against them from their former meeting following them in the new one.

 

[tango]

lol .. yes exactly ,
It seems this word heresy is used by peter to describe some one "bringing in " a teaching that's not already established in scripture.
but outside that its used as an accusatory word, mostly when such doctrine is challenged into a corner -out comes the accusation.

I find myself thinking more and more that the biggest threats the church will face are from within rather than from without. As Paul wrote in Acts 20, where the NKJV doesn't specifically use the word "heresy" but the underlying Greek διαστρέφω (translated "perverse things" here) refers to "distort, misintepret, corrupt":

Act 20:29-31 NKJV For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. (30) Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. (31) Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

i like the old saying i think it is wise advice .. "what the ENTIRE scripture states about any given topic ..is the doctrine there of . Never what one single plucked out sentance says .
and any doctrine formed out of the NT is found to be strongly established on the foundation of what the OT states .
ie - doctrines on faith are traced back solidly to Abraham
doctrines on the lamb of God are traced back solidly to the Passover
doctrines on water baptism are traced back solidly to passing through the red sea .etc
no NT based doctrine is without OT foundation. After all ,the apostles studied the scriptures they had and preached from them the Gospel and all the foundations of repentance from dead works , water baptism , resurrection etc they had no NT to refer to . Everything they preached they used the OT to show it . the NT is thier holy Spirit inspired expounding of the OT ..it is the OT explained for us .
thus is ANY teaching is introduced that is cannot be firmly established from the OT also ..or it does not agree with the OT .it is not a doctrine of God but of man .
and it is these such doctrines when challenged that often bring forth the accusation of heresy . and such doctrines are often "denominational based ", not scripturally based , traditions of men , not scriptural doctrines found in both the OT and the NT .

the bereans "searched the scriptures" to see if what was being preached was true .. they did not have the NT ,they did so from the OT .
ANY teaching that either is not found in the OT or the NT ..or disagrees with the OT is to be deemed a false doctrine .
its easy enough to tell . for when the doctrine is challenged into a corner .. heresy is accused .
and that is why i asked "which christian church " for such heresy not againt God or his word - is ONLY against a man made institution and its traditions - and they proved this falsehood . for Jesus said "some will put you to death thinking they are doing the will of God" (pp) and that actions displayed the utter state of error they are in .

When people can't or won't defend what they believe using Scripture it's generally doesn't inspire much confidence in the merit of their position. I still remember the time I was asking a church minister about a specific church practise that troubled me greatly and I never got a single verse of Scripture from him. I got a few words about what the people liked and then a refusal to debate. I wasn't interested in a debate, I could see that either he was badly wrong or I was badly wrong and was trying to figure out which, and he was apparently unconcerned by the situation.

It's good to have a recurring theme through Scripture, although it's worth noting that in some situations the NT has to be seen as "trumping" the OT. The OT wasn't very big on forgiveness but Jesus shook things up a little - compare the law in Lev 20:10 with how Jesus treated the situation in John 8:3-11. Certainly when a teaching is based on little more than a verse with the context butchered the chances are it will lack merit - the example I often use relates to the church I mentioned earlier that had taken Job 22:28 and used it to figure they could declare things and those things would be established. The fact God never even spoke the words in Job 22:28 (and in fact had some pretty stern words for Eliphaz the Temanite, who did, in Job 42:7) was completely lost. Perhaps unsurprisingly very few of the things they declared ever were actually established for them.

 

[tango]

"Heresy" is an English word that came into the English language through French, Latin, and Greek. In Greek it means "choice" probably with the idea of deliberately choosing to follow error. I mentioned its pedigree because in English history following 1534 AD it was used a great deal to describe anybody and everybody who deviated from the Kings's laws about the King of England being the head of the Church in England. Saint Thomas More was executed as a traitor because he refused to sign a document acknowledging Henry VIII as head of the Church in England. He was beheaded and many priests, abbots, monks, and some bishops were also executed for the same "crime". Under English law the penalty for a traitor was to be hung until nearly dead, disembowelled and castrated while still living, and then to be quartered by severing the body (perhaps still living) into four parts. A very gruesome execution method. Murderers were shown much more mercy by being merely hanged or beheaded. Heretics could be burned which is also a gruesome method of execution.

Ah yes, the infamous "hung drawn and quartered" execution method. A fine historical example of showing Christian love to our enemies.

Today, in the west, heresy is not a civil crime so people are not normally executed for it. The word is used to describe erroneous teaching presented as if it were Christian truth. Those who are judged to be heretics are excommunicated from their church or denomination of expelled from their fellowship or meeting according the the polity of the organisation to which they belong. In many cases a heretic can move from one Christian group to another without much chance of the judgement against them from their former meeting following them in the new one.

