what is a heresy or a heritic

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popsthebuilder

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Nestorianism. A fifth-century heresy claiming that there are two distinct Persons in the Incarnate Christ, one human and one divine. Christianity teaches that Christ was and is a divine person who took on a human nature. According to Nestorianism, it is unthinkable that Mary could really have been the mother of God, but only the mother of a human being conjoined to God. Nestorianism, which took its name from Nestorius, a bishop of Constantinople (d. ca. 451), was condemned by the ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431. Overemphasizing the humanity of Christ, Nestorianism is the opposite heresy from Monophysitism (see above), which overemphasized Christ's divinity.

Novatianism. A schism that became a heresy. It originated with Novatian, a Roman priest who became an antipope, claiming the papacy in 251 in opposition to the true pope, St. Cornelius. The Novatianists adopted a moral rigorism similar to that of Donatism (see above). Those guilty of grave sin were excluded from the Church permanently, and absolution was refused to those guilty of the sins of murder and adultery.

Pelagianism. A heretical doctrine on divine grace taught by Pelagius (355-425), a monk from the British Isles who first propagated his views in Rome in the time of Pope Anastasius I. Pelagius argued that Christianity's teaching that in order to do good, divine grace in the soul was necessary. This canceled human free will. Pelagianism included a cluster of other beliefs and essentially entailed a denial of the Christian doctrine of Original Sin. It was condemned by local councils in Africa in 416 and 417, and also by Pope St. Innocent I in the latter year. It was condemned again in 418 by his successor, Pope St. Zosimus. Semi-Pelagianism, a related heresy, was condemned by the local Council of Orange in 529 but has long persisted among those who question Original Sin and the supremacy of divine grace.

Priscillianism. A fourth-century heresy originating in Spain and combining forms of both Modalism and Gnosticism (see above). It denied Christ's divinity and real humanity, holding that human souls were united to bodies in punishment for their sins.

Sabellianism. A third-century heresy named after a theologian, Sabellius (fl. ca. 215). The Sabellians believed that there was only one Person in God, with three "modes", or aspects, of manifesting himself as Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier. It was thus a form of Modalism (see above). Jesus Christ was merely a temporary manifestation in the flesh of the eternal God. This heresy was also known by the name of Patripassianism, since it held that it was the Father who suffered on the cross. It was condemned by Pope St. Callistus I, but as a form of Modalism it has persisted in history in connection with other heresies.

Semi-Arianism. A modified form of Arianism (see above) that flourished after the Council of Nicaea had condemned Arianism in 325. The Semi-Arians were often "moderates" who wanted to forge a "compromise" between those who held to the Christianity's strict teaching concerning the divinity of Christ and Christ's consubstantiality with the Father and those tempted by Arianism to deny many great truths. Sometimes referred to as Arianizers, the Serni-Arians also included those who wished to substitute homo-i-ousios ("of like substance") or homoios ("similar") for the orthodox Nicene homo-ousios ("one in being" or "consubstantial") with the Father. There were a number of differing positions that fell within the general category of Semi-Arianism; their common theme was an unwillingness to accept that the Nicene term homo-ousios was necessary to the orthodox doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

Subordinationism. A general name for all the fourth century heresies that admitted only God the Father as God. See the entries above for Arianism, Anomeanism, Macedonianism, Modalism, and Semi-Arianism; all of these heresies are forms of Subordinationism.

Valentinianism. A form of the ancient heresy of Gnosticism (see above) based on the teaching of one Valentinus, who lived in Rome between 136 and 165. The Valentinians claimed that the visible world had been created by the God of the Old Testament but that only the invisible world was real. According to them, Christ came to deliver mankind from its bondage to matter and the physical world; most of mankind, however, wholly engrossed in matter, would nevertheless end in eternal perdition. The great St. Irenaeus (ca. 125-ca. 202) inveighed against Valentinianism in particular in his magisterial work Against the Heresies.


Which of the above universally declared heresies to you, Alithis, in your own individual, singular opinion is NOT heresy but you defend as Truth because YOU individually feel such based on how YOU individual view the words of Scripture?



Thank you.


