two Sabbaths that week..

[visionary]

Blemish check was an important aspect in the Passover lamb choosing. Levitical instructions are that the lamb must be checked for blemishes as only a perfect, spotless and unblemished lamb would suffice for the Passover Lamb. At this time, the*Lamb of God*was*inspected*for His*theological and Torah observance purity*according to the*Law of Moses.**While in the temple teaching, He is approached by the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and various other groups, each with different and difficult questions, all were trying to trap him in his words.

Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodias, saying, Master, we know that you art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither cares you for any man: for you regard not the prestige or status of men. Tell us therefore, what do you think? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Yeshua perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why tempt you me, you hypocrites? Show me the tribute money.” And they brought unto him a penny. And he said unto them, “whose is this image and inscription?” They say unto him, “Caesar's.” Then said he unto them, “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.” When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left him, and went their way.

The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? For they all had her.
Yeshua answered and said unto them, “You do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, “Master, which is the great commandment in the law?” Yeshua said unto him, “you shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, you shalt love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” While the Pharisees were gathered together, Yeshua asked them, saying, “What think you of the Messiah? Whose son is he?” They say unto him, “The son of David.” He said unto them, “How then does David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, till I make yours enemies your footstool? If David then calls him Lord, how is he his son?” And no man was able to answer him a word; neither did any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

They were looking for any blemish, theological, or otherwise, which might disqualify him as the Messiah. They could not find fault. He meets each question soundly, and no one can find fault with him. He is without blemish. When they found no fault with this “Lamb of God” they didn’t even realize they had “chosen” Him because he was without blemish. Since He was perfect they decided He should be killed or as the High Priest that year said, “Die for the nation.”

 

[visionary]

It all accumulates into His final words to them. It includes the seven woes that will fall upon them. It is all recorded as He cries out, “Ohh Jerusalem, Jerusalem” you will not see me again until you say “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.” It is a sad prophecy utterance out of His mouth that day, when He turns away. He knew that they would not receive His blessings until that fateful day in the near future, when it all comes back to them and they cry out “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.”

And they will, because prophetically it will have to get to the abomination of desolation before they realize that they have made the wrong choice and Yeshua prophecy comes true. “I have*come*in*my Father’s*name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else*comes*in*his own*name, you will accept him.” And with utter abhorrence of their grievous sins, they repent as a nation.”

The disciples knew that the following afternoon the Passover lambs were to be slaughtered in the Temple and were thinking of the traditional Passover festivities. Yeshua eats with His disciples at the Last Supper knowing that He will be the Passover Lamb the next morning and fulfilling this event. There is a tradition amongst Rabbis that they would have a meet*on the*day before the Passover with His students*and*conduct*a*training lesson*on the*Passover Seder. In the*Lubavitch rabbinic movement they gather together*the*night before the Passover*for*what they call*the*“Moschiach’s Supper”.*He knows He will be buried at the time that they will be eating the flesh of the Passover lamb so He holds a teaching Seder. They will be thinking about that last supper as they partake of the Passover lamb. It will all come together for them and that is how tradition meets reality in Yeshua.

Appointed sacrifice time would be fulfilled with matching Passover lamb sacrifice in the temple and Yeshua dying on the cross. It is the third hour, 9:00 AM when he is on the cross crucified.

 

[visionary]

Pilgrims bringing up their lambs for the Passover slaughter, starting with the High Priest offering his lamb as the first Passover Lamb of the ceremony. While this slaughter is about to occur, it would not be surprising that God rents the curtain signifying that the Lamb of God has been offered and this service has now been fulfilled by the Son of God upon the cross. Yeshua had then been hanging on the cross for six hours when He died. That was the very hour the Passover lambs were to be slain in the temple. Yeshua, the lamb, died. The curtain is rent.

This probably caused consternation and turmoil for those that witnessed this phenomenon. For such a thing to happen, must have scared many of them who were wondering what the cause of this supernatural event was. And then afterwards wondering what it all meant.

For the centurion at the foot of the cross, the earthquake, the renting sounds of the giant curtain in the temple, at the very moment of Yeshua’s death was all the proof He needed. Those with hardened hearts, moved swiftly to stifle the truth and enquiring minds. After the Passover was over, during the next day in which they were to make preparation for the up coming weekly Sabbath, the religious leaders when to the political leaders and asked for assistance in blocking any further events that would point to the one that they had just crucified for being chosen as the one.