I sometimes wonder how many churches actually do expel/excommunicate members these days.

 

[visionary]

There is no Hebrew word for heretic.

Outline of Biblical Usage
-fitted or able to take or choose a thing
-schismatic, factious, a follower of a false doctrine
-heretic

Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Many call people who worship God.. heretic.. because they believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets. ....

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I think from this we can safely say those who use it to accuse another.. are probably have more heresy in them than the one they are accusing. I find that those who do throw that word around are those who need to go back to the word and learn from the law and prophets the truth.

 

[Lamb]

A heretic turns one away from God in all His fullness.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ah yes, the infamous "hung drawn and quartered" execution method. A fine historical example of showing Christian love to our enemies.

I sometimes wonder how many churches actually do expel/excommunicate members these days.

If you really annoy the leadership they will end up telling you that you're not welcome. I doubt that many people become annoying solely because of their doctrinal views. But I also doubt that their annoying qualities are mentioned to those who govern the new meeting that they move to after being expelled.

 

[visionary]

'Heretic', one who practices heresy

A nonconformist, one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine

According to Websters and others definition, anyone not subjective to the RCC doctrine is a heretic. This includes, Protestants which also includes Messianics.

The Inquisition was all about conformity, under pain of death. Is this a good thing? Are we to be puppets in our beliefs? Or should we be encouraged to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit which is to be within us and guiding us into all truth? The type of formal heresy is considered a 'grave sin', but it is a 'sin' against the authority of the church, not against G-d. This can be argued of course.

Heresy is understood today to mean the denial of revealed truth as taught by The Church
Notice it does not say as revealed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[psalms 91]

'Heretic', one who practices heresy

A nonconformist, one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine

According to Websters and others definition, anyone not subjective to the RCC doctrine is a heretic. This includes, Protestants which also includes Messianics.

The Inquisition was all about conformity, under pain of death. Is this a good thing? Are we to be puppets in our beliefs? Or should we be encouraged to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit which is to be within us and guiding us into all truth? The type of formal heresy is considered a 'grave sin', but it is a 'sin' against the authority of the church, not against G-d. This can be argued of course.

Heresy is understood today to mean the denial of revealed truth as taught by The Church
Notice it does not say as revealed by the Holy Spirit.

Yes and how can it when so many scoff at the idea of hearing from God or the Holy Spirit annointing being on someone? They cry show us, prove it and Jesus had an answer for those with that kind of faith

 

[visionary]

Here are some 'Heresies' that have specific names. It's interesting that it seems as if every kind of believer will fall into one of these heresies.


Adoptionism Belief that Jesus was born as a mere man, was supremely virtuous and that he was adopted later as "Son of God" by the descent of the Spirit on him.

Americanism A group of related heresies which were defined as the endorsement of freedom of the press, liberalism, individualism, and separation of church and state, as an insistence upon individual initiative, what could be incompatible with the principle of Catholicism of obedience to authority.

Anglo-Israelism Holds that English and to a lesser extent white peoples are the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

Antinomianism Any view which holds that Christians are freed by grace from obligations of any moral law. St Paul had to refute a charge of this type made by opponents because of his attitude to the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:8)

Audianism Belief that God has human form (anthropomorphism) and that one ought to celebrate Jesus' death during the Jewish Passover (quartodecimanism).

Christian Zionism Belief that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism.

Ebionites A Jewish sect that insisted on the necessity of following Jewish religious law and rites, which they interpreted in light of Jesus' expounding of the Law. They regarded Jesus as the Messiah but not as divine.

Free Spirit Mixed mystical beliefs with Christianity. Its practitioners believed that it was possible to reach perfection on earth through a life of austerity and spiritualism. They believed that they could communicate directly with God and did not need the Christian church for intercession.


Iconoclasm The belief that icons are idols and should be destroyed

Melchisedechians Considered Melchisedech an incarnation of the Logos (divine Word) and identified him with the Holy Ghost

Monothelitism Belief that Jesus Christ had two natures but only one will. This is contrary to the orthodox interpretation of Christology, which teaches that Jesus Christ has two wills (human and divine) corresponding to his two natures

Patripassianism Belief that the Father and Son are not two distinct persons, and thus God the Father suffered on the cross as Jesus.

Pelagianism Belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without Divine aid.

Sabellianism Belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three names of one God, rather than three distinct persons in one God.

As you can see, there have been many 'heretics' or many heretical beliefs down through the ages, these are but a few.

 

[visionary]

Bottom line .. everyone is someone else's heretic

 

[MoreCoffee]

Here are some 'Heresies' that have specific names. It's interesting that it seems as if every kind of believer will fall into one of these heresies.