- Josiah
Your descriptions of the "heresies" is overly biased, and manipulative, making honest inquiry unachievable.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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Heresy is what CHRISTIANITY has declared as wrong.

I gave the list for you.


The counterpoint seems to be that these heresies are subject to the individual, singular feeling of [insert the full proper name of whatever that is], subject to whether ___________ personally, individually, singularly FEELS that Scripture affirms are wrong..... So I'll ask you again: in the personal, individual, singular feeling of your yourself, which of the heresies do YOU in YOUR individual, singular, personal feeling about Scripture is NOT wrong but rather right, NOT heresy but rather Truth (in the individual, personal, singular feeling of you yourself)?


And again, heresy has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my denomination, your denomination or any denomination. NO denomination has EVER decided ANY of these heresies were wrong (although ALL known to me agree that they are), they were decided by the whole corpus of Christians in ancient times, and declared wrong by ECUMENICAL Councils (NOT by denominations), long, long ago. I don't know why you keep wanting to make this about you or about denominations.... why you are so obsessed with individuals..... or why you won't answer whether you embrace the heresies AS SUCH or rather you feel they are right rather than wrong. Will YOU state if these - the heresies - ARE heresies? Or do you defend one or more as Truth in your individual, singular opinion?




.
The list you have is opinionated, biased, fear mongering and manipulative, none of which are traits of a Christian teaching or following.

I'll be your target. I believe in Arianism. You already knew that though. It w quite disheartening to read how ones understandings of the will and or nature of God can be so easily and hatefully twisted into some unrecognizable thing for the sake of scaring people from it. We are to fear no thing whatsoever, but God and the consequences of not following his will as it has been shown to us.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Josiah

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I believe in Arianism.

And Arianism is one of the stated heresies of Christianity. You certainly may embrace WHATEVER, that's true for all the 7.3 billion people of the world. But it doesn't change the reality: There are several views that Christianity officially rebuked - ecumenically - a long, long, long time ago. I gave the list of these rebuked views. I don't AT ALL deny that these all get resurrected from time to time, but that doesnt' change the reality: they are stated heresies. Yes, I'm met a few modern Christians (generally among "Evangelicals") who lean toward Arianism and also Nestorianism, but the reality that these views (perhaps innocently) return now and then doesn't change history: these views were firmly, universally, ecumenically rebuked, a long time ago, and officially stated to be heresies.

A heresy is a view that has been ecumenically and officially rebuked and rejected. It is a specific list. I gave that list. I suspect most heretics are simply unaware that they are such; and I fear that many are heretics because their pastors are as well, simply uneducated, uninformed, unaware that what they are teaching/preaching is actually heresy. I think it's often a matter of ignorance. I'm far, far more disheartened when people don't care, that people KNOW the history, know the debate, know the Ecumenical Councils, and yet - snubbing their nose at Christianity - embrace the heresy anyway. I don't question their political "right" to believe WHATEVER they want, but on the other hand, when they proclaim heresy I think it is compelling to note that lest the innocent be lead astray by what Christianity has officially proclaimed to be a false teaching and thus a false teacher. I'm sure you see my point.



Thank you.


- Josiah
 

Alithis

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please stop using this thread to make argument about your perceived denominations heresies .
in the op i have given a dictionary definition of the word heresy the topic is about defining heresy NOT arguing for or againt
your preferred ones .

and we have established that heresy is subjective to denomination. thus just because a person cries heresy ..it in no way means it has been committed againt god or his word but rather only againt a denominations preferred perceptions .
 