There were two Sabbaths that week that Yeshua died. The first one occurred on the evening of the crucifixion. Yeshua is buried at the end of preparation day before the Sabbath. He is took it down and wrapped it in a linen shroud and*laid him in a tomb cut in stone.

The day following the Passover was high day Sabbath but not the preparation day for the weekly Sabbath. Yeshua was in the grave from Passover until First Fruits which would be three days. “Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulcher be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first. Pilate said unto them, “You have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as you can.” So they went, and made the sepulcher sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.

Leviticus 23:39 “On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the produce of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the*Lord*seven days. On the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.

 

[visionary]

You can not purchase spices after the Sabbath, and yet prepare those spices before the Sabbath. When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. Then they returned and prepared spices and ointments.*On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

Yeshua was crucified on Wednesday and then the High Holy Day [first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread] began Wednesday night at sundown. It is a Sabbath feast that the Jews were talking about preparing for. So they got the dead down from the crosses and into the graves before the Feast of Unleavened Bread started. The Feast of Unleavened Bread has three Sabbaths in it. The first and last days of the seven day feast and the weekly feast somewhere in the midst of the feast week.

This is why the women did not have time between the Sabbaths to anoint him. Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

The disciples who walked with Yeshua on the road to Emmaus did so on the “same day” of His resurrection. The disciples didn’t recognize Yeshua, told Him about His resurrection being “the third day since these things happened.” Quick review of what was fulfilled. They were to examine the lamb for four days to make sure it was which blemish and Yeshua was examined for four days in the Temple. On the fourteenth, the lamb was to be slain at 3 p.m. and the blood spread on the lintel and Yeshua was crucified on Passover and died at 3 p.m. Yeshua became our Passover Lamb that day. Yeshua also fulfilled the Passover spring time feast.

 

[visionary]

Centuries later as the church separated itself from its Jewish roots and began to develop its own celebrations; the Church fathers looked at the Scriptures and read where Yeshua had to be taken down from the cross before sundown because the following day was a Sabbath. They thought that it meant the following day was Saturday; therefore, Yeshua had to have been crucified on Friday. That is where you get Good Friday. What they failed to realize is that the day after Passover which is the Feast on Unleavened Bread, was declared by God to be a Sabbath (the High Sabbath which John 19:31 talks about) regardless of which day of the week it actually fell on,*by naming it a high Sabbath it deferentied it*as a*different Shabbat*than the*weekly seventh-day Sabbath.* The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. In harmony with the prophecy of Daniel, “in the midst of the week” predicts the day of the week for Yeshua’s death, the midst of the prophetic week it was fulfilled.

The Lord was setting a lot of people free by the salvation offered that day upon the cross. The controversy over the Jubilees lies in the reading of scripture that Yeshua did at the start of His ministry when He read out of Isaiah stopping short of reading the complete verse and then telling everyone that today it is being fulfilled in their ears. This is a Jubilee prophecy.

 

[visionary]

The full proclamation in Isaiah included one more line which Yeshua did not quote. That is because this prophecy will again have a fuller fulfillment in the last days. It will be the day of vengeance of our God. Yeshua has freed the minds of men, the day that they come to the cross for salvation, the truly repentant of their sins is granted the saving grace of God.

 

[visionary]

The feast of First Fruits or Wave Sheaf, as it is also called, comes in the spring the day after the first weekly Sabbath after the Passover. A sheaf in the Bible is used to typify a group of people of which you should see yourself as being a part of in the final harvest. *The first fruits were always the choicest, the foremost,*the first, the best, and the preeminent.* Just like the 144,000 will be the first fruits of the final harvest. They*were holy to the Lord.*

Everything on earth, man, beast, and crop harvests was presented before the Lord as the first fruits at their appointed time. The first born of man and beast were to be sanctified [made holy] and presented before Him. The fruits of labor in all the crops, whether grain or fruit were presented before God with praise and thanksgiving. The day after the first weekly Sabbath following Passover is also known as the Wave Sheaf.

Yeshua was resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits. This particular year, the Passover was on Thursday and Yeshua was in the grave for the three days and three nights just as He said He would be. “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

This feast the Jews today do not observe, for the most part, the First Fruits or the Wave Sheaf even though commanded to by God because it deals with the resurrection. Until they are reconciled with the death and resurrection of Yeshua Messiah as their Messiah and the fulfillment of this spring time feast, they probably won’t. It could easily be because of the death and resurrection of Yeshua and their position that He was not the Messiah they had waited for; they have chosen to not observe it.