Adoptionism Belief that Jesus was born as a mere man, was supremely virtuous and that he was adopted later as "Son of God" by the descent of the Spirit on him.

Americanism A group of related heresies which were defined as the endorsement of freedom of the press, liberalism, individualism, and separation of church and state, as an insistence upon individual initiative, what could be incompatible with the principle of Catholicism of obedience to authority.

Anglo-Israelism Holds that English and to a lesser extent white peoples are the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

Antinomianism Any view which holds that Christians are freed by grace from obligations of any moral law. St Paul had to refute a charge of this type made by opponents because of his attitude to the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:8)

Audianism Belief that God has human form (anthropomorphism) and that one ought to celebrate Jesus' death during the Jewish Passover (quartodecimanism).

Christian Zionism Belief that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism.

Ebionites A Jewish sect that insisted on the necessity of following Jewish religious law and rites, which they interpreted in light of Jesus' expounding of the Law. They regarded Jesus as the Messiah but not as divine.

Free Spirit Mixed mystical beliefs with Christianity. Its practitioners believed that it was possible to reach perfection on earth through a life of austerity and spiritualism. They believed that they could communicate directly with God and did not need the Christian church for intercession.


Iconoclasm The belief that icons are idols and should be destroyed

Melchisedechians Considered Melchisedech an incarnation of the Logos (divine Word) and identified him with the Holy Ghost

Monothelitism Belief that Jesus Christ had two natures but only one will. This is contrary to the orthodox interpretation of Christology, which teaches that Jesus Christ has two wills (human and divine) corresponding to his two natures

Patripassianism Belief that the Father and Son are not two distinct persons, and thus God the Father suffered on the cross as Jesus.

Pelagianism Belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without Divine aid.

Sabellianism Belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three names of one God, rather than three distinct persons in one God.

As you can see, there have been many 'heretics' or many heretical beliefs down through the ages, these are but a few.

I put into bold text the heresies that the church identified in the first 1000 years but the others you've mentioned seem ad hoc or overly broad.

 

[visionary]

I put into bold text the heresies that the church identified in the first 1000 years but the others you've mentioned seem ad hoc or overly broad.

It depends on the church...

 

[MoreCoffee]

Bottom line .. everyone is someone else's heretic

Does it matter if somebody calls Christianity a heresy? Does it make it so?

 

[visionary]

Exactly.. that is why very few churches point their finger at anyone else and call them names... it just shows poor character.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Exactly.. that is why very few churches point their finger at anyone else and call them names... it just shows poor character.

Does it? The apostles called those who taught error names were the apostles showing poor character? In fact Jesus names some specific heresies is he showing poor character?

It is a mistake to accept everybody as equally able to identify heresy. For example Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, and Muslims identify Christianity as heresy but that does not make it so.

But you have this in your favour: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. (Revelation 2:6 NIV )

I know your afflictions and your poverty-- yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9 NIV )

Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. (Revelation 2:14 NIV )

 

[visionary]

Does it? The apostles called those who taught error names were the apostles showing poor character? In fact Jesus names some specific heresies is he showing poor character?

It is a mistake to accept everybody as equally able to identify heresy. For example Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, and Muslims identify Christianity as heresy but that does not make it so.

But you have this in your favour: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. (Revelation 2:6 NIV )

I know your afflictions and your poverty-- yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9 NIV )

Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. (Revelation 2:14 NIV )

Since you are pointing out these... how about adding... worshiping/venerating stone images... talking to the dead... adding another mediator... changing the Laws of God...and so much more.... all of which are spoken against in scripture.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Since you are pointing out these... how about adding... worshiping/venerating stone images... talking to the dead... adding another mediator... changing the Laws of God...and so much more.... all of which are spoken against in scripture.

Why would I do that when the seventh oecumenical council taught that the use of art including statues is consistent with the Christian Faith and when the holy scriptures bear testimony to both prayers for the dead and conversation with the dead and when Hebrews chapter seven tells us that the laws of Moses have been changed?

 

[visionary]

Why would I do that when the seventh oecumenical council taught that the use of art including statues is consistent with the Christian Faith?

Now you are back behind the group that chooses which shall be called heresy and which shall be sanctioned...

 

[MoreCoffee]

Now you are back behind the group that chooses which shall be called heresy and which shall be sanctioned...

The Church has always been able to call error out as error. Ancient Israel's prophets and priests did the same. Do you really want to advocate total relativism in doctrine and morals?

 

[psalms 91]

The Church has always been able to call error out as error. Ancient Israel's prophets and priests did the same. Do you really want to advocate total relativism in doctrine and morals?

I thought we were already there with the morals and even doctrine. Seems like there is a church for any sin any belief, the word said mens ears would be tickled in the last days and is that ever true