Josiah

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please stop using this thread to make argument about your perceived denominations heresies

Not one of the heresies is denominational. They are - by definition - ECUMENICAL. They are the teachings that have been ECUMENICALLY and officially proclaimed to be heresies. True - virtually all denominations (including Protestant ones ) AGREE that this list of teachings are heresy, but they are just signing on to what long, long, long ago were officially and ecumenically declared to be heresy. I gave you the list.


the topic is about defining heresy


Heresy - those teachings that Christianity long, long ago ecumenically and officially declared to be false.



we have established that heresy is subjective to denomination

Hum, no. It has nothing to do with any denomination. Most were declared such at one of the seven ECUMENICAL Councils. No denomination declared any of them to be heresy, although virtually all have later agreed that they are. I listed them for you.



just because a person cries heresy ..it in no way means it has been committed againt god or his word

I never remotely said otherwise. But the list is historical and objective - I gave it to you. Now, one individual single person can opinion that Arius was right and Arianism is true - but obviously it remains one of the historic, official, ecumenically declared heresies. Similarly, one can argue that California is a territory of Mexico (or should be, lol) but that doesn't change the REALITY that in 1847 (or there abouts) it became part of the USA. An individual can decry that but one individual can't deny taht official change did happen. I gave you the list of heresies. Each WAS - in reality, in fact, in history - officially, formally, ecumenically (NOT denominationally) declared to be a heresy. It's just a historical FACT. You individually can disagree with the ruling of all Christians, but you can't change the reality that Christianity objectively, formally, officially, and ecumenically declared the view to be "heresy."

And by the way, if you individually are going to stand against all Christianity (and likely your own denomination) and proclaim the heresy - then, you are proclaiming the heresy. You individually, singularly are simply disagreeing with 2000 years of Christians, billions and billions of Christians, virtually every denomination on the planet in arguing that the view is true. But you can't undo the reality of history that it was declared heresy, YOU just are individually, singularly disagree with Christianity. In modern USA anyway, you have that political "right." But that doesn't change the reality that the view is one that was officially, formally, ecumenically declared a heresy: you are promoting a heresy.




.
 

Josiah

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Josiah said:

Alithis -


Which of the heresies do you personally, individually think is actually correct, according to YOUR OWN individual, singular "understanding" of the words found in Scripture? Which of the official, ecumenically denounce heresies below do you (by your own individual, singular feeling) do YOU individually insist is not heretical but rather correct? They are listed for you.



Looking at examples is always a good way of helping to define a term. So, given the examples that Josiah listed, which ones do you guys agree on or disagree on?

.


Josiah said:


Alithis - So, you won't state that ANY of the heresies Christianity has declared are wrong. You won't say anything is wrong - because you aren't the judge. I understand that. I just wonder if you do, if you then will never state that anything stated here at CH is wrong, that you will then never declare anyone here at CH to be wrong. You aren't the judge. Got it. Do you?

And of course, it means you'll want to be treated the same - you'll not desire anyone to agree with you on anything - because we aren't a judge either, God alone will determine if what you say is right or wrong, we must not. Got it. Do you?


.


Yup. I gave the official list. Now - which ones do individuals here separate from 2000 years of Christianity and actually support?

The list is stated in posts 49 and 50.




.
 
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Alithis

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nope. the thread is about defining the genral term of heresy.
Not about entering into an endless debate of your prefered denominational perceptions.

i note that one of the dictionary uses/similies , is a person who is ceaslessly argumentative.

this thread has now been hijacked .

im out.
 

Josiah

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nope. the thread is about defining the genral term of heresy.
Not about entering into an endless debate of your prefered denominational perceptions.

i note that one of the dictionary uses/similies , is a person who is ceaslessly argumentative.

this thread has now been hijacked .

im out.

Since you refuse the historic definition - and since you refuse to discuss the historic/ecumenically condemned heresies - I think you were always "out" as you put it.

The REALITY is this: Heresy refers to the corpus of UNIVERSALLY/ECUMENICALLY (not denominationally!) condemned teachings. Those officially, formally, universally, historically condemned as wrong. There is an objective, historic LIST of them. THEY are the heresies. You simply decided to not discuss any of them or post which (if any) you personally, individually, singularly, all-by-yourself declare are NOT wrong but rather TRUTH - placing you outside of historic, ecumenical Christianity. I wonder why.




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Alithis

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Because im a deciple of the lord Jesus not a deciple of a denomination.

The topic is about the word heresy..a refusal to answer your question is not an answer..it is a refusal to be drawn into the sinful state of endless contentions which are unedifying .
Youv succeeded in derailing this thread and you turned it personal.
Well done.
I forgive you

But i wont continue your endless arguing.
 

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