It was a spring harvest festival for the people of the land. The deadness of winter is past and the earth is once again putting forth new leaves and blooming. Since this was the beginning of the barley season, the Jews were expected to bring some sheaves of the green barley to the Temple as an offering and in anticipation of a bountiful harvest that fall. So also did our Lord have His Sheaf of first fruits with the resurrection of holy people from the past. They did not come out of their graves until after His resurrection even though their graves were opened at the time of the earthquake at His death.

Yeshua Himself is the first fruit offering before His Father in Heaven. When Yeshua was found by Mary, He said “… Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

He had not yet gone to His Father as the First Fruit/Wave Sheaf offering, but as with all offerings, they must remain Holy, set apart for a purpose and that is the reason He said this to Mary. Since Yeshua raises people instead of plants, His offering of first fruits to the Father was comprised of resurrected saints as seen in “The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Yeshua' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.” *

This offering was the fulfillment of the festival; they were the first fruits of the bountiful harvest to come. “And from Yeshua Messiah, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth; unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.”

To get an idea of how often the Lord keeps His appointed time, let me mention a few other events that happened at the appointed harvest times. Noah’s Ark rested on Mount Ararat on the first day of the first month [Nisan].

Israel crosses the Red Sea during the feast of Unleavened Bread. The Tabernacle in the Wilderness, God commanded that it be set up the first day of the first month. Miriam dies and the water flows from the Rock in the first month. Israel at the first fruits in the Promised Land on the seventeenth of Nisan and that was when the manna that God had been giving them during the days in the wilderness ceased.

It was the 10th day of Nisan when Joshua came to the city of Jericho and for seven days they marched blowing their horns. They circumcised all the males before the keeping of the Passover in the Promised Land. The first fruit of the Promised Land was the taking of Jericho that year.

Yeshua is the first fruits in so many ways. Yeshua is the first born of Mary. Yeshua is not only the only begotten Son of God, He is the first begotten of our Heavenly Father. As Paul in Colossians says Yeshua is also the first born of every creature. Scripture reveals the pre-eminence of Yeshua with His resurrection from the dead. He is also known as the firstborn of many brethren.

Yeshua celebrated the Feast of First Fruits by offering Himself as the first fruits of all future generations. You know that those that were resurrected the same time that Yeshua were part of the wave sheaf, the first fruits of the harvest, a fulfillment of the this ceremonial Sabbath.
Israel is also known as God’s firstborn. As you have seen the first, if the prophecy that our Lord has given us, will be last and the last will be first. Israel may have been first in line to receive the offer of salvation through God, but they will be the last to truly see what has been in the living oracles all along, and that Yeshua is their Messiah all along. The will come when as a nation, Israel will have the blinders off and will call on Yeshua as their Messiah, their God, the Holy One of Israel. This is why the gospel is to be preached to the Jews first and then to the rest of the nations.

You solve the reason for their blindness, and you will discover the brilliance of the Lord’s message, and it will start at Jerusalem again and before it goes around the world, the Lord will have returned. Even you are called to seek the Kingdom of God first. Yeshua loves you first and He is to be our first love. James called the early believers, the first fruits. Yeshua is the first [the Alpha…Aleph] and the last [the Omega…Tav]

Very few people understand God’s Holy Days and how it is His systematic plan of salvation to save you all and offering everyone eternal life in His kingdom. Right now you are approaching the fall harvest. You are approaching the beginning of this final harvest; you are at the eleventh hour in earth’s history.

 

[visionary]

Feast of Pentecost is considered a summer harvest of the land celebration. You can read about the first Pentecost in “Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, who is on the LORD's side? Let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. And he said unto them, Thus said the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. “

Isn’t it amazing that three thousand people died in the first Pentecost and when Peter got up and preached on the day of Pentecost, three thousand people were born again? The upper room experience was a fulfillment of the feast Pentecost. Remember the Lord’s Prayer. “If you love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you. This Comforter is the Spirit of Truth or better known as the Holy Spirit.”

The job of the Holy Spirit is to teach. The Holy Spirit that has come into your life has never been allowed to do His primary work. His primary work is to teach and to show you Yeshua in all things. “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeded from the Father, he shall testify of me.” The Spirit of God tells about Yeshua! “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.”

There were things about Yeshua that the disciples would not fully understand; there were things that hadn’t happened yet. They couldn’t understand what He was there to do while He stood before them.

 

[visionary]

Did you notice the detail that all the spring type feasts were fulfilled by the first coming of Yeshua? These feasts that had significant fulfillment with the first coming of Yeshua also point to the future fulfillment of the fall feasts for His Second Coming. You are to appear before the Lord they God in the place and appointed time that He chooses. You are not to appear empty. May this study help you with the knowledge of the fall feasts significance in the last days of earth’s history and your life. Three times a year you are to appear before the Lord, and in Pentecost which was the time of the first time you are to be before God, the baptism of the Holy Spirit came upon the people that day. What is in store for you when He meets with you during the Fall Feasts? Your job is to proclaim them in their seasons.

The ceremonial feasts are there for a reason; this is more than just an old testament and an old covenant. God always has deeper meaning to everything He does. The new covenant of Yeshua was a fulfillment of the spring time feasts. Since it was fulfilled in a reality in the life of Yeshua, let you take a closer look at the fall feasts that God has given you. Gods Feasts are appointed and fixed places in time according to His Redemption Plan.

We are to remember and celebrate these significant events in history where God’s hand in changing the course of history are laid out for our redemption. They are, as the definition says, assemblies convened for definite and specific purposes. We must remember that these are the Lord's appointed times and He wants us to rehearse them knowing that they are a shadow of things to come.

 

[visionary]

The three annual festivals that God commanded through Moses were also communal. The first of these festivals was Passover, the second was Pentecost or Weeks (Shavout), and the final festival was often called Ingathering, Tabernacles, or Booths (Sukkot). They were not open to strangers outside of the covenant given to Moses; among Israelites, those who were ritually clean could attend and partake. However, the festivals were also open to Gentile proselytes who would be circumcised and thus enter the covenant; these proselytes were to be treated as those born in the land (Exodus 12:45).

These festival communal meals at the Tabernacle and Temple involved bread and wine with rejoicing as the bread was broken and the wine—either new wine or wine diluted with water—was shared. These meals were not regarded as worldly parties but rather as reverent but joyful celebrations in God’s presence, and they pointed forward to the spiritual feasting in the New Covenant and to the Messianic banquet envisioned by many Jews throughout history.

God commanded the Israelites to attend these three annual festivals in the place where the ark—symbolic of His presence—would dwell.

Deuteronomy 16:16–17 “Three times in a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God in the place which He
chooses, at the Feast of Unleavened Bread and at the Feast of Weeks and at the Feast of Booths, and they shall not appear before the
LORD empty-handed. Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD your God which He has given you.

 

[visionary]

 

[tango]

Sorry I dropped the ball on this thread, sometimes I read things on my tablet and then it doesn't show up in my User CP.

I see. So no metaphor in what he says about Jonah and the three days and nights it's all exact and precise and must come to pass exactly as written.

If Jesus said "three days and three nights" when he meant "two days and one night" or "two days and two nights" or something else we'd have to ask why he didn't speak factually rather than metaphorically? If Jesus said "three days and three nights" but didn't actually mean three days and three nights, what else did he say that sounds factual might turn out to be metaphorical or not quite what it appears? If Jesus had said "I'll be gone a few days" and teachings had sprung up that twisted Scriptural context that would be one thing, but when if he talked of a specific time it seems reasonable to assume he did so for a reason. He could always have said "Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth" without mentioning times. Since there are other mentions of the third day (Mat 20:19, Luke 24:7, Luke 24:46) it doesn't seem unreasonable to figure that "the third day" is important, as opposed to "some future day". Presumably if Jesus hadn't returned by day 4 the Pharisees and the Romans would have paraded his body around to show that he claimed he'd be back in three days but was still very much dead.

But then why is baptism not also exactly as described in Acts 22:16 (having your sins washed away exactly and precisely as it is said) and why is baptism not what saves us as it is said in 1 Peter 3:21 (exactly and precisely as it is written) and why is it not necessary to be born of water and the Spirit exactly and precisely as it is written in John 3:1-5? How about when the Lord says "this is my body" that can't be a metaphor can it, given that three days and three nights for Jonah in the belly of a 'great fish' is exact and precise so the bread is not bread any more is it but the body of Christ just as he said. I think I ought to use the principle you're applying as widely as possible and see how many doctrines it will yield that many in this forum do not believe.

No metaphors in the bible, nope not one. ... sorry, I know I am being a little biting here and you certainly do not deserve it because you're a rather good chap but I'll leave the text as it is because quite a few recent posters have made such a song and dance about not seeing "mother of God" in those exact and precise words in their English translations of the bible I thought a little excursion into the hermeneutics of their approach was in order.

It's a fair question. I preach a message of "test all things" and "all things" includes the things that I believe whether through the result of lots of study or a casual reading. So challenge away, it's good to test what I believe to see how well it withstands scrutiny. If "iron sharpens iron" sometimes I'll do the sharpening, sometimes I'll receive some sharpening. It's all good.

I think the difference between "three days and three nights" and, for example, "this is my body" is that one lends itself readily to being a metaphor and the other doesn't. Three is a specific number, it's not two, it's not four, it's three. If I sell you something and take your money, and promise "delivery in three days" you know when you'll be getting your goods. If I show up after two days you may not be ready to receive them and if I don't show up until four days have passed I'll have an unhappy customer. "Wash away your sins" clearly doesn't mean the sins wash away in the same literal manner that physical dirt washes away because we all know we can't see sinfulness. "This is my body" also lends itself to being a metaphor in the same way I can show you a line on a map and say "This is Main Street" - it clearly isn't, it's a representation of Main Street, but the chances are you won't make an issue of that if I'm giving you directions. The map that says "You Are Here" is clearly wrong because you aren't on the map, you're standing next to the map.

My apologies for picking your post as the forum for writing it. Now let's return to the passage that you're referring to and see what it says and if it is as precise and as exact as your approach to it suggests. It says:

"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came'; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation." (Matthew 12:36-45)​

I made the words of Christ red so that we can concentrate on them and give some thought to the specific part that is the cause of this thread's theses; namely that three days and three nights is needed to accomplish the sign spoken of by the Lord. It's interesting that most commentators who deal with this passage see it like this:

Three days and three nights - It will be seen in the account of the resurrection of Christ that he was in the grave but two nights and a part of three days. See Matthew 18:6. This computation is, however, strictly in accordance with the Jewish mode of reckoning. If it had “not” been, the Jews would have understood it, and would have charged our Saviour as being a false prophet, for it was well known to them that he had spoken this prophecy, Matthew 27:63. Such a charge, however, was never made; and it is plain, therefore, that what was “meant” by the prediction was accomplished. It was a maxim, also, among the Jews, in computing time, that a part of a day was to be received as the whole. Many instances of this kind occur in both sacred and profane history. See 2Chron 10:5, 2Chron 10:12; Gen 42:17-18. Compare Ester 4:16 with Ester 5:1.​

(Albert Barnes Notes on the bible)​

Which seems a rather good explanation with sufficient backing from holy scripture.

I'm looking over what Albert Barnes wrote here, and can't help thinking there's some circular reasoning going on. I don't see a reference to the account of the resurrection that Jesus was in the grave two nights and three days, and Matt 18:6 (the passage about causing a little one who believes to stumble) doesn't really seem relevant because we can believe in Jesus regardless of whether he died on a Wednesday or a Friday (Jesus told us to remember him but never said we had to do it on any particular day). I'm also not really seeing how the OT references make the case one way or the other, they seem to be little more than examples of when terms like "three days" were used.

I don't imagine Albert Barnes' notes became so well known based on issues like this so I'm wondering if I missed something.

 

[visionary]

"According to Jewish law, to be declared legally dead, a person had to be dead for three FULL days or more. Therefore, if Jesus had risen from the dead before 3 PM on the afternoon of Nisan 17, a weekly Sabbath (Saturday), He would not have been considered legally dead. As a result, His return to life would not have been considered a true resurrection from the dead.

"If He had been crucified on a Friday and restored to life on Sunday morning at sunrise (what Christianity calls Easter morning), His death WOULD NOT have been "valid" since only two nights and one day would have passed between Friday sunset and Sunday morning. In order for His death to be publicly recognized and acknowledged, it was necessary for Jesus to remain in the grave for three nights and three days before He was raised from the dead." (HBFV, Appendix J) "
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/was-jesus-in-the-grave-for-three-days-and-nights.html

 

[MoreCoffee]

...

It's a fair question. I preach a message of "test all things" and "all things" includes the things that I believe whether through the result of lots of study or a casual reading. So challenge away, it's good to test what I believe to see how well it withstands scrutiny. If "iron sharpens iron" sometimes I'll do the sharpening, sometimes I'll receive some sharpening. It's all good.

I think the difference between "three days and three nights" and, for example, "this is my body" is that one lends itself readily to being a metaphor and the other doesn't. Three is a specific number, it's not two, it's not four, it's three. If I sell you something and take your money, and promise "delivery in three days" you know when you'll be getting your goods. If I show up after two days you may not be ready to receive them and if I don't show up until four days have passed I'll have an unhappy customer. "Wash away your sins" clearly doesn't mean the sins wash away in the same literal manner that physical dirt washes away because we all know we can't see sinfulness. "This is my body" also lends itself to being a metaphor in the same way I can show you a line on a map and say "This is Main Street" - it clearly isn't, it's a representation of Main Street, but the chances are you won't make an issue of that if I'm giving you directions. The map that says "You Are Here" is clearly wrong because you aren't on the map, you're standing next to the map.

...

It is all so obvious when you say "this is my body" is obviously a metaphor and "three days and three nights" is obviously not a metaphor except that it really is not obvious and your reply is even more arbitrary than the one you gave before. Why is it obvious that "just as .... was in the belly of a great fish three days and three nights so the Son of Man will ..." not a metaphor when it explicitly uses "as" (the word one uses when introducing a simile) and then you say "this is my body" is obviously a metaphor when not one word is present to show it is a metaphor - the Lord didn't say "this is as my body" or as the Jehovah's witnesses bible says "this means my body" yet you say it lends itself to being a metaphor and that "for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40 NASB) doesn't? I can't help but notice how like a metaphor the latter is and how unlike one the former is and that makes me wonder why you do not see it in the case where the language is suggestive of metaphor but you say that you do see it in the case where the language does not. Could it be that your theology is filtering your understanding of the words so that the underlined text from Matthew 12:40 appears to be pure descriptive prose to you while the text from Matthew 26:26 NASB (While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body.") appears to lend itself to a metaphorical interpretation?

And I am also left wondering why one is compelled to take "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" as descriptive prose whose meaning can only be three twenty four hour days thus constituting three full days and three full nights rather than as Friday afternoon, Saturday night and Saturday day time, and Sunday night and Sunday morning which would be three incomplete days and two complete nights? Besides the testimony of ancient writers and modern scholars is alike that Good Friday, Holy Saturday, and Easter Sunday are in fact three days and three nights in the reckoning of ancient Judean Jews. So why this need for seventy two hours or something very close to seventy two hours in this case but not in others?

 

[tango]

It is all so obvious when you say "this is my body" is obviously a metaphor and "three days and three nights" is obviously not a metaphor except that it really is not obvious and your reply is even more arbitrary than the one you gave before. Why is it obvious that "just as .... was in the belly of a great fish three days and three nights so the Son of Man will ..." not a metaphor when it explicitly uses "as" (the word one uses when introducing a simile) and then you say "this is my body" is obviously a metaphor when not one word is present to show it is a metaphor - the Lord didn't say "this is as my body" or as the Jehovah's witnesses bible says "this means my body" yet you say it lends itself to being a metaphor and that "for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40 NASB) doesn't? I can't help but notice how like a metaphor the latter is and how unlike one the former is and that makes me wonder why you do not see it in the case where the language is suggestive of metaphor but you say that you do see it in the case where the language does not. Could it be that your theology is filtering your understanding of the words so that the underlined text from Matthew 12:40 appears to be pure descriptive prose to you while the text from Matthew 26:26 NASB (While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body.") appears to lend itself to a metaphorical interpretation?

And I am also left wondering why one is compelled to take "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" as descriptive prose whose meaning can only be three twenty four hour days thus constituting three full days and three full nights rather than as Friday afternoon, Saturday night and Saturday day time, and Sunday night and Sunday morning which would be three incomplete days and two complete nights? Besides the testimony of ancient writers and modern scholars is alike that Good Friday, Holy Saturday, and Easter Sunday are in fact three days and three nights in the reckoning of ancient Judean Jews. So why this need for seventy two hours or something very close to seventy two hours in this case but not in others?

Except I don't think I did say that "this is my body" is obviously a metaphor, I said it lends itself more readily to being a metaphor than "three days and three nights".

Why would one use literal numbers if something is metaphorical? As I said if we're talking about something poetic we might use all sorts of metaphors, when we're talking about a map we can say "this is Main St" when "this" is actually a line on a map. But if we're talking about literal objective concepts it seems less likely they are intended as metaphorical analogies or descriptive prose, just as when we go to the restaurant we might regard the menu description of "delicious, succulent chicken chunks" as containing a degree of artistic license but the bit that says $7 is an objective statement of the price. We might disagree that the chicken is succulent or delicious, but the price of $7 doesn't mean $5, it doesn't mean $8.99, it means $7. We might disagree regarding the description of the dinner but we'd probably have a bigger complaint if the bill came and the chicken was charged at $14.99 on the basis that the price wasn't intended to mean seven literal dollars.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Except I don't think I did say that "this is my body" is obviously a metaphor, I said it lends itself more readily to being a metaphor than "three days and three nights".

Why would one use literal numbers if something is metaphorical? As I said if we're talking about something poetic we might use all sorts of metaphors, when we're talking about a map we can say "this is Main St" when "this" is actually a line on a map. But if we're talking about literal objective concepts it seems less likely they are intended as metaphorical analogies or descriptive prose, just as when we go to the restaurant we might regard the menu description of "delicious, succulent chicken chunks" as containing a degree of artistic license but the bit that says $7 is an objective statement of the price. We might disagree that the chicken is succulent or delicious, but the price of $7 doesn't mean $5, it doesn't mean $8.99, it means $7. We might disagree regarding the description of the dinner but we'd probably have a bigger complaint if the bill came and the chicken was charged at $14.99 on the basis that the price wasn't intended to mean seven literal dollars.

Surely "for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (NASB) is simile, right?

 

[visionary]

Simile... Yeah.. that is why Yeshua made it His Proof.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Simile... Yeah.. that is why Yeshua made it His Proof.

It's not proof, Matthew 12:39-40 And answering, he said to them: "An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. But a sign will not be given to it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. (40) For just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. It's meant for an evil and an adulterous generation who rejected him and his message so that in the end his message was sent to the gentiles who responded with repentance. That's the story of Jonah. A man who ran away because he was called by God to call Gentiles to repentance and he would rather see them be killed than see them repent. The Lord Jesus Christ didn't run away, as did disobedient Jonah, he preached to the house of Israel and they rejected him. The sign of Jonah is only about being in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights and the Son of man being in the "heart of the earth for three days and three nights" it is also about the Ninevites as saint Luke says in his gospel (Luke 11:29-30).

Jonah 1:17-2:10 And the LORD appointed a great fish to swallow up Jonah; and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. (2:1) Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the belly of the fish, (2) saying, "I called to the LORD, out of my distress, and he answered me; out of the belly of hell I cried, and thou didst hear my voice. (3) For thou didst cast me into the deep, into the heart of the seas, and the flood was round about me; all thy waves and thy billows passed over me. (4) Then I said, 'I am cast out from thy presence; how shall I again look upon thy holy temple?' (5) The waters closed in over me, the deep was round about me; weeds were wrapped about my head (6) at the roots of the mountains. I went down to the land whose bars closed upon me for ever; yet thou didst bring up my life from the Pit, O LORD my God. (7) When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the LORD; and my prayer came to thee, into thy holy temple. (8) Those who pay regard to vain idols forsake their true loyalty. (9) But I with the voice of thanksgiving will sacrifice to thee; what I have vowed I will pay. Deliverance belongs to the LORD!" (10) And the LORD spoke to the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

And consider carefully how saint Luke relates the same sign saying Luke 11:29-30 Then, as the crowds were quickly gathering, he began to say: "This generation is a wicked generation: it seeks a sign. But no sign will be given to it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. (30) For just as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of man be to this generation. No mention of three days and three nights in saint Luke's account of the sign of the prophet Jonah. Neither saint John nor saint Mark make mention of "the sign of the prophet Jonah" in their accounts nor is the specific mention of "three days and three nights" see in any passage of the new covenant scriptures except in saint Matthew's account. So why is the "three days and three nights" so central to the account of the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord in your theology when it is so notably absent from the theology of the new covenant writers and the early Church and Christians in general for the past two thousand years (with the exception of a few in post Protestant revolt times)?

 

[visionary]

Sign... proof...

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sign... proof...

seems more like a reference to the story of Jonah than something important to prove Jesus' identity and/or qualifications.